oh i agree i love the idea of a higher populated realm but at what cost is it worth it though? once lord has hit ICC and it has been on farm and rag and dw have the same core (or when they are merged and have the same core) the player base will shift to the higher rated realms. history has shown that pre moltdown with lord at 1.5k players and rag and dw with 3x as many. new players prefer two things. higher rated realms and better scripting. not saying all will not play lord but majority of them i feel will avoid it.
if they open that third realm what would be the point when you already have 3 right now as it stands. like i said i would like patience in this area. lets let lord get icc on farm as well as updating the rest of the wrath realms to the same core and then if a certain amount of times passes and pop is still really low on DW and rag then sure lets merge.
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Banned
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Member
Why would they open another server if they can't afford the ones they have? Why do you think they want to merge the two servers togther and get ride of another expansion it's to save money.plus Rag and Deathwing both have a lot of players who played here for years those players have Bis toons and some don't need anything to donate for.If they can't find away to get lordaeron players to donate their going to be in trouble since that's the server their catering to.
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Banned
If they keep deathwing and ragnaros seperated then Warmane is forced to maintain two realms with a outdated marketplace and x7 rates.
When the realms remain seperated then a total of 12k additional players would be necessary to get a 9-10k population on Deathwing and Ragnaros. I think it is unrealistic to assume that so many players gonna join both realms.
I guess its more realistic that both realms would have around 5k players at peak time and the new core wouldnt be used to its full potential...
Also, the chance is quite high that the population of one realm would continuously grow while the other realm is losing population.
We can already see this happening, Ragnaros population is slowly dropping while deathwing population is growing.
If Warmane merges deathwing and ragnaros then we can say for sure that the new realm would have a high population, which is great.
If it really gonna be the case that the merged realm is overpopulated and has a unbearable queue time then Warmane has still the option to create a complete new realm with different experience rates and a adjusted marketplace.
I think that newcomers on deathwing and ragnaros have right now a very hard time because the gear gap between the newcomers and the BiS geared veterans is insane huge.
Imo it makes sense to put all the BiS geared veterans of deathwing and ragnaros together on one realm. The community of both realms is anyway the same and PvP and PvE is more balanced when everybody is equal well geared.
For newcomers and veterans that wish to start from scratch we would have Lordaeron and maybe a second new realm if the total wotlk population is growing.Edited: January 15, 2016
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Banned
problem i see is this. if you cant afford 3 realms now (which by the way i havent really discussed funding options yet but i will later in this post) how would you justify making another realm that would start with 0 players? maybe another lord like realm with higher rate? you would need some kind of incentive to play there. if they cant afford 3 as of now i think its unrealistic to think they can afford one in the future unless something is done about the donation issues.
look we all know gear>cosmetics for donations. first off they need to take the VP stuff and make it TOGC items not ICC 25m. then set the ICC 25m stuff to a significantly lower coin amount (maybe half of 23?) because retail also suffers from this issue which has been discussed by many top gamers there that LFR gear and Mythic gear while different does not really make a player want to continue raiding when he can get decent gear that looks the same. im not saying this is true for everyone but it is a concern for a lot of gamers out there already. what is warmane doing if not the same thing? yes it takes time to get that many vote points but still. some guy can log for 1 second log off and go vote every day then boom hit 25 icc normal gear? i think taking swapping that around would help generate money. and give players who can only donate small amounts more gear in the process by lowering the icc normal gear to a much lower amount than heroic gear. this would also help with the gap you spoke of bc vets sit on points or have even more points and can get more points theu having even more toons with better gear. i mean it used to be you could only vote for ulduar items why did it jump to ICC?
no. hell no.
it is always going to be like that and always has been like that. in fact donating allows players to get them selves faster to compete with the veterans who may have never donated a thing but just been playing here for forever and farmed tons of gear. it cant nor is it all of a sudden a new issue its been something that people have been dealing with for years and its been perfectly fine and obviously something they are not concerned with. of course new players should have a disadvantage. why shouldent they? if they tried to close the gap with gear it would only make donations worse than what they are already. if they want to catch up in gear fast there is the donation option. if they want to gather gear without donating there is that option as well.
