WotLK searching for a fury BiS list from elitejerks or MMOchampion

[Jakkre]

Does anybody knows a accurate fury BiS list which was calculated with a theorycrafting tool such as RAWR or Landsoul's?
I was looking at elitejerks and MMOchampion but all the links seem to be dead.

[densi77]

I don't think Fury warrior BiS lists leave many space for discussion:
4PT10 with Aldriana Hands
Shadowmourne, Glorenzelg, Fal'inrush
STS and DBW
Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance and Frostbrood Sapphire Ring
Coldwraith Links, Apocalypse Advance, Penumbra Pendant
The only two points up for discussion:
Toskk or Umbrage (with useless Haste but slightly more crit)
Vereesa Dexterity or Shadowvault Slayer's Cloak (again with Haste)
The differenc between the two (or 4 in total possibilities) is very small. If I get the time, I might set up rawr to run an optimization again. The thing is, it depends on so many factors, for example, depending on what buffs your raid has to offer, different gear might be BiS.

[Jakkre]

Ty.
So this bis gear list seems accurate: http://worldofwarcraftwarrior.blogsp...-list-335.html
As enh shami its possible to be over the melee crit cap. Is such a thing also as fury possible?

[jendah]

Ty.
So this bis gear list seems accurate: http://worldofwarcraftwarrior.blogsp...-list-335.html
As enh shami its possible to be over the melee crit cap. Is such a thing also as fury possible?

They are mostly correct. First one is skipping tosks as a variant to umbridge - which is a mistake imho (I found out both tosks and vereesas superior to their respective counterparts since they allow you to get more str gems -> more total ap). In second list swap legs for "hunter" ones from ldw.


Yes, but it's not that relevant. Fury's MH attacks are converted to special's hit cap due to Heroic Strike, so crit cap affects only OH swings.

[Qtinz]

Ty.
So this bis gear list seems accurate: http://worldofwarcraftwarrior.blogsp...-list-335.html
As enh shami its possible to be over the melee crit cap. Is such a thing also as fury possible?

Technically it is. But unlike an Enhance Shaman Warriors don't rely on their white swings as much. Most of your white swings will be Heroic Strikes and by that affected by the special crit cap, which is 100% (104.8% if you believe in crit suppression - calculating with 100% is enough for white swings, though). You don't have to expect the same dmg loss as you would on an Enhancement Shaman. In reality it's pretty hard to extend this crit on a warrior anyways. You have to take more agility leather gear to obtain it. And thus lose a lot of AP/Strength, which in my experience is a bad trade off even if glancing blows are bugged (I don't know if it is fixed on the new core).

Considering your list: Taking the RS wrists or the GS cloak is an option no good warrior I know uses. They seem pretty strong in a vacuum like comparison, but in the list they are easily beaten by DBS wrists and TOGC cloak.

[Selaya]

Last time I checked the reason why Warriors aren`t spamming Leather was precisely because of the crit cap which made excess crit a rather subpar stat, so yes this is the reason, iirc.

[Jakkre]

Okay thanks.

A few question regarding ability prioritys:
Do use execute over slam when the boss is low on health or no execute at all?
Is it worth to use http://wotlk.openwow.com/spell=34428 or is it just a waisted GCD?
Do u use charge or intercept at the start of a fight?
Right now I use charge followed by rend and then I switch to Berserker Stance.

[jendah]

Last time I checked the reason why Warriors aren`t spamming Leather was precisely because of the crit cap which made excess crit a rather subpar stat, so yes this is the reason, iirc.

Yes, that's why we use plate belt instead of PP leather one. Controversial items (back and wrists) do not remove any crit from fury gear, they actually trade haste for str (they don't have arpen - so you have to gem more of it instead of str).

Okay thanks.

A few question regarding ability prioritys:
Do use execute over slam when the boss is low on health or no execute at all?
Is it worth to use http://wotlk.openwow.com/spell=34428 or is it just a waisted GCD?
Do u use charge or intercept at the start of a fight?
Right now I use charge followed by rend and then I switch to Berserker Stance.

1) At start execute > slam. As you are nearing bis slam does more dmg. Be careful not to ragestarve yourself - cheap executes are most rage-efficient ones.
2) Just in frees and not over slam. (Fury unlike enha has a lot of frees in rotation -> they are used for abilities like Heroic Throw, Sunder Armor, Shout refresh, Victory Rush, Frag Belt...)
3) Charge + Rend start sounds good. Be careful, not to waste too much of your trinket procs time.

[Jakkre]

2) Just in frees and not over slam. (Fury unlike enha has a lot of frees in rotation -> they are used for abilities like Heroic Throw, Sunder Armor, Shout refresh, Victory Rush, Frag Belt...)

So u use slam only when its instant?
Isnt it worth to cast slam in between ur auto attack swings?

[jendah]

So u use slam only when its instant?
Isnt it worth to cast slam in between ur auto attack swings?

Yes.
Casting slam should be a sizeable dps loss. It should reset your swing timer -> create extra delay between autos. (Not sure about current bugs.)

