Lordaeron - buying items for real money. Fake or reality?

[Kelthuzzad]

I support the idea that you must obtain 264 ilvl item in-game by doing raids to be able to donate for 277 ilvl equal item. With this system players will have knowledge for at least normal raid mode. Otherwise there will be bad guys will big pockets who will get priority over less geared people(because it is Warmane and GS > skill) but they might be bad at strategies and general knowledge of wow, class, etc. That will ruin the quality of raids period.
If it will turn out to be different then this realm will be no better that Deathwing and Ragnaros, which just..suck hard. And p2w will live yet again.

Exact what i was gonna say... Have some sort of system so people actually have to have clear the content or obtained an item at a certain ILVL beforehand but i guess that's apart of the you can't donate X before getting Y system which is on the main page of the PTR thread.

IMO, the maximum ilevel available on Coins shop should be 251 or 264 only.

I'd prefer 251...

[Ayame]

Still it kinda ruins the experience if other people who have worked for their gear when ICC is out and you see someone with a full set from donations... Just think that's wrong... I think that's what he ment by hes snobbish comment. Even if we can ignore them and not play with them they affect the population and the server in my opinion. I simply wished that ICC gear was not gonna be apart of the coin shop but i hoped too much i guess... The income from ICC items is too high i suppose or what is the reasoning behind it? I just don't want a Deathwing/Ragnaros 2.0.

If u play in a fixed server with a lot of dev and use high quality machine it's only because some1 here have donate for make all this possible. Don't forget this.

[Kelthuzzad]

If u play in a fixed server with a lot of dev and use high quality machine it's only because some1 here have donate for make all this possible. Don't forget this.

Uh am i suppose to be afraid or what am i suppose to react or learn from your statement? That i should be grateful? This is my opinion and i see that the realms vision is to be a bit more rewarding to actually get raiding gear the real way...

[Obnoxious]

Still it kinda ruins the experience if other people who have worked for their gear when ICC is out and you see someone with a full set from donations... Just think that's wrong... I think that's what he ment by hes snobbish comment. Even if we can ignore them and not play with them they affect the population and the server in my opinion. I simply wished that ICC gear was not gonna be apart of the coin shop but i hoped too much i guess... The income from ICC items is too high i suppose or what is the reasoning behind it? I just don't want a Deathwing/Ragnaros 2.0.

I must be really odd, because my fun and experience getting something (which I wanted to get instead of "buying") doesn't gets ruined in the least because someone else did it in a different way, nor does my experience of playing the game. I could only see it "ruined" if people were able to get stuff I couldn't otherwise get in any other way unless I used real money. Barring that, it's just petty envy. For all you know they are much better at the game than you and have "earned" the items legitimately on multiple characters before, perhaps many time over what you have. Seriously, focus on your fun and don't base it on what you can have "more" than others. Be a special snowflake because you're good and people know it, not because you have some equipment you might as well have been carried to get and "deserve" even less than people who just took a shortcut.

[Mingles]

I must be really odd, because my fun and experience getting something (which I wanted to get instead of "buying") doesn't gets ruined in the least because someone else did it in a different way, nor does my experience of playing the game. I could only see it "ruined" if people were able to get stuff I couldn't otherwise get in any other way unless I used real money. Barring that, it's just petty envy. For all you know they are much better at the game than you and have "earned" the items legitimately on multiple characters before, perhaps many time over what you have. Seriously, focus on your fun and don't base it on what you can have "more" than others. Be a special snowflake because you're good and people know it, not because you have some equipment you might as well have been carried to get and "deserve" even less than people who just took a shortcut.

I don't think anyone realistically expected Lordaeron to never have ICC gear in the coin shop, i believe what he wanted was a chance for people to actually get the gear the raiding way before the item limitations were lifted, since being able to donate for heroic gear before heroic content has been cleared is a bit silly and makes the PvE players feel less motivated.

I'm sure there's nothing decided just yet in that specific regard, but a few months after ICC is released would be a good compromise imo between the wishes of the devs and those of lordaeron's raiding comunity.