a lot of these vets are just sitting on tons of points (like myself) to deck out a toon easily. it is just common sense and rightfully so that vets have a gap between new players.
well you cant just split players like that. a lot of new players prefer higher rates. i think whats holding them back is the core update has not come yet to the other wotlk realms. and lord is already full as it stands. problem is with a second new realm you can already see what has happened to lord realm, funding has taken a significant nose dive. to have 2 realms like that would catastrophic to funding. does not matter if they make the other realm higher rates or ability to donate everything in game. if it is started from scratch or released in tiers like lord is it will not generate the money needed to justify it.
just one last question or rather thought i guess.
if the community voted no to lord 9 months ago why was it released in the first place? because from what ive heard is kaer basically said screw it we are going to release it anyways (that was from staff member cant remember who said that) i understand as far as the new core and things are concerned but to me it seems as if some very poor planning was involved with the money aspect of things. you cant throw everything you have into a realm that donations are severely limited compared to their contemporaries and hope it generates enough money to continue all said servers. just poor planning i believe is what made this inevitable. did they think the player base would be so huge on lord? i dont think so but contingencies should have been put into place none the less. personally donating means nothing as far as winning or fairness goes. any player worth a damn knows that. simple solution? let lord donate. ofc if you donate now you are an ***** till icc comes out (lets not go full ***** here, no icc gear on donations list until after its on farm) but u get the point. i cant believe staff have bought into this as a valid argument. these people with no knowledge about donations or how it does not matter in teh long run coming here and complaining about P2W which is total LOL nonsense. so many players coming here complaining about something that means nothing and it seems to me like the staff eat it up. if there is one lesson that can be learned from retail its that the community is not always right no matter how large the outcry is for something. if you are good then you will shine no matter if full BiS gear if you are bad you will show it even in your BiS items. simple as that. we had full donations on every realm back when. same amount of players if not more were here back when every realm could full donate. obviously it was not that big of an issue it was just misinformed people giving misinformed information same then as it is now.Edited: January 15, 2016
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Member
im pretty sure that sapphire mentioned that thing. like they made lord for staff-only and bla-bla. and even after community on poll voted against reborn of leach x1 without donations and ****, they decided make it anyway (now i believe that this would become gravestone for molten).
and the problem with P2W thingie - is mental illness i guess, cant be cured. scrubs will always complain about it. i can understand someone just cant afford to waste money on game (schollbois, students etc), but not thosw who just dont want to donate (scrubs) and who are willing to play here for free, still crying bout P2W, purple axes and ****
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Banned
First of all, in a financial perspective its cheaper to merge ragnaros and deathwing and paying the rent for one realm than leaving the realms seperated and paying for two underpopulated realms.
Second. We dont even know if a third Wotlk realm gonna be necessary. Its very likely that lordaeron and the merged deathwing/ragnaros realm gonna be big enough to cover the whole wotlk population.
A new realm only need to be considered when there is a unbearable queue.
Third. A new realm doesn't need to have the same restricted marketplace like Lordaeron.
What I said is that the marketplace of a new realm can be adjusted which means that it can be even more profitable than deathwing and ragnaros.
Fourth. Lordaeron is a long term investment which will pay off later on.
The realm has a insane huge population and can only be a complete success. Its just a matter of time until Warmane find ways to earn a lot of money with it.Edited: January 16, 2016
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Member
You're crazy if you think the realms having the same XP rates is a valid reason to merge them. The guy you quoted gave a number of legitimate reasons why they SHOULDNT be merged.
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Banned
I agree with a few points in there no doubt point 1 and 2.
Point 3 though while I agree on it won't have restrictions Lord having restrictions is in my view what is hurting them the most merge or not I don't think it will generate enough money shutting down 1 realm. Plus we have heard from others about the lag Lord is experiencing already pretty sure the new merges realm will too.