[DarkenedHue]

I'll just quickly run through some points other people brought up that I'd like to touch on:

- Haste is anything but terrible for Fury. The stat has a very solid weightage once you've passed your crit cap. That's the reason spreadsheets compute Umbrage Armbands to be slightly superior. The caveat that bears nothing here is this: the simulations involved in these results tend to usually only model strict single-target encounters. If, say, you wanted to incorporate some periods of multi-target DPS in those spreadsheets so as to better approximate certain elements of an actual encounter, then I'm not entirely sure yet how those stat weightages would change, though my hunch is that Haste would only get relatively better any time a warrior is allowed to use a glyphed Cleave (and it should be glyphed for most serious ICC raiders).

- Any time an encounter is initiated and you're put in combat, you lose your ability to charge anyways. Your early Auto-attack swings usually also provide you the rage you need to get your rotation started. Switching stances right at the start makes it so you lose most of the rage you generated from them while you were Rending, and then you might not have enough rage to start your actual rotation smoothly. Just pop Bloodrage some time before the encounter starts then intercept.

- Victory Rush is free damage for any time you find yourself having a free GCD.

- On a properly functioning server you'd never want to hardcast Slam. Prior to the core update, however, you were able to game Slam-hardcasting for a DPS gain under certain circumstances, because while it would prevent your auto-attacks from going off, it wouldn't actually pause their timers. Don't bother with this, though. It's illegitimate Fury play, and if it isn't already fixed, will likely get fixed soon enough anyways.

[Jakkre]

Yes.
Casting slam should be a sizeable dps loss. It should reset your swing timer -> create extra delay between autos. (Not sure about current bugs.)

I just tested it on the dummy and it seems that slam doesnt reset ur swing timer. Its not possible to execute a auto attack during the 1,5 sec cast time of slam but the auto attack is executed straight after the casting is done.
So if u cast slam in between ur auto attack swings it shouldnt affect ur auto attack speed in a negative way.
Im kinda curious if it would be a dps gain to just use three dmg abilitys: bloodthirst, Whirlwind and slam in between the auto attacks.

[jendah]

- Haste is anything but terrible for Fury. The stat has a very solid weightage once you've passed your crit cap. That's the reason spreadsheets compute Umbrage Armbands to be slightly superior. The caveat that bears nothing here is this: the simulations involved in these results tend to usually only model strict single-target encounters. If, say, you wanted to incorporate some periods of multi-target DPS in those spreadsheets so as to better approximate certain elements of an actual encounter, then I'm not entirely sure yet how those stat weightages would change, though my hunch is that Haste would only get relatively better any time a warrior is allowed to use a glyphed Cleave (and it should be glyphed for most serious ICC raiders).

Haste isn't bad stat for fury - noone says that, my point is that str is better - and that's most of the trade you do (crit cap has nothing to do with it).

http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=47545 + http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50670
ap: 114 + 120 = 234
crit: 65 + 60 = 125
agi: 97 + 102 = 199
arpen: 57 + 68 = 125

http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50653 + http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=54580
ap: 120 + 113 = 233
crit: 60 + 73 = 133
agi: 102 + 109 = 211
haste: 68 + 73 = 141

Difference:
By equipping haste offsets you gain 8 crit, 12 agi, 141 haste and loose 125 str (since arp > str and you need to switch gems). Those offsets actually give you more crit pushing you further above crit cap and haste, while making you loose str (more, but weaker autos & weaker abilities).

It's nice that on paper (spreadsheet) more haste (and a bit of crit) outperforms str you get by getting arpen gear. And on some bosses it might actually work that way. Fights that matter are not static to use full value of haste, instead you do more dmg with your abilities. I have tried both and I did slightly more dps with arp ones, that's why I recommend them.

[Selaya]

but that exactly is the point 1 str -> 1 haste tradeoff is bad 1 str -> 1.2 haste tradeoff isn`t bad (meaningless example numbers used but you get the point)

also there are only 2 realistic str/agi tradeoffs you could make, the belt you mentioned and the ring

[jendah]

but that exactly is the point 1 str -> 1 haste tradeoff is bad 1 str -> 1.2 haste tradeoff isn`t bad (meaningless example numbers used but you get the point)

Yes, it isn't bad tradeoff with those 2 items; it isn't good either. Both come almost the same on paper and in game it depends on fight. In addition delaying one BT/WW by 0.5s will hurt your dps way more than any difference in those 2 items. Choose whatever you think will work for you better - I mentioned my choice and reasons for it.

also there are only 2 realistic str/agi tradeoffs you could make, the belt you mentioned and the ring

Exactly! There is no option to meaningfully trade crit for haste, only crit for AP or haste for AP. (agi ring offers more in terms off dps stats, cause blizz item budgets and less stamina)

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What I wanted to show by comparing those items is, that changing arp ones for haste ones because you reached crit cap is nonsense. (I am over crit cap, so let's get more crit...)