Weekly honor and Transmog [info]

[Judgelawlx]

Having a purpose and putting effort in obtaining something is motivating. That's the theory and that seems to be the case.

But the amount of effort you have to do in comparison for what you actually get for it is a difficult thing to decide upon.

Most obvious tell is to simply look at your population, the people you are theorycrafting about how motivated they must be about it.

Yet all I see is about 9 in 10 people saying how awful the new requirements are. Not that the idea of having a purpose and putting effort into it is wrong, just merely the amount that is required.

All I see is staff members fencing it back saying "more effort is being more unique" as if they want to say: DONT YOU GET IT?

The problem is: apparently you dont. Because the majority people that actually PLAY this server are giving you a CLEAR SIGN that being unique is apparently not their main concern. Or that for them playing 1-2 hours a day max. is pushing it for them. Something that you seem to have a hard time fitting in your skulls.

To top it all off, staff seems to make a lazy-*** case in fending their idea off by putting people in two camps. You are either with them (and "get it") or you're not, and you MUST be lazy if this amount of effort wasn't enough.

With that argument you might as well ask 100.000 honor for every token. What's the differece, right? Either way it's pretty much a no-go for everyone that plays here except for a handful.

Not only are you insulting AT LEAST half the population here. you are also insulting every donator that actually decided to not put ANY effort in it whatsoever, and simply pay money for it.

The same people that Malaco told me gave this server a nice money boost in the last few days.

Good job, keep writing replies that totally miss the purpose.

Edit:

If this picture doesn't scream EFFORT =MOTIVATION I don't know WHAT will!




Welcome back to vanilla WoW, where you are rewarded for joining an awful lot of games. And by awful I really do mean awful.

Cause there's nothing more motivating than see others waste all their spare time to get something that was easily obtainable at first, but has since turned to be neigh impossible.

But hey, let's all be happy. We all got free gear after all!

Edit:

Even blizzard understood this when they introduced TBC and WOTLK. And you're talking about the company that invented ****ing CATACLYSM and PANDA's as a new race.

[ssoro]

obnoxious, i never wrote anything about only good enough players deserving transmogs, and regardless; what you wrote doesnt justify the harm this does to blackrock
as for your second paragraph, i never said the old transmog system was perfect

personally, from the point of view of a player who in fact does play on blackrock, and does care about the look of his characters, i would recommend to first of all put the npc back to its original state, as the way it was at least wasnt demotivating people to play
and as a way of increasing the motivation, i would either add arena transmogs/simply lower all the requirements, or give all transmogs for free, resulting in:

- players who dont care about how their characters look like chriiz and shinta still wouldnt care=> no downside
- players who dont play on blackrock like obnoxious still wouldnt care either=> no downside
- players who do play on blackrock and do care about how their characters look would be satisfied=> upside

a change providing 0 downsides and yet 1 upside would in fact be helpful to blackrock

[Judgelawlx]

Assumption of this staff is that cause I object I must be lazy.

The biggest problem is not me being unable to do the required games per week. I have no problem with doing 40-50 games a week for a few weeks.

I did about 40-50 games just today.

Problem is that after a specific amount of rating obtained, that 40-50 games required for your next XMOG is just not reasonable anymore.

10 games starting at 2000 rating are about equal to 50 games starting from 1500 rate. Cause people at high rate got much more to lose + games take longer + require a lot more skill effort to win.

ps. not even mentioning yet people that unlike me actually got a lot less time to spent or play classes that take more time to win games with. Are you writing all that off just for a select few to be exclusive?

Hows that motivating and getting people to come here? In my book that only scares people away.

Unless you are that one person who thinks that doing 100 push-ups is more motivating (cause of effort) than doing 10 push-ups to get the reward you want. I'm pretty sure most people would disagree with you.

The best is to find a balance between what is reasonable effort for what you actually get and what people are willing to do for it. At this moment staff isn't looking for such balance it seems, merely looking for more push-ups the better

[Obnoxious]

obnoxious, i never wrote anything about only good enough players deserving transmogs, and regardless; what you wrote doesnt justify the harm this does to blackrock
as for your second paragraph, i never said the old transmog system was perfect

personally, from the point of view of a player who in fact does play on blackrock, and does care about the look of his characters, i would recommend to first of all put the npc back to its original state, as the way it was at least wasnt demotivating people to play
and as a way of increasing the motivation, i would either add arena transmogs/simply lower all the requirements, or give all transmogs for free, resulting in:

- players who dont care about how their characters look like chriiz and shinta still wouldnt care=> no downside
- players who dont play on blackrock like obnoxious still wouldnt care either=> no downside
- players who do play on blackrock and do care about how their characters look would be satisfied=> upside

a change providing 0 downsides and yet 1 upside would in fact be helpful to blackrock

But when you say that "unreasonably low-skilled players" shouldn't get them from being active you're pretty much saying they don't deserve it, and based on something either subjective (what's "good skill"?) or based on some in game rank that either would have a very low standard (to allow the most players to get it) or have the effect I mentioned (where the "elite" gets it).

