Please Help me to build BIS PvP Rogue WOTLK

[djprada]

Hi Guys,

Are there any experience rogues out there who can help me with the BIS Gear list for Sub PvP?

I would greatly appreciate it

[purr4g]

Since you do not specify exactly BiS for exactly which PvP situation I will cover everything:

Full wrath, all cloaks and necks, t2 weaps (MH: 1.8 Spike OH: 1.5speed appropriate to your race -or aesthetics-)
T10HC Head + Chest, Skinned Whelp shoulders HC, Bladeborn Leggings, Sindragosa's Cruel Claw HC, Vereesa's Dexterity HC, Toskk's Maximized Wristguards HC, Astrylian's Sutured Cinch HC, Frostbitten Fur Boots HC, Signet of Twilight HC, Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance, Heaven's Fall HC, Scourgeborne Waraxe HC (lungbreaker hc if you must use a dagger, but it's technically worse), STS HC, WFS HC, Corroded Skeleton Key, Bauble of True Blood, DV HC, DBW HC, Relentless Gladiator's Band of Victory, Marshal's Leather Footguards, Sindragosa's Flawless Fang, Stormpike Insignia Rank 6

I can't generally recommend using anything other than wrathful gloves, however if you choose to do so, you will want Aldriana's gloves of secrecy HC and duplicate Bladeborn legs and another item to gem AP (since it would only be reasonable to use them in pure burst setups with full pve gear, where you would already hit arp cap without them, unless you aren't gemming arp for some reason.)

Don't forget to ToTT all the time when you're wearing 2pct10.

Don't use a non thrown weapon, unless you're a cretin.

Food for though: DBW HC is my joint least used trinket.

[Gyoza]

I just have a question to throw here. Isn't rimetooth pendant hc better for sub rogues than sindragosa's flawless fang hc? Trading haste for crit?

[djprada]

Since you do not specify exactly BiS for exactly which PvP situation I will cover everything:

Full wrath, all cloaks and necks, t2 weaps (MH: 1.8 Spike OH: 1.5speed appropriate to your race -or aesthetics-)
T10HC Head + Chest, Skinned Whelp shoulders HC, Bladeborn Leggings, Sindragosa's Cruel Claw HC, Vereesa's Dexterity HC, Toskk's Maximized Wristguards HC, Astrylian's Sutured Cinch HC, Frostbitten Fur Boots HC, Signet of Twilight HC, Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance, Heaven's Fall HC, Scourgeborne Waraxe HC (lungbreaker hc if you must use a dagger, but it's technically worse), STS HC, WFS HC, Corroded Skeleton Key, Bauble of True Blood, DV HC, DBW HC, Relentless Gladiator's Band of Victory, Marshal's Leather Footguards, Sindragosa's Flawless Fang, Stormpike Insignia Rank 6

I can't generally recommend using anything other than wrathful gloves, however if you choose to do so, you will want Aldriana's gloves of secrecy HC and duplicate Bladeborn legs and another item to gem AP (since it would only be reasonable to use them in pure burst setups with full pve gear, where you would already hit arp cap without them, unless you aren't gemming arp for some reason.)

Don't forget to ToTT all the time when you're wearing 2pct10.

Don't use a non thrown weapon, unless you're a cretin.

Food for though: DBW HC is my joint least used trinket.

Thanks a lot for all the help. Is 5/5 Wrath a must? How strong SUB is with 70% arp +? What ideal arp% should I aim for?

[Snoosnoo]

I just have a question to throw here. Isn't rimetooth pendant hc better for sub rogues than sindragosa's flawless fang hc? Trading haste for crit?

Depends, you will sacrifice: 12 agilty, 23 stamina, 7 AP, 8 ARP, and the useless haste for 52 crit rating which is like a full 1.1% or so.
In my opinion it's not worth it with all the resil stackers on this server, but you can do what you want.

[Ricks2]

Thanks a lot for all the help. Is 5/5 Wrath a must? How strong SUB is with 70% arp +? What ideal arp% should I aim for?

Rogue's are very flexible when it comes to gear. It depends on what you intend to run and what you wanna do. I'd say run 5/5 wrath if you focus on arena, run 4/5 if you wanna BG mostly. But you always want a full pve off set, you can argue about cruel claw vs wful arp neck, but that's about it. When it comes to gemming, if you run AP stack, go with STS + DV, if it's arp run with STS + DBW. DBW overall isn't optimal for many reasons, but the fact that i has 2 good proccs for you and at a certain point the passive arp just purely outvalues DV's AP makes it a winner at high end gear. DV is techincally a more optimal trinket, if it wasn't for the fact that it proccs off god damn everything and often messes up your opener due to being on CD from going afk to take a ****ing ****. And the ideal arp is as much as you can squeeze out, the more you can get while keeping your overall resil to your liking is the sweet spot. And please, for the love of everything that's holy, follow this advice:

Don't use a non thrown weapon, unless you're a cretin.

