June 1st XP changes

[-Notorious-]

I'm confused.

If we lower the rates on Ragnaros and Deathwing, what would be the purpose of making a new x1 realm...

It just seems weird to lower the rates on current LK realms, but then launch Lordaeron which will basically be the same (but with all new characters)

[Mortos]

another thingy is, you say "blizzlike experiance" well then remove the Marketplace and unneccessary features wich blizzard is not offering.
.

Statements like these have been getting me angry for a while, and I have been waiting for a staff member to put the poster in his place, but I see the staff really has become kind, inclusive and tolerant to (even) the ignorant members of the community. I realize staff leniency is part of a new mandate to improve staff-community relations, and I must commend you for this new initiative in "customer" service.

I, however, have no such mandate.

So, to all of you *****s that are calling for the removal of the marketplace, all of you stupid fools who are calling it un-blizzlike or unnecessary, I tell you this: Pull your thick, brown-covered head out of your rectum.

Do you work for free? Would you spend hours daily plying your trade, the skills that you have labored to master, expecting little or no compensation for your work? Warmane is being run on donations. Donations! And no matter how generous and sharing human beings are they are almost universally opposed to giving something for nothing. People who donate want something for their charity and, since most people only care about gear, there is going to be gear in the marketplace, period. If you don't like that fact, tough. Grumble about it to your mother, or girlfriend, or someone else that cares. Do NOT deface our beloved forums with your stupid, senseless, ignorant, empty and repugnant sewage of an comment! It only proves that you have nothing upstairs, and that that space is getting smaller.

If I were a staff member (and thank The Light I am not!) I would disable the marketplace for you, and only for you, and impose a monthly fee for you instead. That would be more "Blizzlike" would it not?

Imbecile!

[Orthros]

We have discussed this topic to sickness. There are already plenty threads with your SAME comments good/bad reasons over and over. Please, take a look to this thread and this other one before you post the same stuff again and again. -.-

So far the user opinions can be categorized in one of those:

1.) Fixed realm rates for all.
1.a.) Lower the rates (appeases low rate seeking players, but considerably displeases high rate seeking ones)
1.b.) Leave high rates (appeases high rate seeking players, but displeases low rate seeking ones)
2.) Allow players to customize their personal Exp./Rep./Prof. rate (appeases both high and +/- low rate seeking players)
3.) Have differential/variable rates for realms of a given expansion (i.e., like it was before the molt-down)

You can vote your preference following the option numbers. I think the preliminary results of these polls and the user posts from this and the million other threads on the topic already leave the user view-points more than clear and further discussion would not bring anything new to this topic. Now is the turn of Warmane to parse our feedback and decide what they think is best for the server. Lets have a bit of COMMON SENSE PLEASE!

[Castledawg]

You can vote your preference following the option numbers.

No no, no no no.

We can also present our own options, assign our own identifying markers as we please, and ignore your silly little list.

As if you know what would appease who. Lol the nerve of some people.

"Mommy, I want ice cream."
"No, no son, here: have a pomegranate."
"But I don't wanna pomegranate!"
"Well there's no ice cream, so try to enjoy it."
"Waaaaaaa!!!!" (cries, tastes pomegranate) "Mmm, this is tasty..."

Make a deduction.

[Harai]

No no, no no no.

We can also present our own options, assign our own identifying markers as we please, and ignore your silly little list.

As if you know what would appease who. Lol the nerve of some people.

"Mommy, I want ice cream."
"No, no son, here: have a pomegranate."
"But I don't wanna pomegranate!"
"Well there's no ice cream, so try to enjoy it."
"Waaaaaaa!!!!" (cries, tastes pomegranate) "Mmm, this is tasty..."

Make a deduction.