Lord won't pay off. It's gone negative and will continue until donations are open like they are on rag and dw. However a shift in players to higher rated realms like I mentioned before may be enough to offset this. But in all likelihood there will have to be a third realm once lords player base drops off and new players come to higher rated realms which as I explained before will happen. There won't be a time when it makes money in the current model it is in for donations. 10k players haven't been enough to turn it around.
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Member
I'll try to explain everything so you stop talking stuff you have no idea about:
1º Having 1 realm can be more expensive than having 2. It isn't like you pay for 1 realm and it's X price so if you pay for 2 realms the price will be 2*X, and if you decide to merge both realms the price will become X, just no. Having a server to host a realm for 8k players can be more expensive than having 2 servers to host 2 realms with each one having a 4k players limit, it all depends on the settings they decide to run for the best experience for us (players).
2º There are reasons for why Blizzard's realms only hosted 3k players, not only technical reasons but there were reasons related to the user's experience. A third realm would be most-likely to be needed (In case the merge happens) what would send us back to this time to have the same discussion and probably have the same issues that we had for a possible Rag&DW merge, just so we can split the realms and have a better experience.
3º So you're proposing to have another realm to run a different strategy than Lordaeron, what could possibly mean another Rag/DW...
4º What information/data do you have to back up the "fact" that Lordaeron will pay off? It hasnt payed off yet, as confirmed by Kaer and that's all we know, and if you mean it by the amount of players it has then you're wrong. "Complete success", oh lord, a success for a company is a project that can pay itself (Costs = Income) and up, they're losing money at the moment so no, it isn't a success.
A matter of time? Time is key, and they have failed already with the given amount of time. They need to change their gameplan because their current plan has been proven to be a fail, and fast (Why? Well, it's simple, a company starts cutting staff because they cant minimize their earnings any more than what they have already, that means they're on a bad position).
I don't agree with the merge, and I'll share my opinion:
We're Warmane and we have 2 cows and 1 dog, our cows are Ragnaros and Deathwing, meanwhile our dog is Lordaeron. Our cows are producing enough food so we eat, meanwhile our dog isn't making the expected production and it's only eating what our cows produce.
I am Kaer Wolf, I'm an adventurous business man and I want to change this asap so I don't lose money and we (Warmane, the family) can eat, as an adventurous business man I also have a spark of creativity so I come with an idea "I'll get rid of one cow, so I can feed more the other and move it somewhere else", this way my dog will have something to eat and so will my remaining cow.
And this is what's happening right now, Kaer might put us on an unease position again (After Moltdown) so he can keep feeding his dog which ain't making almost any production, and that's just insane. From a business pov, that's wrong, you don't get rid of your cows to feed your dogs, you should do the opposite (Get rid of your dogs, or find any better way for them to be productive) and feed even more your cows. At the end of the day, your cows are still cows while your dog will still be a dog (Unless you do something to make that dog a cow).
I find this idea a mistake proposed by no other but Kaer. Honestly, I'm feeling like if the staff wouldn't be in touch with players, to administrate a game you must know how that game is running, what means you MUST PLAY that game. But, hey, it's just my opinion.Edited: January 16, 2016
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Banned
Well I know some of them do play. But I have to agree with everything else. Look I don't want to blame certain staff members here but this problem to me is clearly the unwillingness to allow donations on Lord. Like I said before pay to win is absurd and means nothing. But so many people who are miss informed come here complaining about it. There is no such thing as pay to win.
To me this is moltdown 2.5
I was trying to not put anyone off by saying that but I think we are past that point now.
This whole Lord thing was what doomed the money situation from the start. I understand it is almost pointless at this time to have full open donations until icc has been out for a set time(or maybe not?) but when icc has been out for a set time full donations on Lord like we have here will be the only saving grace for Warmane.
Tons of cata players pissed at the possibility of a upgrade to mop is not going to win any donations. Tons of players on rag and death wing pissed about a merger will not win donations. You have the biggest market on Lord and you refuse to tap into it? What kind of business standpoint is that? I don't want to hear it's not all about money. I'm sure it's not always about that but there comes a point where it is. This is that point.
