Naxxramas Damage/health nerf?

[klemmy]

in my opinion they already nerfed damage a lot in the lasts 3 or 4 weeks? 10m and 25m. only Boss which is rly rly strange was patchwerk in 25m. The rest of the bosses are absolutly easy...

get Pre-BiS and go. should be easy. also as a casual guild.

[yairomii]

I hope they won't toy with the numbers in Ulduar so that it doesn't take weeks before the numbers are set to where they want them to be.

AFAIK they already did.

[Enitzu]

++

I don't see the advantage of 10 man being HARDER than 25 while having worse loot. This absolutely hinders growth of smaller guilds. Right now NA only has like 2 guilds that have cleared Naxx 25. So NA PVE-interested players get split into two

1) Those who aren't in the top NA guilds and have to struggle through 10-man content thats overtuned
2) Those in the top NA guilds who don't even bother with 10man content cause its overtuned for sub-par/side-grades mostly.

Heck, I was in a successful half-pug of OS25 but i wouldn't dare think about OS10 just due to difficulty difference.

Also, the joke while we wear clearing Naxx25 was that a lot of the adds and such had the same HP as Naxx10.

Obviously you never did 10 mans when live did you? Majority of the time 10 man was harder. You have less people and less flexibility on who you bring. The ones that do make it in have to be superb players because 1 mistake and it's a wipe. That is how 10 man always has been. It's why 10 man guilds back in the day had every class lvld to max and played at a min 2 of them that were fully raid geared and ready to switch when needed.

Thinking that should change for the sake of easily clearing content is absurd. 10 man is easier to coordinate but requires a higher skill cap. Always has, always will.

[smille]

Obviously you never did 10 mans when live did you? Majority of the time 10 man was harder. You have less people and less flexibility on who you bring. The ones that do make it in have to be superb players because 1 mistake and it's a wipe. That is how 10 man always has been. It's why 10 man guilds back in the day had every class lvld to max and played at a min 2 of them that were fully raid geared and ready to switch when needed.

Thinking that should change for the sake of easily clearing content is absurd. 10 man is easier to coordinate but requires a higher skill cap. Always has, always will.

10 man content was cleared before 25 man content, so u saying that 10man is harder, is not true :)

[kupeczka]

10 man content was cleared before 25 man content, so u saying that 10man is harder, is not true :)

LOL, sure 10 man content is harder. It was cleared before 25 simple because you need 25 geared people at raids. But if you look at healing needed/dps for 10 compared to 25 its way harder.

[wedemboys]

i wish everyone would shut up

[Ekunn]

i wish everyone would shut up

I think you're really great...

[SOULROT666]

Ive seen a lot of good people quit playing wow completely because of the rediculous amount of hp on the bosses in naxx. Is this going to be nerfed or is it going to stay the same? Its great to have it a bit buffed, but not at this level either, makes naxx feel like a bad memory instead of fun time.

[kupeczka]

Ive seen a lot of good people quit playing wow completely because of the rediculous amount of hp on the bosses in naxx. Is this going to be nerfed or is it going to stay the same? Its great to have it a bit buffed, but not at this level either, makes naxx feel like a bad memory instead of fun time.

They said from start. This realm is not for everyone. You got casual Deathwing and Ragnaros. They wont nefr anything here, because players that play here wanna it stay buffed. Next time tell this players to read realm information, before they start playing on it. There was info for months, how raids will look like.

[Mahourai]

Obviously you never did 10 mans when live did you? Majority of the time 10 man was harder. You have less people and less flexibility on who you bring. The ones that do make it in have to be superb players because 1 mistake and it's a wipe. That is how 10 man always has been. It's why 10 man guilds back in the day had every class lvld to max and played at a min 2 of them that were fully raid geared and ready to switch when needed.

Thinking that should change for the sake of easily clearing content is absurd. 10 man is easier to coordinate but requires a higher skill cap. Always has, always will.

10-mans were tuned much lower than 25s on live during Wrath, even accounting for the difference in gear level between the average 10 and 25 progression raider.

This isn't about which was harder - which for my money is plainly 25, as the difficulty of progression raiding is in getting everyone to perform up to the necessary level, a task which is necessarily more demanding with 25 people in the same encounter. Likewise, voidzone mechanics like Defile are plainly harder to deal with in 25. But there is no argument that 10s were tuned as hard or harder than 25-man raids in Wrath - they simply were not.