Well being honest the majority of us already tasted the pomegranate, but we still prefer the ice cream, some even ate so much pomegranate that we simply became sick of it

Enough of metaphores. Tell me a real good reason to, even with Lordaeron launching, ALL the servers being transformed into 1x rates, then we can talk

[tronchon]

profession leveling rate, reputation rate will be set to 100%. Gold rate will be x3 to slow down inflation while still providing enough gold to keep up with x7 experience rates.

this is exactly what I wanted to know, thank you kaer for the clear answer

[Ashmir]

Profession and reputation rates will be lowered to standard..

This is very disappointing. I agree almost 100% with these two people:

Anytime they lower the rates, the same thing happens...a lot of people leave. Reputation rate especially should never be set to 1x since most factions don't have enough quests to get exalted even on 7x, and a lot of factions don't have tabards. And lowering gold rate is going to do nothing but bring more gold beggers...and we already have a TON of those. Guess it will finally be my time to go somewhere else if I can't even get rep or farm gold anymore. Not everybody can sit on WoW every minute of every day in order to accomplish what they need to do.

I'm confused.

If we lower the rates on Ragnaros and Deathwing, what would be the purpose of making a new x1 realm...

It just seems weird to lower the rates on current LK realms, but then launch Lordaeron which will basically be the same (but with all new characters)

As I said, I agree with these two people.

I just don't get why you guys keep messing with a product that works REALLY well. You had a nice setup before where people could pick a pace more suited to them (1x, 5x, 10x options on wotlk, for example). Now, it's standardized. I can handle 7x. It's a little fast in some areas for me, but overall, it works beautifully. If you're introducing a new 1x server, then why mess with the others?

Why mess with gold? You're not going to magically fix the economy over night by changing gold rates. If anything, those with gold will become even more dominant in the market than they are now. Why mess with reputation? It's not like rep gear is anything close to end-game with exception to the ICC ring (in wotlk, anyway). Why mess with professions? Some of them already suck bad enough to level in the first place. They aren't game changing or unbalancing by being able to level them up at the rate (which isn't even 7x lol - it's 5x) they are now. And to put it all together, if you have XP at 7x, but gold at 3x & professions (& rep) at 1x, you're going to progress in a really odd, uneven fashion that will make the entire process of making a new character just plain not fun.

When I read kaer's message yesterday, it almost killed any desire I have for sticking around on this server. I don't care too much about that end-game grind from 5k GS to BiS, but I enjoy making new characters & getting them to that 5k level. I guarantee that I won't make another character if these changes go in. No new characters = eventual boredom = leaving the server = no donation coming from me to you. I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

You may say that you don't care about growing the server or even retaining the population you have, but at the end of the day, you are a business, and not giving the customers what they want (or options, at least, to do what they want) will drive them away. No customers means no money to continue your business. Also, sometimes your business representatives are very crass & rude, coming off very insulting. That's also a poor way to do business. Business representatives pissing off its customers is a good way to lose customers (and potential ones), and we've already established what happens when you lose all your customers.

So go ahead & do whatever it is you want to do since, as one representative has already put it, you're going to do anyway & nothing we say or want matters. I thank you for providing this free service. With what's happened in the past 6 months, I'm very glad I haven't spent any of my money on it.

[Orthros]

We can also present our own options, assign our own identifying markers as we please, and ignore your silly little list.

The silly little list is credited to more than one user with the capabilities and the will to read a lot of related posts (e.g, 1, 2, etc) and make a sound logical analysis of them. Judging the depth of your answer, I wonder how far between those two lies the point that marks the limit of your understanding. Leaving any disagreement aside, it is meant to help us structure objectively all the scatter/subjective comments about this topic.

So far the user opinions can be categorized in one of those:

1.) Fixed realm rates for all.
1.a.) Lower the rates (appeases low rate seeking players, but considerably displeases high rate seeking ones)
1.b.) Leave high rates (appeases high rate seeking players, but displeases low rate seeking ones)
2.) Allow players to customize their personal Exp./Rep./Prof. rate (appeases both high and +/- low rate seeking players)
3.) Have differential/variable rates for realms of a given expansion (i.e., like it was before the molt-down)

You can vote your preference following the option numbers.