Regarding your division in three kinds, without going into analyzing each, the only thing you want to remove from the equation is exactly what Malaco seems to want to introduce: effort to achieve a goal - and not a "one-day rush" kind of effort.

The three groups I see are more like:

- players who don't play on Blackrock and people who do but don't care about looks;
- players who play on Blackrock, care about their looks, and see it as a challenge to get the look they want now;
- players who play on Blackrock, care about their looks, but want instant or very easy gratification, having huge issues with the possibility of not getting what they want, when they want, the way they want.

[typek667]

- players who play on Blackrock, care about their looks, and see it as a challenge to get the look they want now;
- players who play on Blackrock, care about their looks, but want instant or very easy gratification, having huge issues with the possibility of not getting what they want, when they want, the way they want.

literary made me sad how black & white your thinking is

[Judgelawlx]

Yep. And their arguments are full with illogicalities too.

The tone of this entire discussion went an unexpected turn a few pages ago.

When people started realizing coming up with better solutions is a step too far. First we have to explain staff how obvious their mistakes are.

Which seems to be impossible since staff doesn't want to see eye-to-eye.

Again, effort is not the issue here. People are willing to do the effort. And they are motivated to do the effort. Unlike what staff thinks that people want everything the lazy way. As if people don't know that working for something is more gratifying.

Staff fails to acknowledge that there are multiple ways to satisfy effort. And the current system doesn't satisfy it at all.

Not to even mention the amount of time people like me and many others have spent to reason with staff in present and past. And for what really? Getting shot down on basically every turn yet still using these discussions as nice intel.
Haven't received single thank you, positive feedback or gesture in form of implementation of ideas/points/coins in ANY way.

Giving players that come with ideas the feeling they don't know whats well. Even though they are actuality spokesmen for public as they play this realm WAAY more, talking with WAAY more people than the staff does.

But hey, why take them serious. They are only bloodsucking leaches that only think about themselves and can't see past that.

How ignorant can a staff be.

[ssoro]

But when you say that "unreasonably low-skilled players" shouldn't get them from being active you're pretty much saying they don't deserve it, and based on something either subjective (what's "good skill"?) or based on some in game rank that either would have a very low standard (to allow the most players to get it) or have the effect I mentioned (where the "elite" gets it).

Regarding your division in three kinds, without going into analyzing each, the only thing you want to remove from the equation is exactly what Malaco seems to want to introduce: effort to achieve a goal - and not a "one-day rush" kind of effort.

The three groups I see are more like:

- players who don't play on Blackrock and people who do but don't care about looks;
- players who play on Blackrock, care about their looks, and see it as a challenge to get the look they want now;
- players who play on Blackrock, care about their looks, but want instant or very easy gratification, having huge issues with the possibility of not getting what they want, when they want, the way they want.

first of all the S7 transmog was free along with a few other pieces as simply queuing for a single arena game with a fresh new character was providing those, this alrdy showcases how it isnt true that only good enough players could obtain transmogs
the second and most important point being of the variety of arena achievement requirement options that were available to all different ranges of skill level, a point as i described which could definitely be improved tho, that is true

whats is "good skill" in wotlk is not a subjective subject as far as comparing ratings of 500-1000 differences goes, which is why the input of a pve/pvp blizzlike farming player who hasnt ever even played on blackrock is not relevent here

no offense, the temper that might seem to start being slightly lost even by active posters which are usually able to bring their objective input calmly is a thing explained because of the disrespect and lack of professionalism showcased toward the community of this tournament realm by the owners who literally keep attemptting to justify destructive decisions by ignorance
a reaction justified by those community members from witnessing how warmane is not cooperating regardless of efforts put in to make such a thing happen, which i truly hope we can get past eventually, before it is too late^^

[Judgelawlx]

^ I agree

And by the way I am done with this discussion. I think pretty much everything has been said. It's sad if it doesn't take. Let me know once staff is ready to talk about changes that ask REAL effort + motivate people to get the transmogs (+ new rewards) they want.

Not going to discuss any further why current requirements are obviously flawed.

Especially with people that haven't even reached high rating and don't know dynamic of amount of games played in low and high rated arena.

Good luck getting people at top 50 to play another 500-1000 games to get their transmogs when at end of season they played maybe 150 games TOPS.

[Obnoxious]

first of all the S7 transmog was free along with a few other pieces as simply queuing for a single arena game with a fresh new character was providing those, this alrdy showcases how it isnt true that only good enough players could obtain transmogs
the second and most important point being of the variety of arena achievement requirement options that were available to all different ranges of skill level, a point as i described which could definitely be improved tho, that is true

whats is "good skill" in wotlk is not a subjective subject as far as comparing ratings of 500-1000 differences goes, which is why the input of a pve/pvp blizzlike farming player who hasnt ever even played on blackrock is not relevent here

no offense, the temper that might seem to start being slightly lost even by active posters which are usually able to bring their objective input calmly is a thing explained because of the disrespect and lack of professionalism showcased toward the community of this tournament realm by the owners who literally keep attemptting to justify destructive decisions by ignorance
a reaction justified by those community members from witnessing how warmane is not cooperating regardless of efforts put in to make such a thing happen, which i truly hope we can get past eventually, before it is too late^^

Yes, it was free. Keyword: was. Past tense.
How it was is also irrelevant in this new system, so saying that what once was didn't divide people by "good enough" and "the rest" is pointless to the here and now.

