Do they plan on releasing catch up dungeons?

[Touchooo]

I still highly disagree with you, Xemni. Obviously new people who get in good raiding guilds will get carried some gear, but I highly doubt you will ever have a group full of bad geared people doing content that was fresh a year ago on Lordaeron. The so called catch up dungeons aren't even necessarily such a big deal if you're going to need very good gear to get the raids done. You would still have to run for example Ulduar to get geared enough to do ToC, if the buffs are going to be as "hardcore" as they are at the moment.

I guess it is difficult to find out proper players from bad players on other realms, where the raids are not as difficult and you wont get handed free gear from dungeons (which is, btw, not even close to what you need to do the raids if the buffs stay the same) But I doubt it's going to be an issue at all in here, since you can just inspect the player and check their achievements and such. A player with full dungeon gear should ring some bells to be honest.

Of course the ideal situation would be that people raided Naxx and such later on to get geared for further dungeons, but I doubt anyone can say that it will happen with a straight face.

[SirManhammer]

Part of the reason to do a raid is because it's fun.. not just for loot. If people really want to do the lower tier raids when ICC comes out, they will. So the players who want to work their way through Naxx-ICC can absolutely do that with a little dedication and group finding skills, which isn't that hard on a bloated server.

Players who just want to hit 80 and jump in to ICC should have that option because, lets face it, most players can't be ***-deep in their computer chairs all day long farming tier after tier of raid gear.
This game is almost a decade old and has absolutely NO secrets left. You can find a guide on exactly how to gear your class, which buttons to press when, and where to run when fires on the ground.
On top of that, the majority of us playing here played on retail during WotLK and have some idea of what to expect during endgame. So the chances of a PUG raids failing because you're in a group full of high GS players who don't know wtf to do is slim.

Point being, it isn't fair to cut out content because of how it affected WotLK-retail. ....Also there's that really epic [Battered-Hilt] quest chain that you can only get from those pre-ICC dungeons which is reason alone to leave that content in play.

But also a huge damage/health buff to that content would be awesome, I mean lets make it worth doing if we're going to do it :3

[Xemni]

I still highly disagree with you, Xemni. Obviously new people who get in good raiding guilds will get carried some gear, but I highly doubt you will ever have a group full of bad geared people doing content that was fresh a year ago on Lordaeron. The so called catch up dungeons aren't even necessarily such a big deal if you're going to need very good gear to get the raids done. You would still have to run for example Ulduar to get geared enough to do ToC, if the buffs are going to be as "hardcore" as they are at the moment.

I guess it is difficult to find out proper players from bad players on other realms, where the raids are not as difficult and you wont get handed free gear from dungeons (which is, btw, not even close to what you need to do the raids if the buffs stay the same) But I doubt it's going to be an issue at all in here, since you can just inspect the player and check their achievements and such. A player with full dungeon gear should ring some bells to be honest.

Of course the ideal situation would be that people raided Naxx and such later on to get geared for further dungeons, but I doubt anyone can say that it will happen with a straight face.

Thats fine that you disagree, but what you're saying is still completely false, and your argument is poor. If players RIGHT NOW can build guilds and clear naxx, they will still be able to organize and do the same a year from now. Gear catchups do nothing, but bypass early content, and get you to the very end. In the last week, 3 new guilds have popped up all looking to start building Naxxramas cores. Ulduar is current content. Doesn't appear that the lack of gear catch ups have deterred these players at all from raiding.

the thing is what you wrote would be right; but not here. If someone starts up when icc is live here none will be willing to take him to this buffed nax to gear up and the only window of opurtunity for this player would be to find a guild thats willing to boost him in icc or toc. Tbh in two months i dont think il have the patience to boost more people through naxx.. Its boring and its overbuffed in a way that you wont have the patience to boost people in it in a month or two(considering your guild is already doing it for new recruits...)

How do you think things were done before Wrath and gear catch ups? and mind you, this was all during content that didn't have "hard modes" or size selections. There was no flexibility, and the raids were a set difficulty. People still raided from bottom to the top. I honestly think there are encounters from Retail TBC that were a lot harder than some of these overtuned bosses are here. Yet they still did them.

