Current state of raiding

[Jamiejastaa]

Patchwerk doesn't hit that hard unless your tank isn't defcapped

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/v...?s=6445&e=6674

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/v...?s=6445&e=6674

and from my understanding your melee is supposed to dip into the ooze in order to reduce their HP and stuff like glyph of holylight should be removed

[LikeDwind]

What those graphs show, as a warrior off tank on patchwerk i am getting, well it's hard to say exactly how much but 29-36 000 damage my health is 40-42 000, the first time I killed him i was 3866 gear score and i survived utill the last 10 seconds which was enough for he raid to finish him, so you don't need to be the best to do it, but you definitely need every buff you can get including flasks, potions... you need to plan how are you going to use your CDs, and if your raid is for a first time there you will need about 3-4 hours of wiping too which is normal considering you choose to play on this server

[bloodshedsword]

Tank was on 540+ Def and yea it was honestly not 29-36k hit .... he got 1 shot in 6 pulls of Patchwerk with damage everytime being 35k+

I think we will do some fine tuning in our tanks, will discuss more with guild about it

cheers !

and from my understanding your melee is supposed to dip into the ooze in order to reduce their HP and stuff like glyph of holylight should be removed

Know that part and none of our MDPS died first, we were perfectly synced on it as mdps. Its just OT being 1 shot even on 100% health
Glyph of Holy lights were removed already before 1st pull even

P.S. I myself never liked prot warriors on PvE content as OT and it was a prot warrior as OT

[Jamiejastaa]

Sounds like you need to finetune your holy paladins and disc priests instead

also having a resto shaman reduces the damage taken of your tanks

[bloodshedsword]

Sounds like you need to finetune your holy paladins and disc priests instead

also having a resto shaman reduces the damage taken of your tanks

Will take that into consideration :) thanx

[kolas]

Disclaimer : We are a currently 10 man core group guild and we did 25 man run with another guild named 'Reason'

I accept 25 man raids are not dead hard. But there are something which suddenly get funny sometimes like Patchwerk hitting 79000-91000 Mortal strike in 25 man and 1 shotting Off tanks and then everyone 1 by 1

It was yesterday, we gave up on patchwerk when Mortal Strike was doing 1 shot kill with MPR reporting 65k+ hits on OT (Def capped) and 92k on random preys
MPR reported that Mortal Strike damage is 79000-91000 on tool-tip within a death report.

I really dont know whats going on !!!

Then we went for Anub and guess what adds became immune to target like we were just seeing images there

Honestly, no idea what was going on.

Rather than sarcasm reply over here, i would respect someone to share the way to hold that patchwerk damage at least. Yes, we had disc priest which was doing his work fine and even hpalas were doing it more than better.

Here's what we did in early beginning, we glyphed our warriors with 2min cd on shieldwall and myself (dk) pop shieldwall 1-2 sec after pull, so healers can get used to the fight and get used to how hard it hits. We usually use 4 tanks (3 hateful 1 MT) so there is always a safety tank with full hp so he doesnt 1 shot melees, this is not needed if healers are on point. Also when gear is low, prepotting a armor pot on all will help alot, and use one under 30% and ofcourse pop shieldwall at 10%. And also put the weakest geared and lowest health tank as "maintank" (the one with highest aggro and pulls).

[Greedman456]

What kolas said is correct we do it with 6 healers too sometimes also cause dps in 25 man is more than enough to not hit the enrage. Also with 3 offtanks no need for mdps to dip in **** which reduces all their stats by90%...

But i suspect what bloodshed reported was a one time bug or something like two weeks ago we went to instructor and he wasnt being mced by priests... For the whole duration of the id he couldnt be mced... Dunno what happened just this bug 2 weeks ago, then back to normal.. I guess sometimes something happens and the id gets bugged or soemthing and some things dont work correctly.. Also i think hateful cant crit, can it? So even with no def cap warrior would still not take 65k dmg so it must be a bug. But dunno...



Edit:92k on random people is pretty normal though thats how much it hits on leather and stuff...

[bloodshedsword]

What kolas said is correct we do it with 6 healers too sometimes also cause dps in 25 man is more than enough to not hit the enrage. Also with 3 offtanks no need for mdps to dip in **** which reduces all their stats by90%...

We were doing it with 2 Off tanks and 6 healers ( 2 hpala, 1 disc, 1 druid, 2shaman). Guess we need 1 more Disc in stread of those 2 shamans or druid can go boomie.

But i suspect what bloodshed reported was a one time bug or something like two weeks ago we went to instructor and he wasnt being mced by priests... For the whole duration of the id he couldnt be mced... Dunno what happened just this bug 2 weeks ago, then back to normal.. I guess sometimes something happens and the id gets bugged or soemthing and some things dont work correctly.. Also i think hateful cant crit, can it? So even with no def cap warrior would still not take 65k dmg so it must be a bug. But dunno...