[purr4g]

Rimefang is almost always worse. The stats mentioned above AND the haste, which, although weak, is not useless. Combine your recounts over many hours of doing what it is that you intend to do (BG solo/BG always with heal/Arena 2s/3s/different comps are not equivalent for haste value), then math out the extra cripple procs and the extra melee and wp damage, now figure out how much ap that is equivalent to. In the unlikely case that you find that for your stats doing what you intend to do, the value of the haste and other stats is not superior to the extra rimefang crit, then by all means go and use the rimefang. P.S. for judging the above stats it's clearer when one assumes standard AP and AGI bonuses from sub spec, then splits the AGI into AP and crit, then cancel out the crit and sum the AP.

When chosing which items to go to wrath to gain res (don't forget about gemming res though, it's almost always worth it if it allows you to keep more pve items) the order is:

The set: it's i270 and still has agi. If you are optimizing purely for arena then 4 or 5 pc wrath and a load of res gemming/enchanting is all you'll ever need, with maybe the neck, as rickz said. No you don't need 5/5. You can happily gem and enchant your way to sufficient res as human with 4/5 wrath with t10hc chest or head, however if you chose to gain res from gear changes to wrath of any kind then the optimal option after 4/5 is 5/5.

After the set: Neck (special case of switching to non agi item, due to the haste on sindra and the value of ArP), Feet, Waist, Wrists, Offhand (i277).

After this point I have not figured out what is optimal at each stage, only what is optimal for two other points of res in my exact situation which consists of: arp in all pve gear, res in all pvp gear, no regemming ever. Point 1 involves changing MH and Vereesa's to wrath. Point 2 involves switching in wrath and rele rings and wrath thrown, and changing the neck and cloak to hit. 1509 res as human in that final setup. Little dmg, much lulz, much lul vanish pve gear rek.

@rickz Yea the DV is actually what the DBW is joint least used with in my case :) The proc from wtf all **** pisses me off but ye the DBW passive is clearly superior in all reasonably high ArP situations.

I actually generally run STS + WFS for max bursty proc with guaranteed awesome proc instead of 1/3 awesome 1/3 ok 1/3 qq with even longer in between and less frequent proc stacking. However, nowadays I am mostly a BG whore tailor/engineer so I like my proc whoring. I tend to run all that pve gear arp gemmed, with wrath gloves for 100% arp with STS + WFS for guaranteed big AP procs as my "does dem dmgz" setup. I could see myself using a DBW for arena, but I would consider that more thoroughly only if an old partner returns.

I often use near pure wrath all gemmed with res for traveling in BGs/world or defending/flag running in BGs (1.36-1.5k res with key + bauble, sometimes sindra fang if I popped a trink recently already) Don't use this kind of ridiculously low damage stuff if you can't switch out of it at will (e.g. arena). It can actually be great fun to play pure "ghey on teh enemiz rage quit rogueez" in premade in that very defensive gear, focusing on stunning, interrupting disarming, poisoning etc every bastard you can. Everyone hates rogues, almost no one expects 1.5k res on a rogue with heals being focused on it, you have nice defensive cds, if you're left alone you're going to make their group miserable even without damage. This makes for some very effective tanking (having everyone focus on damaging you) / ****ting on their heal(s) etc. Oh and if you're doing this then dance is for cheapshot / garrote. **** damage. Oh and don't be selfish with that bauble, use it to save your heals if anything appears to be dangerous :3

Ugh why did I waste my damn time writing any of this.... must keep off forums... maybe I should go get a perma forum ban on this alt account I started using after getting a perma forum ban for combining the acronym for vocal laughter and the name of a different server... and comparing this server favourably to the laughable server... guess it's mods jobs to stop me from deriding other server :O Anyway, I need a ban. Waste far too much time writing down what it takes a few seconds to think and which is usually only properly understood only by people who don't need to read it in the first place...

-love catnip

[djprada]

Hey Purr,

Thank you so much for your recommendation,. Much love <3

[purr4g]

BTW, even as human you can go 4/5 (use the t10hc head not the chest!) and get to 859 res. This is with 75ap 22crit leg enchant, 20res 20arp chest gemming and the rest all but one slot res gemmed.

The reason this setup is rarely done is because most rogues either:

1) PvE and want to keep most of their pve gear pure arp gemmed (or in some cases even optimally pve gemmed)
2) Like their kek dmg low/no res setup and so they keep their pve gear pure arp gemmed.
3) It's cheaper/faster/less boring to NOT get 13 heroic pve items.
4) Know their and their partner's abilities are more important than the few extra stats you can squeeze out.