Again I don't want to hear about play to win. There is no such thing as I've said in here a thousand times. Cutting staff is not going to help anything at all.
All realms since I've been here have had full donations. We had more people playing here then. Obviously it was not that big of a deal except for the childish players who think it did. I don't get that so ill say it again... We had more players here when full donations on all realms so it's not like it was causing people to leave or any other nonsense. Certain staff members have bought into the complaints of these people and look what it has done. Granted I really don't like Kaer just saying f it and opening a realm we all voted no on. Core updates? Yes that was needed. The spark that brought so many people here was a newer better core. Not a 1x with limited donations realm. Idk how or why some staff bought into that fallacy and now defend it. I promise you that a lot of people feel the same way we do but they just avoid these forums because of the cancer of some topics such as donations.Edited: January 16, 2016
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Banned
So after all u have also no idea if it would be cheaper or more expensive to host one big realm.
The only thing that we can say for sure is that a merged realm would make everything twice as active. Talking about raids, BGs, RDF and especially the arena brackets would benefit from it. Imo its a step forward to have such a high populated realm and I dont really get how ppl can be against such a idea.
The only argument against a realm merge that I find comprehensible is lag. But again, we dont know how many ppl gonna play on the merged realm. If its unplayable lagging then the source of the lag need to be identified and if nothing helps the realm cap need to be reduced. That would be the point where a third realm need to be opened.
Blizzard realms work completely different because they have in pretty much all areas a cross realm system.
Before cross realm was implemented a blizzard realm had far more than 3k players.
Yes, it COULD POSSIBLY mean that. Everything could be possible. Its highly unlikely though that they would make a second x7 rate realm when we already have one.
The 10k population and the plenty of new players that join Warmane every day. These ppl are all potential customers.
Before Warmane becomes bankrupt they have always the option to open a unresricted marketplace on Lordaeron. So yes, Lordaeron will pay off if they want so.
There is one important thing that u fail to understand. The merge doesnt mean that we get rid of one cow. It means that both cows merge and become a giant elephant.Edited: January 16, 2016
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Banned
Well there is lag. Names losses for guilds and players. People potentially losing toons since u can only have 10 on one realm and players have 10 between both right now. Did you forget all of that?
You are missing the point. Those 10k on Lord are not helping to fund obviously as reported by Kaer. So you already have potential customers but nothing worth them spending money on because the donation model is terrible there.
It won't pay off stuff BC they want it to. Players have that final decision. Although they would be more inclined if the donation model where to change.
Actually we are getting rid of one cow. Re read his anology.
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Member
Speak for yourself please, you only represent yourself. I for one think that the realm merge will be great.
Merging DW & ragnaros is not "eating one cow" , it's magically transforming both milk cows into one bigger fatter one.
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Member
Lag can be prevented by optimisations and lowering player cap if needed.
Name losses for guilds and players is not fun it's not the end of the world. Maybe they could give the oldest guilds and most played characters the right to keep their name?
People losing toons can also be prevented, Kear Wolf already mentioned website based character trading for lordearon so they could make a system for max lvl characters to be transferred off to other accounts.
Lordearon not paying off? Really? Have you seen the population and the ques? All they need to do is open the donor gear gates and an endless stream of money will crash into warmane their bank accounts. Yes it's pay to win, no i don't care, it's part of the private server business. I've donated plenty of money as you have and i don't give a rats *** about cosmetic stuff. Sitting on a mountain of coins here, and they will be used to buy gear.
Warmane played it smart by first establishing a big *** community on lordearon, this will no doubt pay off eventually. They got access to all the data that was mined over the years, i'm 100% sure they know what they're doing.
Looking forward to their future plans here.
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Banned
Well plenty of people in this thread and others have spoken out against it. It's not just me. I like larger population as I said before but the cost of it is just to high of a price to pay
