Who got motivated to farm honor for transmogs now? Let's take a look at how motivating it REALLY is. Let's start by looking at the formula.
Interesting formula. Let's do a few test-runs with it!
An average player likes to transmog these slots at least:
Head, shoulder, chest, legs, feet, belt and weapons. That's between 7 - 10 slots depending on what class/specc you run (eg. 1 weapon, 2 weapons, 2 weapons + shield, 3 weapons + shield (such as fury warrior)).
Testrun 1.
A player who likes to do 2v2/3v3/SOLOQ and is stuck at 1500 rating. Let's assume he still magically wins every game and give him the highest possible honor for a game. Even though we all know this isn't the case and this example already favors the players' honor gain massively.
0,135 x 1500 = ~200 honor per game.
20.000 honor for 1 slot.
20.000 / 200 = 100 games for 1 item slot.
100 games at 1500 x 7-10 slots = 700-1000 games for for 1 full transmog set at 1500 rating.
Better not mistake the transmogs you choose!
Testrun 2.
A player who likes to do 2v2/3v3/SOLOQ and is thriving at the highest rating. Let's take a look how it is at the top of 2v2/3v3/SOLOQ at this point, the end phase of the season with roughly 1 more month to go.
2V2 LADDER STATUS:
3V3 LADDER STATUS:
SOLOQ LADDER STATUS:
The highest rating found is 2645 in the SOLOQ bracket with a score of 161-26
Let's make it easy and assume he had his honor from scratch already calculated with 2645 rating in mind and he won all games. Even though we all know this isn't the case and this example already favors the players' honor gain massively.
0,135 x 2645 = 357 honor per game.
20.000 honor for 1 slot.
20.000/357 = 56 games for 1 slot.
56 games at 2645 rating x 7-10 slots = 392-560 games for 1 full transmog set at 2645 rating.
Now let's look at games played at the top of ladder by averaging out the amount of games played (won + loss) in the 2v2/3v3/SOLOQ bracket.
2v2: 109+5 = 114 games played and sitting rank 1
3v3: 100+20 = 120 games played and sitting at rank 1
SOLOQ: 161+26 = 187 games played and sitting at rank 1
114+120+187= 421/3 = ~ 140 games played on average for a rank 1 player.
Congratulations. It is the END OF THE SEASON and you obtained roughly 2 transmog slots and are nearing your third!
Now let's assume you are rank 1 in 2v2, 3v3 and SOLOQ ALL TOGETHER.
Congratulations IF YOU'RE A CASTER WITH 1 WEAPON: you've obtained your first full transmog set. Better not change your mind about what transmog you wanna wear!
Sorry anyone with a shield+one hander or more , you still have a few miles to go!
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Now we got settled out just how MOTIVATING this must be, let's not forget the donators.
In the past people paid between 10-60 euros for any kind of donation. From a title, a donator set, free WF on 1 character, free WF on all characters to VIP. Obviously they did so to gain an advantage. Yet still the money kept the server alive.
Currently everyone has that same gear and the staff needs a new way to gain revenue, to milk the ol' cow. Understandable after such a generous act to give free WF to everyone who doesn't have the money. The staff still needs to pay the server and ofcourse... there salaries.
Ow, about that:
Roughly 3000 dollar for a good programmer, if I recall the latest job opening.
Not rough at all for the 50% of the playerbase living in eastern-europe earning approximaly 400-600 euro a month.
But you MUST be that one serbian/russian guy who dgaf, decides not to buy bread this week and go donate!
...Except that donators who before donated for that exact same privilege are currently emptyhanded, hoping to get in good graces with the staff.... For 10% bonus honor per win (if they're lucky), a limited edition transmog set you might not like and you STILL have to farm tokens for, or... a thank you for paying their salaries.
Or you could ofcourse make the same mistake TWICE and donate AGAIN roughly 30-40 euro for 1 FULL TRANSMOG SET that doesn't even unlock it permanently...
and then BE HAPPY, cause YOU SHOWED EM! ...
Untill the staff decides they going for a new course, and you just wasted 30-40 euros for hot air.
Now really HOW can i NOT be HAPPY about THIS?
REALLY.
HOW?!
But then again, transmogs are really NOT that important, are they? They after all do NOTHING for the actual stats I play.
Cause CLEARLY that's ALL that people care about. Cause there's obviously NO reason people are motivated to play more when they look cool.
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PLEASE let us know how motivated YOU are by posting below!
