Villains always loose, what do you think ?

[LikeDwind]

I just watched the not very recent video of Archimonde mythic first kill and i was thinking, very good boss, the fight is dynamic, he talks very cool but the predictability ruins it for me, i know he will loose and get killed, no matter what he says, like all the bosses before him which makes it in a way boring. It's definitely harder to think of a way how to make us the players loose by a boss since deleting our characters won't be very good for blizzard economy, but it's not impossible. For example they could have made it: Fighting the boss until the end of phase two and in phase tree boss gets serious and we are forced to escape from him. And if i was a paid blizzard employee thinking all day about raids i'm sure i will come up with many more unexpected situations other than killing the boss.
So what do you think, have you noticed this monotony in raids expansion after expansion and does it bothers you ?

[Mercy]

That's the thing. At the start of Legion, a lot of our powerful and strong "heroes" do actually lose to the Legion. However, losing in a raid? The players themselves? I think that'd be an interesting, though difficult, task to grapple.

At first glance, I wanted to respond with "Well, I think they should probably 'tighten' up."

[Autumn71808]

Interesting. Maybe a first boss encounter where you have to run away (losing) then you end up fighting him as last boss for the loot.

[Bioness]

That is because it isn't as satisfying to lose and have the boss live as it is to outright kill him for many players.

Halls of Reflection does what you are suggesting. There are also several fights where we don't "kill" the boss, even if we "beat" them (Kil'jaeden, C'thun, Yogg-Saron).

Really a game like World of Warcraft won't have many ways to have your character lose a fight without killing the boss soon after. Single player RPGs like Final Fantasy or Persona can pull it off, but not an MMO like this.

[Gwola]

I just watched the not very recent video of Archimonde mythic first kill and i was thinking, very good boss, the fight is dynamic, he talks very cool but the predictability ruins it for me, i know he will loose and get killed, no matter what he says, like all the bosses before him which makes it in a way boring. It's definitely harder to think of a way how to make us the players loose by a boss since deleting our characters won't be very good for blizzard economy, but it's not impossible. For example they could have made it: Fighting the boss until the end of phase two and in phase tree boss gets serious and we are forced to escape from him. And if i was a paid blizzard employee thinking all day about raids i'm sure i will come up with many more unexpected situations other than killing the boss.
So what do you think, have you noticed this monotony in raids expansion after expansion and does it bothers you ?

It's all rigged to fit a scenario , all the black and white thing good and bad whatever .

[Silverune]

what's rly annoying is that Gul'dan keeps escaping during the whole WoD expansion, several cutscenes in the legendary ring quest chain, endless draenor campaigns, a whole achievment roster designed to fighting gul'dan in draenor and in the end we still don;t get to kill him, he just gets transported to Azeroth by archimonde before dying, now there's a bad guy who just won't die

[Hagem]

I've thought of this too.
Somthing like this: The boss on X stage get really angry and make the dungeon go down with a timer and then he get teleported while we the player have to scape before the dungeon crash on us. The whole group have to run skiping obstacles and stuff, every time you face that boss the obstacles are diferent. The player that fail to scape get less of the rewards.

[Handepsilon]

That reminds me of what I heard about Lich King encounter. Last phase seems to be 'Screw you - *one-shot everyone*' but then Fordring to the rescue.

There should also be a few more dungeons where after we complete it, it turns out that we screwed up and helped the villains instead. There are lotsa quest chains like that, so why not put it to a dungeon? (Like Drakuru's Drak'Tharon chain I think)

[P4p3rz]

This is the last boss. Your life and boss's life share same hp pool. You heal raid, boss gets healed. Boss dies with your killing blow that means you die and boss resets. Killing it means only killing yourself.

The only way to kill it is to have the penultimate boss get the ultimate boss to fight each other. If you kill penultimate boss then last boss is not doable, coz u die killing it. You can't go to ultimate boss without killing penultimate boss. The way you can access ultimate boss is by utilizing penultimate boss's abilities to break the door to the last boss. That ability only comes when half the raid is already dead. When the door is broken someone battle rezzes one of the dead who can afford to rezz others because after that door breaking ability if someone is rezzes then they don't get in combat unless they get re-involved in the fight. This group which is now newly rezzes goes to final boss and gets it down to 98% which allows the boss to exit its boundaries so that the final boss can be brought to the previous ones, while the previous ones are still fighting the penultimate boss without killing it.

At this point the way two bosses gain each other's aggro is by raid dying. When the penultimate boss is at 5-10% ish it turns towards the raid for help and mass rezzes. The penultimate boss turns friendly where now it becomes a healing race. If you let the penultimate boss die you lose. If you heal it all the way up the hp sharing between you and final boss breaks and now you can start hitting the final boss. After this long fight, if can get boss till 80% till your mana runs out and raid wipes you get x loot. The further you get the % down, the more loot. You can never kill it since you cannot have so much resource of mana to keep yourself up.