Current state of raiding

[joshds6]

Currently leveling a rogue, will i be capable of raiding in naxx with full heroic as a expriened player or will i need to obtain 213 Ilvl gear?

[xogen]

You will not be able to. Every top guild donated 213 gear from the market to clear naxx and then proceeded to sell boost runs for 100k gold per run. Pretty clever plan from warmane I'd say.

[Touchooo]

You will not be able to. Every top guild donated 213 gear from the market to clear naxx and then proceeded to sell boost runs for 100k gold per run. Pretty clever plan from warmane I'd say.

You can't buy 213 gear from the market.

[pinecleandog]

The issue is we don't have an entry level raids. 10 man raids are harder than 25 man raids because the bosses do 250% more damage and 250% more hp and it doesn't scale as linearly as you would expect with 10 players.
You will need to be overgeared to do the entry level raids, and that's it.

However, the staff don't seem to be comfortable openly discussing the issue since it's not in line with their own interests.

[Jamiejastaa]

Yes you will be, Naxx isn't difficult, you just have to find someone to take you there

[strangee]

If getting hc gear is not enough, buy epics off ah.

[Domina]

All I can say is that our guild is struggling big time and basically all our officers cleared Naxx 40 back in 2006 and at least 2/3 of guild cleared it in wotlk too. We find the damage received way too unforgivable, not counting that basically all the encounters are totally different from live, be it vanilla or wotlk. For example, plenty of times Anub's spikes cover basically half the room, to have all healers up in the air and unable to heal its a common thing. Noth is hitting insanely hard too and can drop a heroic-preraid-bis tank from 100% to 0 in 2 swings, and this thing happens in all Naxx. The overall feeling is that we don't have the gear to make progress, and since we farmed all of the pre-raid heroic gear possible, we are in a point where we don't have where to go and what to do.
Overall, compared to what was on live, it's a nightmare.

I'll always think at wotlk Naxx as some sort of Molten Core, a place where the newcomers need to practice raiding and get better, in order to learn and get geared to be effective at later raids as hardmodes in Ulduar, etc. The mediocre will remain at naxx while the top guilds will kill things in Ulduar hardmodes, ToC and further.

I personally wouldnt mind if Naxx would be overtuned with let's say, 100%, given that we have 3.3.5 talents and so on. But 250%... that's almost 3x times the damage and 3x times the HP, and while I am not saying that it's not possible to kill things here, the pain, effort and dedication required is too much compared to what you get, not counting that it's not fun either. Not counting that even if you - as a person, happen to be a complete hardcore machine who likes this, finding 25 other similar minded/skilled/hardcore players is close to impossible. And I am saying this as a guy who spent the last 3 weeks recruiting people at least 3-4 hours a day.

Just my 2 cents.

[Touchooo]

Heh, funny that a person who has cleared Naxx40 would say that he damage taken is unforgivable here. The damage value from Naxx 40 were actually pretty close to the ones during retail Wrath. For example Anub's locust swarm, 1200 every 2 seconds in Vanilla while in retail Wrath the value was 1313-1687 every 2 seconds. And as far as I can remember, my friend's mage used to have around 3.5k ish HP with Naxx-ready gear (ie. tier 2)

[LikeDwind]

Naxxramus 25 is all perfect currently, 10 man is harder then it needs to be in my opinion too, but it's not up to me to change it

[Domina]

Heh, funny that a person who has cleared Naxx40 would say that he damage taken is unforgivable here. The damage value from Naxx 40 were actually pretty close to the ones during retail Wrath. For example Anub's locust swarm, 1200 every 2 seconds in Vanilla while in retail Wrath the value was 1313-1687 every 2 seconds. And as far as I can remember, my friend's mage used to have around 3.5k ish HP with Naxx-ready gear (ie. tier 2)

Please don't misinterpret what I was saying. I am not saying it's not doable, I am saying it's extraordinary hard to find enough motivated people in 2016 to fill a vanillla-nax-like raid. Probably with a full roster from my old guild would have no problems here, since the top 100 guilds back in the old days were obviously filled by top players. let me remind you that Naxx 40 was cleared by an under 1% of total guilds worldwide, so expecting from a whole server of 10.000 players to be able to do this, would imply we have here a server full of top players, which is obviously not the case, since I constantly see randoms failing big time in simple heroics. Also don't forget naxx 40 was a Tier 3 instance, accesible only to the top guilds who managed to farm AQ40, which means they were not bad at all (hello twins, cthun, ouro, how many guilds actually cleared those on live may I ask? ) and also geared accordingly. Here, players are required to do the same only with a bigger gear gap and much less experience.