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Member
DISCUSSION: The new Honor System
Edited: July 28, 2015
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Member
He said eveything ...
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Member
Just ticking away till this topic gets deleted/I'm getting banned for pointing this out.
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Member
best post i've ever seen in this forum
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Moderator
I'll just touch this part.
Regarding "motivation," it generally comes from a goal. Easy goals give little motivation, hard goals weed out the ones who didn't really want it enough to invest the time and effort to get it. If fighting and grinding to reach your goals of a transmogrification set like this is too much, either you don't care about the prize that much for it to be a goal or you're too lazy to go through it. This change is obviously meant to give people a reason to play and diversify what categories they play it, to get the most points towards their goal. People who want to get it with a click or with just a couple games are obviously going to be discouraged, and that will just make it that much more meaningful for the people who go through it.
Regarding the donation for VIP, that was for AT. There's no AT anymore. Not sure how many times that needs to be said. On top of that, you made full use of all the VIP benefits for however long it was between your donation and the moment AT stopped existing. If AT had closed (as was going to happen) instead of merging, and some AT staff came work here, would you try waving the "I paid for VIP" flag?
People have to stop thinking of Blackrock as "AT under a different name." This is Warmane, not AT. The way Molten donations worked was wildly different than how AT's did. As far as the Tournament servers go, concessions will have to be made on both ends to accommodate both kinds of players in a middle ground, without one side having huge advantages over the other just because in the now-gone AT they had different benefits.
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Member
So what you're basically saying is that by selling the same car with a repaint (aka pre-merg - post-merge) justifies milking that cow AGAIN for full prize money?
Now let's say I respect that decision. Which I really don't. But let's say.
Your post still makes me laugh really hard. Since you either totally missed the part about high rated players at end of season having hardly enough honor to get ANY transmog really..
OR you think lazyness/motivation isn't decided by the rating people play at, but by the amount of games people play.
Quantity over quality.
I bet the cooks at MC Donalds must love you for praizing them making100 burgers/per minute as more motivated than a michellin starred cook making 1 foi gras/per minute.
We're saved, obnoxious is here!
#SOVJETUNION2015
(edit:
By the way: yes I did get my full share out of the VIP. But some people didn't. And not seeing that as for what it is, is just ignorant.)Edited: July 28, 2015
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Moderator
What full prize money? Are you being charged to play? Or does your mouse and keyboard get some sort of lag when you don't have your favorite transmogrification set? Oh my, so it takes a while to get the looks you want, instead of instant gratification... break open the cheese boxes, because here comes the whine!
Seriously, if you think working for a prize like this is too much, you don't deserve it in the first place as far as I'm concerned.
Regarding your edit, perhaps you should start seeing the situation for what it is then, to avoid fitting your own description.
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This thread has been forwarded to Malaco, who said he will reply in a few hours when he gets home. Until then it will remain locked to dam the flood of tears.
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Member
No it makes people farm honor with suicidal double / tripple dps combos for fast arenas.
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Member
I can't deny that this new system is good to make people farm but 20k is a bit too much or maybe the weekly reset should be longer.
Because with this system you have to farm on the same character. I, for example, like to play on different characters. I will never be able to get a transmog by doing so but it doesn't mean that I won't play a lot.
What you have to understand Malaco (and I think that this is the point of view of a lot of people) is that the new system is good but the price of the rewards are a little too high.
For another point I am VIP and I'm okay if we don't get advantages compared to non donator people, I enjoyed my VIP enough. The reward system is the most important thing, full gear for everyone is a good thing.
Keep it up everything isn't bad it just needs some changes ! :)
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Banned
Would it be possible to add an (expensive) option to actually 'buy' a Transmog so that you won`t have to spend any more tokens to use it in the future?
(currently you can only 'rent' Transmogs; you`ll forfeit your token when you un- or remog it)
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Member
ah nice.. and is that really all we get? 1 transmog set?
i expected atleast reduced prize of tokens for vip accounts.. is that really too much ? did i donate 60 euros for teleport command?
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Member
I don't understand why should everyone have transmogs ? Before solo queue, some of the transmogs required 2.4k in 3s. I don't recall seeing the entire server with Sunwell transmogs or t3. And yeah, you might say "But oh, we have already unlocked these". Well, they are still unlocked. And it's not only you and me that has lost their cool (personal preference) looking characters, but the entire server.
Anyway, Malaco, please reconsider the honor wipe.