Just for the sake of argument:

- Do you think any of these statements are not correct? Why?
- Do you think a concept posted by any user is not included in this list? (e.g., Customizable Realm Rates is the concept and details like the rate factors its implementation/parametrization details) Which one (formalize it)?

Summary, experience rates will remain x7 on all realms for the time being. Profession and reputation rates will be lowered to standard. Gold rate will be x3 to slow down inflation while still providing enough gold to keep up with x7 experience rates.

It really beats me how from all the discussed ideas presented in the threads/polls above you decide to implement this particular fixed realm rates solution. Nedless to say you did not mention any details for the current/future realm drop rates. In general, I would have favored a more balanced approach, for example:

- Users can set/change their own Experience/Reputation/Profession rates to one of these values: 1x,3x,5x,7x.
- Universal 5x Gold rate for all expansions.
- Universal [Poor/Common 5x,Uncommon/Rare 3x,Epic/Legendary 1x] Drop rates for all expansions.

Of course, this suggestion is valid for any other equivalent parametrization of the Customizable Realm Rates concept. However, it is not my decision to make and I truly hope the one you will implement proves successful as well.

This is very disappointing.

I feel you. When I think about it the spot of the running gazelle comes to mind, with the irony that Warmane's logo is actually a lion. Maybe you are right and it is time to consider a change of platform. Best wishes!

[Mortos]

Sorry Castledawg, you're taking too long to respond and I have a fire in my belly.

Before I begin, I must note how ironic it is for a person so seemingly disgusted by the perpetuation of a familiar argument with "the same comments over and over" to contribute to that argument a quote of his own recycled ideas.

Similarly amusing is this:

I wonder how far between those two lies the point that marks the limit of your understanding.

Since this is exactly the question asked you, Orthos, by Castledawg in his last post.

You haughtily proclaim that you've made some detailed analysis of the community's desires, yet you are, in fact, just as clueless as the rest of us.

You present your silly little list in such an obviously biased manner so that you can tout your personal opinions as some inevitable logical conclusion. But you ignore one fundamental flaw, Orthos, and though you took offence when Castledawg pointed it out, it still hasn't gone away.

You have no idea what would appease the community. You can't even speak for yourself.

Who, pray tell, do the current x7 rates appease? High rate seeking players? Low rate seekers? Everyone? No one? And suppose the rates were increased to x80? Or lowered to x0.5? Who, then, would be appeased? You fool.

You can't possibly know the answer to those questions, yet you pretend to have analyzed the data, dotted all the I's and crossed all the t's and logically concluded that the best option is what you think you want.

Well, you can go ahead and dwell in your fantasy but don't presume to attempt to deceive us, the community, with your "I Robot" disposition. We are quite capable of thinking for ourselves.

[Orthros]

We are quite capable of thinking for ourselves.

Prove it:

- Do you think any of these statements are not correct? Which ones (quote them literally)? Why?
- Do you think a concept posted by any user is not included in this list? (e.g., Customizable Realm Rates is the concept and details like the rate factors its implementation/parametrization details) Which one (formalize it)?

Taking most of the user responses from related threads [1,2,3,4], the general opinions can be categorized in one of those:

1.) Fixed realm rates for all.
1.a.) Lower the rates (appeases low rate seeking players, but considerably displeases high rate seeking ones)
1.b.) Leave high rates (appeases high rate seeking players, but displeases low rate seeking ones)
2.) Allow players to customize their personal Exp./Rep./Prof. rate (appeases both high and +/- low rate seeking players)
3.) Have differential/variable rates for realms of a given expansion (i.e., like it was before the molt-down)

Regarding the flaw you rampage about with such poor eloquence, it is really a no-brainer: the use of appease in those one-liners is just to reflect an expectation strictly derived from the user posts themselves plus some basic first-order logic (e.g., someone complains wanting to have higher experience realm rates, therefore it is reasonable to expect he/she will react positively if Warmane sets higher factor/values than the current ones for that particular rate). Does any of these one-line statements describe the complexity of human behavior: no.