Tldr: No matter how you look at it, the Wotlk versions of Naxx25/10 were originally designed with the same role as Molten Core, the 1st raid instance where you learn about raiding and you accumulate some gear in order to have a chance in the upper tiers. And from what I saw, here we have a huge hoard of the players around who are basically hitting a brickwall with their heads, they get into a guild, farm their heroic pre-raid gear, go naxx 25 or 10, wipe there 15 times then stop playing. Yes, if you want to have a low population server full of top players, obviously this strategy gonna work. But if you want to have a high population server with good economy and everything, I'm 100% sure it's not the best approach. In my oppinion, there are more than enough opportunities in the next raids like Ulduar/ToC/ICC to differentiate the extraordinay, the good, the average and the mediocre, how many people here you think will get Ulduar hardmodes..."He feeds on your tears" anyone ? :)))

[danilulz]

All I can say is that our guild is struggling big time and basically all our officers cleared Naxx 40 back in 2006 and at least 2/3 of guild cleared it in wotlk too. We find the damage received way too unforgivable, not counting that basically all the encounters are totally different from live, be it vanilla or wotlk. For example, plenty of times Anub's spikes cover basically half the room, to have all healers up in the air and unable to heal its a common thing. Noth is hitting insanely hard too and can drop a heroic-preraid-bis tank from 100% to 0 in 2 swings, and this thing happens in all Naxx. The overall feeling is that we don't have the gear to make progress, and since we farmed all of the pre-raid heroic gear possible, we are in a point where we don't have where to go and what to do.
Overall, compared to what was on live, it's a nightmare.

I'll always think at wotlk Naxx as some sort of Molten Core, a place where the newcomers need to practice raiding and get better, in order to learn and get geared to be effective at later raids as hardmodes in Ulduar, etc. The mediocre will remain at naxx while the top guilds will kill things in Ulduar hardmodes, ToC and further.

I personally wouldnt mind if Naxx would be overtuned with let's say, 100%, given that we have 3.3.5 talents and so on. But 250%... that's almost 3x times the damage and 3x times the HP, and while I am not saying that it's not possible to kill things here, the pain, effort and dedication required is too much compared to what you get, not counting that it's not fun either. Not counting that even if you - as a person, happen to be a complete hardcore machine who likes this, finding 25 other similar minded/skilled/hardcore players is close to impossible. And I am saying this as a guy who spent the last 3 weeks recruiting people at least 3-4 hours a day.

Just my 2 cents.

The raids aren't hard, but yes, you need the right people for it, which can be hard to find. The problem is that most people have gotten used to retail like raiding where you are basically given everything free and skill-cap is low.

About the problems that you said that you were having, both are easily fixable. On Anub, as you said the spike radius is higher than in retail, you might want to spread your people around a bit, especially the healers, so you aren't all in the air at the same time. Tank getting one shotted? You might want to try rotating defensive cds. With a correct setup, you can have a defensive cd on a tank for the whole fight (Hand of sacrifce, Shield wall, Pain supression, Shield block, Tanks trinkets, Guardian spirit, switching tanks and using their cds and the list goes on.) Although this will require little coordination and communication, which most guilds seem to lack.

[YakumoYukari]

And from what I saw, here we have a huge hoard of the players around who are basically hitting a brickwall with their heads, they get into a guild, farm their heroic pre-raid gear, go naxx 25 or 10, wipe there 15 times then stop playing.

Really? Then why do I see so many people with full naxx gear? A lot of people have been farming naxx for months already. Me and my guild killed KT on second week after we started raiding this instance.
I think you are exaggerating a lot. Maybe, completely braindead people wouldn't be able to clear naxx, but it is totally doable for an average semi-hardcore guild.

[Palutena]

Lordaeron is the Very Hard option of WotLK. Makes sense its difficulty to be unforgivable.

[Cleo]

People NEED to have 90% BIS from Heroic Dungeons, badge gear, gems, enchants to do well in Naxx. You also need good coordination and strategies. You will struggle on some bosses but after getting gear from a few more easily killable bosses you will be able to do it. Don't give up hope =].

[bloodshedsword]

Disclaimer : We are a currently 10 man core group guild and we did 25 man run with another guild named 'Reason'

I accept 25 man raids are not dead hard. But there are something which suddenly get funny sometimes like Patchwerk hitting 79000-91000 Mortal strike in 25 man and 1 shotting Off tanks and then everyone 1 by 1

It was yesterday, we gave up on patchwerk when Mortal Strike was doing 1 shot kill with MPR reporting 65k+ hits on OT (Def capped) and 92k on random preys
MPR reported that Mortal Strike damage is 79000-91000 on tool-tip within a death report.

I really dont know whats going on !!!

Then we went for Anub and guess what adds became immune to target like we were just seeing images there

Honestly, no idea what was going on.

Rather than sarcasm reply over here, i would respect someone to share the way to hold that patchwerk damage at least. Yes, we had disc priest which was doing his work fine and even hpalas were doing it more than better.