Edit:92k on random people is pretty normal though thats how much it hits on leather and stuff...

Thats exactly what i meant, We did not have this problem when we just went for 25 man for a testing fun run but when we made a 25 man run, Patchwerk was 1shotting both the OT with 65k+ hits on MPR. We wasted like 1 hou 30 mins there to figure out whats going on.

Then we went Anub, 4-5 pulls and on every 2nd or 3rd swamp, we were not able to target adds even and they wiped us. Wasted again 1 hour or more there

Then we went for Noth with 2 OT to handle adds, 5 pulls exactly and on teleport phase, there were 6 champions spawned within 5 second exact time OT were handling 2 champions each with shift taunts on5th one. the 6th one went straight into raid and MT taunted it to save the raid and Noth decided right there to jump back and 1 shotted healers.
Then we changed plan a little, our OT said they will handle 3 champs and MT wont use his taunt, but this time there spawned 5 adds and the OT who took 3 died from massive damage with wasting 2 Lay on hands and those 3 then wiped us.
IMO there should not be more than 5 champions, its already hardcore with 5 there or i guess exactly our instance ID was bugged and we then called RO with pissed moods because our DPS was not really slacking one and nor our healers.

We did not pull Razuvious as we did not have another Disc to handle that and we were already mentally exhausted by facing 3 bugged bosses or whatever they were

[Renae]

We were doing it with 2 Off tanks and 6 healers ( 2 hpala, 1 disc, 1 druid, 2shaman). Guess we need 1 more Disc in stread of those 2 shamans or druid can go boomie.



Thats exactly what i meant, We did not have this problem when we just went for 25 man for a testing fun run but when we made a 25 man run, Patchwerk was 1shotting both the OT with 65k+ hits on MPR. We wasted like 1 hou 30 mins there to figure out whats going on.

Then we went Anub, 4-5 pulls and on every 2nd or 3rd swamp, we were not able to target adds even and they wiped us. Wasted again 1 hour or more there

Then we went for Noth with 2 OT to handle adds, 5 pulls exactly and on teleport phase, there were 6 champions spawned within 5 second exact time OT were handling 2 champions each with shift taunts on5th one. the 6th one went straight into raid and MT taunted it to save the raid and Noth decided right there to jump back and 1 shotted healers.
Then we changed plan a little, our OT said they will handle 3 champs and MT wont use his taunt, but this time there spawned 5 adds and the OT who took 3 died from massive damage with wasting 2 Lay on hands and those 3 then wiped us.
IMO there should not be more than 5 champions, its already hardcore with 5 there or i guess exactly our instance ID was bugged and we then called RO with pissed moods because our DPS was not really slacking one and nor our healers.

We did not pull Razuvious as we did not have another Disc to handle that and we were already mentally exhausted by facing 3 bugged bosses or whatever they were

First of all, Patch is not about how many healers do you have, it's about how good your healers are. You can try it with 7 healers but it won't make any difference and it's useless. While healing hateful strikes, it's all about how fast your healers can heal OT back to 100%. Go ahead and check your healing records, you will see at least 3 healers have more overhealing than actual healing.
My guild is doing patch with 5 heals max, and the fifth guy is resto dudu who is just backup if anything goes wrong. 2 hpalas, shammy and a disc are enough. Your raid just needs to use all the skills they have, like multiple innervates, priests' hymns, shams mana tide, not to mention mana potions. Quality over quantity.

Same goes for Noth. Why the heck would you force your OTs to tank 2+ or 3+ champions? Not even most skilled prot palas would survive that. Again, use your full raid, not only your tanks and healers. Have your spriest always keeping 1 champion shackled, have your hunter(s) using their freezing traps, have your shamans use mass aoe root totems, have your druids use actual single-target roots. MT should always focus on taunting noth when he comes back.

Anub- have your hunters use misdirect when scarabs spawn, as well as rogues using tot.

Same goes for other bosses. You will find naxx quite enjoyable for raiding once your raiders stop tunnelvisioning and just dpsing the boss instead of using their skills and abilities to their full potential.

[bloodshedsword]

First of all, Patch is not about how many healers do you have, it's about how good your healers are. You can try it with 7 healers but it won't make any difference and it's useless. While healing hateful strikes, it's all about how fast your healers can heal OT back to 100%. Go ahead and check your healing records, you will see at least 3 healers have more overhealing than actual healing.
My guild is doing patch with 5 heals max, and the fifth guy is resto dudu who is just backup if anything goes wrong. 2 hpalas, shammy and a disc are enough. Your raid just needs to use all the skills they have, like multiple innervates, priests' hymns, shams mana tide, not to mention mana potions. Quality over quantity.