[Xilentraz]

I just don't get one thing. Why would you allow people to buy stat giving items but don't allow them to buy mounts and other cosmetic stuff?

[Espenenebv]

I don't understand the logic behind calling it a hardcore realm when its pay-to-win. Think donating for items should NOT be an availability on this realm. Considering its supposed to be "hardcore 110% blizzlike"

[Obnoxious]

I don't think anyone realistically expected Lordaeron to never have ICC gear in the coin shop, i believe what he wanted was a chance for people to actually get the gear the raiding way before the item limitations were lifted, since being able to donate for heroic gear before heroic content has been cleared is a bit silly and makes the PvE players feel less motivated.

I'm sure there's nothing decided just yet in that specific regard, but a few months after ICC is released would be a good compromise imo between the wishes of the devs and those of lordaeron's raiding comunity.

Well, I did say this in my post:

I don't know if there would be a delay, how long a delay would be or if it would happen alongside the content release, but it's a bit early to get into that anyways.

But yeah, selective reading is a plague in these Forums.

[Nazara]

I don't understand the logic behind calling it a hardcore realm when its pay-to-win. Think donating for items should NOT be an availability on this realm. Considering its supposed to be "hardcore 110% blizzlike"

define the word "WIN" coz its not really win... i mean yea u can buy gear but its the same gear u obtain in raids and pvp, not some exclusive gear. so nope, i wont say "pay to win" maybe "pay to reduce wasted time"
for an example there is the good ol' shaodwmourne u couldnt get ingame but u could buy it like a twerp, yeah that a good pay to win method ^^

[Mingles]

define the word "WIN" coz its not really win... i mean yea u can buy gear but its the same gear u obtain in raids and pvp, not some exclusive gear. so nope, i wont say "pay to win" maybe "pay to reduce wasted time"
for an example there is the good ol' shaodwmourne u couldnt get ingame but u could buy it like a twerp, yeah that a good pay to win method ^^

It's the same idea of 'p2w' people use for League of Legends or Hearthstone.Yes, you can obtain everything without spending real money, but doing so is such a big grind fest, or simply harder and more time consuming to achieve the same as someone who just donated, and you'd get a disadvantage when competing with said people, in WoW's case competing for a raid or guild spot, for example.

Albeit in WoW you can still outperform someone with donated gear by simply just not dying, as those people tend to do.That's more for the extreme cases of inability though, and i do think going the non 'p2w' route in wow is less 'punishing' than in the other 2 games.

[Kelthuzzad]

I must be really odd, because my fun and experience getting something (which I wanted to get instead of "buying") doesn't gets ruined in the least because someone else did it in a different way, nor does my experience of playing the game. I could only see it "ruined" if people were able to get stuff I couldn't otherwise get in any other way unless I used real money. Barring that, it's just petty envy. For all you know they are much better at the game than you and have "earned" the items legitimately on multiple characters before, perhaps many time over what you have. Seriously, focus on your fun and don't base it on what you can have "more" than others. Be a special snowflake because you're good and people know it, not because you have some equipment you might as well have been carried to get and "deserve" even less than people who just took a shortcut.

Well i ment as a raider it would give other players (who you are competing with) more advantage then you have which bascailly means it affects my i supposed ''raiding competitive'' experience and fun.. That is ONE example.... So it affects you in different ways but not really directly personal... I just see it as people who pay to get gear have a advantage over those who have not (those who are actually farming the gear). That's what i wanted to say with my post... Not to be a ''special snowflake'' as you express it that's you interpreting it wrong.. I just want a FAIR competitive expreince in end game raiding and people who actually has worked for their gear but meh. I think shortcuts should not exist but the server has to finance in someway i suppose. This is no way a bragging post or showing how good i am so i don't know why you express yourself that way but i want what's best for everyone and the server not just me. Which would be that people actually raid the content that's available and that's the only way to get it... Sure you can donate the previous tier as suggested and i think it should stay that way... Although it's too soon to tell since you said it yourself :)

define the word "WIN" coz its not really win... i mean yea u can buy gear but its the same gear u obtain in raids and pvp, not some exclusive gear. so nope, i wont say "pay to win" maybe "pay to reduce wasted time"
for an example there is the good ol' shaodwmourne u couldnt get ingame but u could buy it like a twerp, yeah that a good pay to win method ^^