EDIT:

10-man raids were not an attempt at tuning parity with 25s until the big revamp in Cataclysm, where 10 and 25 also rewarded the same gear. Even then, only T11 really had a majority of fights where you'd argue that 10H was more tightly tuned than 25H, and that was because they were ****ing it up since it was the first tier they were doing this in. Fights that were notably harder on 10H (Garrosh Hellscream in MoP comes to mind) were few and far between.

[rizlaprime]

feels like 10 man is way too hard considering the gear you obtain from it is pretty much comparable with heroics/rep.

It's fun to progress but not very rewarding that's my view on the matter

[Enitzu]

10-mans were tuned much lower than 25s on live during Wrath, even accounting for the difference in gear level between the average 10 and 25 progression raider.

This isn't about which was harder - which for my money is plainly 25, as the difficulty of progression raiding is in getting everyone to perform up to the necessary level, a task which is necessarily more demanding with 25 people in the same encounter. Likewise, voidzone mechanics like Defile are plainly harder to deal with in 25. But there is no argument that 10s were tuned as hard or harder than 25-man raids in Wrath - they simply were not.

EDIT:

10-man raids were not an attempt at tuning parity with 25s until the big revamp in Cataclysm, where 10 and 25 also rewarded the same gear. Even then, only T11 really had a majority of fights where you'd argue that 10H was more tightly tuned than 25H, and that was because they were ****ing it up since it was the first tier they were doing this in. Fights that were notably harder on 10H (Garrosh Hellscream in MoP comes to mind) were few and far between.

Considering I was a part of world top 10 guilds from vanilla through Cata I know all too well the difficulty of both 10 and 25 mans. We farmed them on multiple toons per week. So you trying to justify 10 mans being notably easier than 25s is completely lost on me. Some fights, yes 10 man is just easier due to space issues. But for the most part 25 has always been easier to handle. You have more room for mistakes, more room to carry that low dps or 2, more people to spread around for different tasks, etc. etc. It is simply just easier with more people to work with. Having to organize 25 people and recruitment of said people are the only things that made 25 mans even slightly difficult.

That being said, 10 mans began to seem much easier as wrath released and people started to get more gear. But even then you didn't start seeing pugs clearing naxx 10 until well into ToC unless they were being carried by high end Ulduar raiders. And judging from what I have seem from this servers 'top end' guilds in streams ... I don't see carrys happening for a long while. Watching top guilds having people that obviously don't have a clue to what their rotations should be is a bit astounding tbh. Which is the real problem.

10 mans don't need to be tuned. 25 mans don't need to be adjusted. People simply need to learn to play the game. Ele shamans should not at any point in time think that Chain Lightning takes precedence over Lava Burst in a single target rotation (and yes that is exactly what a streamer tried to tell me in one of these 'top end' guilds). If you can find 10 people that know what they are doing and a raid leader that isn't a moron then I can assure you 10 mans would be a cake walk. That still doesn't justify even bothering to do 10 mans for the lower end gear but hey to each their own.

[Zumrak]

What happened on retail doesn't seem to matter here at all, so reminiscing about that is just pointless. This is not a blizzlike server. What matters here is that the 10 man version is actually harder than the 25man for worse gear and it's not right. 1 mistake in 10man = wipe. 1 mistake in 25man = who cares, carry on, boss still dies (check out os25 rf). The required competence for the different versions just doesn't match the rewards. 10 man should be easier, at least on the boss damage.

[Mahourai]

Considering I was a part of world top 10 guilds from vanilla through Cata I know all too well the difficulty of both 10 and 25 mans. We farmed them on multiple toons per week. So you trying to justify 10 mans being notably easier than 25s is completely lost on me. Some fights, yes 10 man is just easier due to space issues. But for the most part 25 has always been easier to handle. You have more room for mistakes, more room to carry that low dps or 2, more people to spread around for different tasks, etc. etc. It is simply just easier with more people to work with. Having to organize 25 people and recruitment of said people are the only things that made 25 mans even slightly difficult.

We're talking about progression raiding. There is no room to "carry" anyone, on either size.

As for "it's easier with more people to work with", really? lol. H Rag, H Lei Shen etc were "easier" when you had "more people to work with"?

EDIT:

Are you aware that the 10-man vs 25-man debate didn't even exist until Wrath and was a completely different issue in Cataclysm? Why are you telling us this amazing history of being the best raider in the world during a time when it's completely irrelevant to the discussion?

That being said, 10 mans began to seem much easier as wrath released and people started to get more gear. But even then you didn't start seeing pugs clearing naxx 10 until well into ToC unless they were being carried by high end Ulduar raiders.

No one who actually played in Wrath will believe this, dude.

[wedemboys]

still gotta carry people in this content. you just gotta yell more.