Same goes for Noth. Why the heck would you force your OTs to tank 2+ or 3+ champions? Not even most skilled prot palas would survive that. Again, use your full raid, not only your tanks and healers. Have your spriest always keeping 1 champion shackled, have your hunter(s) using their freezing traps, have your shamans use mass aoe root totems, have your druids use actual single-target roots. MT should always focus on taunting noth when he comes back.

Anub- have your hunters use misdirect when scarabs spawn, as well as rogues using tot.

Same goes for other bosses. You will find naxx quite enjoyable for raiding once your raiders stop tunnelvisioning and just dpsing the boss instead of using their skills and abilities to their full potential.

Patchwerk : Ok so tell me how to heal 65k actual hit on a 42k health tank ? I am really more keened to know how you heal that tank who has already died. And yea, those hateful strikes were continuous every second, we lost 2 OT, 1 MT, 5 MDPS in 7 Seconds. Wish we had made a video with a tag "What happens when Patchwerk gets cheated on by his abom girl". To repeat, all tanks were def capped.

For Noth : Agreed with shackles but dude 6 champions in almost single wave ? Forget about noth, we will do a full optimized class wise setup in next run

Anub : Did you actually read what i said and you just answered randomly ?

have your hunters use misdirect when scarabs spawn, as well as rogues using tot.

What can a hunter do if after MD he is not even able to hit the add. They were just like images, none was able to target them and hit them but they were hitting us.

[Renae]

Patchwerk : Ok so tell me how to heal 65k actual hit on a 42k health tank ?
For Noth : Agreed with shackles but dude 6 champions in almost single wave ? Forget about noth, we will do a full optimized class wise setup in next run
Anub : Did you actually read what i said and you just answered randomly ?


What can a hunter do if after MD he is not even able to hit the add. They were just like images, none was able to target them and hit them but they were hitting us.

Tbh, I didn't read the whole thread, just skimmed it. I have no idea how you got into situation where you could not target adds on anub, but I can tell you that should not happen. You should post that on bugtracker. Noth, 6 champs - you have 4 CCs on 4 champs, each OT takes 1 champ and you nuke them down asap, and so on. As for patch, if he is hitting your OTs for 65k (which I highly doubt it), there's probably something wrong with them. Prot warrs are generally worst tanking class now, at least for patch, and he is hitting my OT bis warr for 25k max (he has 42k-ish hp). Even not-nearly-bis warrs are getting hit by 30-35k. max.

[Kermheat]

Patchwerk : Ok so tell me how to heal 65k actual hit on a 42k health tank ? I am really more keened to know how you heal that tank who has already died. And yea, those hateful strikes were continuous every second, we lost 2 OT, 1 MT, 5 MDPS in 7 Seconds. Wish we had made a video with a tag "What happens when Patchwerk gets cheated on by his abom girl". To repeat, all tanks were def capped.

For Noth : Agreed with shackles but dude 6 champions in almost single wave ? Forget about noth, we will do a full optimized class wise setup in next run

Anub : Did you actually read what i said and you just answered randomly ?


What can a hunter do if after MD he is not even able to hit the add. They were just like images, none was able to target them and hit them but they were hitting us.

I would really appreciate logs for the patchwerk claim. Not only do I believe the number you are reporting is inflated, it also sounds like that would be 'frenzied' damage unmitigated (no CDs being used properly)

[Renae]

@bloodshedsword here's the proof if you don't believe it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkd6HN0Cv1I (Holy Pala POV)
MT: Warforger
OTs: Jigodian and Bolf
You may notice both OTs have around 40k HP, and they are both dropping to 15k-25k while getting hit.

[bloodshedsword]

Prot warrs are generally worst tanking class now, at least for patch, and he is hitting my OT bis warr for 25k max (he has 42k-ish hp). Even not-nearly-bis warrs are getting hit by 30-35k. max.

I agree about prot wars on that part, it was a mistake to keep prot war as OT in my opinion.

Well, this week we will be capturing video as well and will post if anything is funny again.
I had talk with some guys in-game via global and the only thing they reported was "sometimes instance ID gets bugged for a fresh raid, disband the raid, change the leader and then go in again"
I highly doubt we faced same bug

As it is also mentioned on this forum thread above by Greedman

But i suspect what bloodshed reported was a one time bug or something like two weeks ago we went to instructor and he wasnt being mced by priests... For the whole duration of the id he couldnt be mced... Dunno what happened just this bug 2 weeks ago, then back to normal.. I guess sometimes something happens and the id gets bugged or soemthing and some things dont work correctly.. Also i think hateful cant crit, can it? So even with no def cap warrior would still not take 65k dmg so it must be a bug. But dunno...



Edit:92k on random people is pretty normal though thats how much it hits on leather and stuff...