To be honest any kind of advantage you can earn by using money that makes you more powerful then someone (gear wise) is a pay to win model. That's how i see it at least. Although you can work to get the gear as well or take your way as reducing the time wasted to actually get it which is understandable :)

[Radvo]

I don't understand the logic behind calling it a hardcore realm when its pay-to-win. Think donating for items should NOT be an availability on this realm. Considering its supposed to be "hardcore 110% blizzlike"

By definition, pay-to-win means gaining an unfair and unreachable (by playing normally) advantage by paying. Items available through donations are available to aquire in-game, even more than that, in-game you can get a tier higher than what you could buy. So you honestly cannot (for the time being) pay to win, as people who play the game more often or more "hardcore" will be a tier above you.

The realm has to sustain itself, I think the restrictions on the coin shop are more than enough. If you want no coin shop at all, go play on retail, or open your own server.

[Xilentraz]

define the word "WIN" coz its not really win... i mean yea u can buy gear but its the same gear u obtain in raids and pvp, not some exclusive gear. so nope,

Nah, you don't get that term. It's not about taking it literally, P2W = having advantage over other player in the game by paying real life money.

i wont say "pay to win" maybe "pay to reduce wasted time"

Wasted time? So actually having to play the game to get good gear is suddenly a "wasted time"? How (good) character progression in an MMORPG is "wasted time"? For some people leveling is "waste of time" so why can't we buy instant level 80? For some people playing arenas to get that PvP gear is waste of time for others farming ICC to get Shadowmourne is busy"WORK". Where do you drawn a line in calling something "waste of time"?

[Obnoxious]

Well i ment as a raider it would give other players (who you are competing with) more advantage then you have which bascailly means it affects my i supposed ''raiding competitive'' experience and fun.. That is ONE example.... So it affects you in different ways but not really directly personal... I just see it as people who pay to get gear have a advantage over those who have not (those who are actually farming the gear). That's what i wanted to say with my post... Not to be a ''special snowflake'' as you express it that's you interpreting it wrong.. I just want a FAIR competitive expreince in end game raiding and people who actually has worked for their gear but meh. I think shortcuts should not exist but the server has to finance in someway i suppose. This is no way a bragging post or showing how good i am so i don't know why you express yourself that way but i want what's best for everyone and the server not just me. Which would be that people actually raid the content that's available and that's the only way to get it... Sure you can donate the previous tier as suggested and i think it should stay that way... Although it's too soon to tell since you said it yourself :)

More advantage in what if you have the chance to get the same equipment? In getting a Realm First? That will be gone before people get geared with that last tier. What "raid competitiveness" is there? Bragging rights with screenshots in the Forums? I seriously hope there aren't people who would have their experience "ruined" because someone else posted screenshots first or with "bigger numbers."

Regarding fairness - what's fair? You getting an item before someone who couldn't play is fair? A player who comes play 6 months later and doesn't gets it as starting equipment can say it's not "fair"? If getting the item to drop is what makes it "fair," how about people who had it drop before and just don't want the hassle again? How can you know you worked for it as much as someone else? What if they raided thrice more than you but had no luck, and then decide to donate instead? The same way some people don't donate because they can't, some people do because they can't spare the full time to grind it. Would they deserve the item less than you if even if they play better than you?

What's best for the sever passes through what gets the server costs covered, because without that there's no server to do anything best for.

[Vicente810]

A private server needs money, besides they said that:

- Item availability based on realm's progression
- Item availability based on in-game obtainability

Items available on the shop will also be 1 tier below the available gear.

So it's not "Pay to Win", P2W means that someone that pays has more advantage that other players, for example if level 300 items are not in the game but in the shop then it is pay to win because no matter what a free to play player does he will NEVER be as powerful as someone that pays. This is not the case, as item availability is based on in-game obtainability, in the end, a F2P player will EVENTUALLY become as good as a donor.

So the only thing that a donor gains is less time farming their gear, but the result is the same.