Keep in mind that the list quoted above is not exclusively my doing, but it is the result from the contribution of a handful of users and several weeks of discussion on this topic (ref. read the threads, it is clear there how it becomes what it is now).

[Harai]

Tell me a real good reason to, even with Lordaeron launching, ALL the servers being transformed into 1x rates, then we can talk

No one answered yet

[Stellarcrusade]

Omg, why is there such a natural desire by server admins to sabotage their own servers. Lets make our players spend as much time as possible doing the boring parts of the game, so they will not have as much time to have fun. 100% rep and professions is basically saying, welp whatever your profession and reps are at now, thats where they stay, because you'll get bored and quit server if you try to level them up anymore. Its just putting a cap on new players is all, just as easily if you had closed new account registration. For existing accounts you are saying well those who have time to play all day and have everything maxed (the people who also do not have jobs and do not donate) are unfairly advantaged over those who only play after work (those who donate). Lets see how donations and new player retention rates go now, make sure to watch them, they will go down dramatically.

The same goes for farming gold, if players spend all day farming gold, they will get bored and hang themselves.

[Virtualcrack]

The rates of the existing realms will likely not be changing in the near future.

I agree Edifice. No need to change xp rates. And gold drops and item drops are good if anything low drops
Rare elites only drop 1-3 gold per that's it no other rewards. This seems real low of item drops on harder mobs.

[tronchon]

We have discussed this topic to sickness. There are already plenty threads with your SAME comments good/bad reasons over and over. Please, take a look to this thread and this other one before you post the same stuff again and again. -.-

guys, we can argue terabytes about the pros and cons, but any community opinion is ultimately irrelevant.

as clearly stated by Sapphire, the staff will do whatever the staff will do

...It does not require any sort of majority to want such a realm. It only requires enough to make it relevant. Obviously there is enough interest, else we wouldn't have Lordaeron in a test state at the moment. Also, whether or not there is such a realm is strictly up to the staff. The factors that are taken into regard when opening or closing any realm, be it 1x or otherwise, is solely at the discretion of the staff.

I just don't get why you guys keep messing with a product that works REALLY well.....

You may say that you don't care about growing the server or even retaining the population you have, but at the end of the day, you are a business, and not giving the customers what they want (or options, at least, to do what they want) will drive them away. No customers means no money to continue your business. Also, sometimes your business representatives are very crass & rude, coming off very insulting. That's also a poor way to do business. Business representatives pissing off its customers is a good way to lose customers (and potential ones), and we've already established what happens when you lose all your customers.

So go ahead & do whatever it is you want to do since, as one representative has already put it, you're going to do anyway & nothing we say or want matters. I thank you for providing this free service. With what's happened in the past 6 months, I'm very glad I haven't spent any of my money on it.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, that warmane is - at the end of the day - an organization that has products and customers.

But as I mentioned before, any customer input is ultimately irrelevant for the staff

The factors that are taken into regard when opening or closing any realm, be it 1x or otherwise, is solely at the discretion of the staff.

[Stellarcrusade]

When I sit here asking myself what change would most make me finally leave for another server (like many are asking when reading threads about changes to the most important part of server - the rates), I find it hard to quantify. This is because When I chose this server it was completely based on 2 facts: 1.) there was a 20x server, and 2.) there were lots of players on that server. Since then (not too long ago), the server changed down to something like 10x, then moltdown it went to 7x, and now proposed changes to drop it again (albiet only gold/rep/drops at this time), makes me think that I shouldn't pay attention to what I can put up with but that the staff keep making the server worse and worse and worse and eventually it'll be -5x where everytime you do anything you go down in level, and money comes out of your bag instead of into it. (yes thats an exaggeration). Point is, many of us signed up for 20x and staff is obviously shooting for 1x. What a waste of a good server.

Players choose server based on rates, commit thier time and energy based soley on that. Its a contract between server and players that should never be broken.