If you read all I said, I was pretty clear that it being subjective was one option. Try reading the rest of my line too. The fact I never played on Blackrock can in fact give me the objectivity you're lacking. It's an outsider's point of view, which often has the characteristic of looking at a subject without the bias of those involved.

You aren't being too offensive. As long as you can keep being civil, you're fine. This decision wasn't made by me, though, so who you're calling ignorant here is Malaco, not sure if among others or by himself. Resistance to change is normal, but don't lose sight of the big picture and realize that it could possibly happen that the change will come, in full or not, despite your resistance.

[ssoro]

i fail to understand where you are trying to go with your first paragraph, if you imply that it isnt appropriate to compare the new transmog system with the previous one, what is there left to compare? i really dont follow your point there

i read your whole post carefully, but i actually admit that stating the fact you never played on blackrock to lower the value of your opinion was an immature easy argument to bring against you
i dont like to generalize and know your position doesnt make your opinion right or wrong necessarily, yet you are now bringing up the same behavior by implying that your position in fact does strengthen the value of your opinion!

about your last paragraph, what describes "being civil" or not is subjective regarding forum rules which has been proved multiple times here; an unreliable way of applying unclear rules which i personally dont respect since i believe it leads to too many misunderstandings, but well thats not the main subject of discussion here

so yeah i prefer to not put this situation on any specific individual(s), let it be you nor malaco as i am aiming to overall interact with the whole warmane team here
the past 2 years showcased clearly enough how the people in charge of this realm are easily tempted to apply changes regardless of community concerns and i am obvsly aware of that, what is important to acknowledge now is that to this day this way of proceeding hasnt proved to be successful

[chasmire]

I am saddened to see such a great feature go to waste like that. At the moment pratically no one on Blackrock have any transmog equipped, even though they have unlocked the required rating to wear it. I really don't understand why players would need to farm honor on top of having farmed arenas to gain said rating, just to further prove they are "worthy"...

[Obnoxious]

i fail to understand where you are trying to go with your first paragraph, if you imply that it isnt appropriate to compare the new transmog system with the previous one, what is there left to compare? i really dont follow your point there

i read your whole post carefully, but i actually admit that stating the fact you never played on blackrock to lower the value of your opinion was an immature easy argument to bring against you
i dont like to generalize and know your position doesnt make your opinion right or wrong necessarily, yet you are now bringing up the same behavior by implying that your position in fact does strengthen the value of your opinion!

about your last paragraph, what describes "being civil" or not is subjective regarding forum rules which has been proved multiple times here, an unreliable way of applying unclear rules which i personally dont respect since i believe it leads to too many misunderstandings, but yeah thats not the main subject of discussion here

so yeah i prefer to not put this situation on individuals, let it be you nor malaco as i am aiming to overall interact with the whole warmane team here
the past 2 years showcased clearly enough how the people in charge of this realm are easily tempted to apply changes regardless of community concerns and i am obvsly aware of that, what is important to acknowledge now is that to this day this way of proceeding hasnt proved to be successful

The point is this is something new, the old being discarded. You can reminisce about the "good old days" of free transmogrification, but it doesn't works as a basis for something new that is quite different.

Being unbiased indeed can strengthen an opinion. It means I won't sway to a side because it will benefit me, direct or indirectly.

Regarding rules, I can only assume the problem is something individual-based. Considering how few people actually get punished for breaking that kind of rule, statistics would scream that the utmost vast majority of people understand just fine, the problem not resting on the rules or those applying them.

I'm really not sure how many people in the Staff are actually involved in the decisions about Blackrock, but even if Malaco isn't doing them on his own, he's the spokesperson about them just the same.

[ssoro]

your first paragraph is unfortunately not the way blackrock players see it

you totally missed the point about what i wrote regarding generalizing, and then intentionally or not used it to subjectively attempt to strengthen the value of your opinion once more
the point was that the fact someone played or not on blackrock doesnt directly make his opinion the truth
just like i admitted it was the case for tournament realm players with years of experience, i expected you wouldve have the decency to do the same, being a blizzlike realm player who never played on blackrock at all

there will always be someone worst than one in life just like there will always be worst forums than warmane's, but that doesnt justify not improving this far from optimal situation we have with rules here, imo

[valton]

If anything this change has made me want to play less. I can't play 50 games a week so I'm simply not going to.

[Kongconvicti]

If anything this change has made me want to play less. I can't play 50 games a week so I'm simply not going to.

I agree, plus chances are really high that they will change the system again and then the farming becomes totally worthless. what bothers me the most is that changes are made without even informing/asking the community like the icc rings or weapons or the removal of the trinkets. this seems very unprofessional to me so no reason to queue for nothing in the long run.