[Touchooo]

Thats fine that you disagree, but what you're saying is still completely false, and your argument is poor. If players RIGHT NOW can build guilds and clear naxx, they will still be able to organize and do the same a year from now. Gear catchups do nothing, but bypass early content, and get you to the very end. In the last week, 3 new guilds have popped up all looking to start building Naxxramas cores. Ulduar is current content. Doesn't appear that the lack of gear catch ups have deterred these players at all from raiding.

Of course people CAN do it, nothing will stop them, the question is: WILL people do it. It is not a surprise that people are still doing it "RIGHT NOW" because Ulduar was just released and a big portion of the realm's playerbase doesn't even have BiS preraid gear to be able to do those raids. Catching up from tier 7 to tier 8 content requires way less than catching up from tier 7 to tier 10.

Even if people did set up new guilds running the old content after ICC and such is released, I find it very unlikely people are willing to grind gear for months in order to be able to get to the level of the high-end content.

By the way, which are those 3 guilds? Haven't personally seen those. (Just wondering, some of my friends may find them useful)

[Touchooo]

How do you think things were done before Wrath and gear catch ups? and mind you, this was all during content that didn't have "hard modes" or size selections. There was no flexibility, and the raids were a set difficulty. People still raided from bottom to the top. I honestly think there are encounters from Retail TBC that were a lot harder than some of these overtuned bosses are here. Yet they still did them.

Most people didn't do it. And if there was capable enough players popping up that had the potential to raid at the highest level, they just got carried their gear. At least this is what happened to me, I never saw any lower tier raids being run in my old TBC realm, I just got carried by a guild to get my gear. (This was on a med - high populated realm)

[Bubbakushz]

This is completely false. My guild is just starting out here, and we're more than excited to start doing Naxxramas, despite current content being Ulduar, and it would of been the same regardless if it was ICC or not. The last time we rolled on a Wotlk server we were bummed that we couldn't even do Naxx or Uld, because the gear catch up dungeons completely removed the need to even do those raids. No one wanted to do them, so we couldn't even get a guild that wanted to farm them, or progress normally without touching catch up dungeons.

On top of that, look at the demand for Vanilla and TBC content. TBC offered isle of Quel Danas and badges, but even then, you didn't by pass Kara, and go straight into SWP. You still raided from the start, all the way to the end. Players STILL started at Kara, and moved up through content, while Black Temple and Mount Hyjal was on farm, and players were content with it, because it was still new to them, they were just starting out.

Catch ups DO NOT remove incentive for new players to start here. If anything, they hurt the population, and quality of players. Gear catch ups handed anyone an epic, and allowed them to skip raid content. They opened up raiding to players that had absolutely no raid awareness, it was like a flood gate of idiocy opened when stuff like this started popping up, especially coupled with Gearscore. You couldn't distinguish who was a seasoned raider anymore, or who just sat in those dungeons for loot, because someone out of Ulduar, or someone in catch up loot, were on par gear wise. Which is where a lot of people felt GS ruined the game, because you would literally either be inviting a complete ***** to the group, or a good player. You never knew. You almost literally never knew what you were getting. Before these catch up dungeons, when I saw someone walking around Dalaran decked in Ulduar raid gear, I at least knew the player was good, because not every guild is willing to drag dead weight through content and drop gear on them. It happened, but it didn't happen a lot.

On top of that, since you skipped TWO whole raid tiers and jumped into these dungeons, you effectively cut out half the end game PvE content, and half of what was there to do. So yeah, you can skip everything and go to ICC.. And youre done. I don't know about you, but if I just cleared current content, im' not about to start over on another toon and do it again. I'd literally get bored and quit. Starting at Naxx and working up to ICC would prolong a players stay here. Why would they quit after Naxx, if they had 3 more raid tiers of content after it?

Plenty of people will start at the bottom in a year, and ENJOY IT. This game isn't about how many corners you can cut, its about the journey, and for many, the journey starts at end game content. What kind of journey are you going on, when you literally bypass all of it, to do the final raid? You miss out on a lot. You should never be able to start a new account, and go straight to the "final boss" in a game like this, in a matter of weeks. If you think thats GOOD game play, than you're the reason we have Warlords of Draenor.

There is a reason a lot of players felt late Wrath was where World of Warcraft started to decline. That however, is a different discussion, and i'll just leave it at that.

/Thread, I think most agree with you.

[Xemni]

WILL people do it.

they will

Most people didn't do it.

they did

[Touchooo]

they will


they did

Lol, okay. I'm going to give up on you.