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Member
How's this for a fix (from a private discussion, copy/pasting):
Current system for honor gain:
2v2/3v3/soloqueue - 0.135*current rating = honor gain.
We incorporate the following system into the algorithm, using this site as a starting point:
http://www.arenapointscalculator.com/
We add these algorhytms to the honor gain formula. If it is doable.
3 EXAMPLES (for 2v2 @ 1500/1800/2200 rating, plus examples for how it works in 3v3 and soloqueue, don't be bad at math please as I won't be going too in-depth in something simple like this):
2v2 @ 1500 rating honor gain:
Currently it is like this - 1500*0.135 = 202.5 points per game on 1500 rating.
Add this coefficient to the formula:
1500 rating in 2v2 = 261 arena points. 261/1500 = 0.174 coefficient.
1500 rating 2v2 honor gain formula - (0.135 + 0.135*0.174)*current rating(1500 rating) = 237.735 honor points per win on 1500 with formula.
Without formula: 202.5 honor points.
1800 2v2 with formula:
1800 rating in 2v2 = 578 arena points. 578/1800 = 0.321 coefficient.
1800 rating 2v2 honor gain formula - (0.135 + 0.135*0.321)*1800 = 321 honor points per win with formula.
Without formula: 243 honor points.
2200: With formula - 427,275. Without formula - 297.
FOR 3V3 it is the same, except the coefficient is higher, because you gain more arena points in 3v3. Example of coefficient difference on 1800 2v2/3v3 rating:
1800 2v2 coefficient: 0.321
1800 3v3 coefficient: 0.371
1800 soloqueue coef: (0.321 + 0.371)/2 = 0.346
So it scales according to the bracket as well.
Well, I hope this helps.
Also, important that the system does NOT function at below 1500 rating range as it then punishes people who can't climb above 1500. But it is favorable at all ratings above 1500, and the higher you go, the better off you are. You still need to play loads of games to get transmogs.
@staff, thanks for the forum unban, appreciate it.
EDIT: Further thoughts: to promote 3v3, perhaps include an increase of 3/2 over the current honor gain because you have 3/2 more players than in 2v2 and thus it is harder to play in such teams and it will increase 3v3 activity by a lot, seeing as how you'll be getting 3/2 more honor points BEFORE the coef. calculations :)
Essentially if you are on 1800 rating currently in 3v3, you get before any modifications:
0.135*1800 = 243 honor points.
With coef. system implemented you get
[0.135 + 0.135*(669/1800)]*1800 = 0.185175*1800 = 333.315 honor points.
Short clarification - 669 are the arena points you get at 1800 rating in the 3v3 bracket. 669/1800 is the coefficient (0.371) which gets added to the formula on 1800 3v3 so you get more points, it depends on the bracket as well.
With coef. system AND 3/2 more honor points implemented to stimulate 3v3 you get:
{[0.135 + 0.135*(669/1800)]*1800}*3/2 = 499.972, erh, 500 honor points in 3v3 and only in 3v3.
This does not apply for solo queue calculations, the 3/2 multiplication.Edited: July 29, 2015
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Banned
Like the Pirate or Mexican ones?
Hm. Isn`t there a bitflag for the donation sets (not the fun ones; like the heroic T10 ones that you cannot 'premade') which will allow you to use those free of charge, couldn`t you just expand on that system and set the a flag for each item that you`ve unlocked persistently?
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Member
I am not a programmer at all, but I suppose what you could do is work with unlock system wherein every possible transmog item from the transmog npc gets just a another lock on it. Similar to the one that requires you to buy a token and similar to the one that requires you to have specific rating requirements. This third lock will recognise the player's account name, character name or a code assigned to each player's account/character and then links that information to the item ID of that particular item. Once it has been linked it will overwrite the first lock (to have a token) to use that transmog.
So a lock system that works roughly like:
Step 1. If the player has a token, the token lock is automatically removed on all possible transmog id's. This is currently the case. Then proceed to:
Step 2. If the player has a specific rating requirement, the rating lock is automatically removed on all possible transmog id's that have this requirement. Then proceed to:
Step 3. If the player chooses a transmog, store that particular item ID to a code that is assigned to that particular player. Presumably their account name (if you want account wide unlock), the character name (only doable if you can no longer change names ingame), or a code you linked to each character at this point that doesn't change on name swap. Then proceed to:
Step 4. If particular item ID is assigned to particular player tag (account name, char name, player code), remove lock 1+2 for item ID.
Something like this I assume. I am again no programmer, but I suppose something in this direction?
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