Tauren vs Dwarves.

[Unholymoly]

How can I make this any simpler? Forsaken don't have shamans because they're primarily human and elves, who have no experience with being shamans. It has nothing to do with them being undead. If you replace humans with trolls and make an undead troll faction, undead shamans are an absolute certainty. You have this completely wrong understanding of how the elements function, they're not a benevolent force that despises undeath, they're just a bunch of powerful dicks who lend their powers to whomever they see fit, they're the former minions of the Old Gods. Goblin shamans bribe the elementals to use their powers for god's sake. This is the last time I'm gonna point this out.




I have a feeling you don't quite grasp the size of Lordaeron or the fact Arthas' Scourge forces were entirely concentrated on the northern Eastern Kingdoms, which is about 70% Lordaeron. This is why the overwhelming majority of Forsaken are humans and elves, because that's what Arthas killed the most. Are there members of other races among the Forsaken? Obviously. Does that somehow mean that the Forsaken "aren't that closely tied to Lordaeron"? Absolute tosh.

Also, Draenor orc shamans weren't denied by the elements because they practiced dark magic, they were denied because they were tricked into killing draenei by Kil'jaeden. Draenei had shaman of their own, which is why the elements didn't want to help in slaughtering their own servants. It is after the orc shamans got denied that they rerolled warlocks.




Oh, so dark shaman are not shaman? Why are they called dark shaman then? Wowwiki really isn't doing you any favors, mate.



How am I supposed to give you facts when you consider your personal opinion a fact and any actual facts that don't coincide with it are suddenly my personal opinion? Here are some actual facts for you:

1. There's no reason an undead can't use the power of the elements, unlike the Light, most elements don't care.
2. Forsaken are primarily Lordaeron humans.
3. An entire race can force the elements to lend them power, an entire race can also bribe the elements to lend them power.
4. "Dark shaman" are shaman.

All of these are facts that you don't consider facts for whatever reason and since I can't really seem to convince you of this, condescending mockery is the only thing keeping me interested in this conversation. You better appreciate.

I do grasp the size of Lordaeron, yet I have a feeling that you don't realize what I am talking about. It doesn't matter how many numbers represent a race in the Scourge, the undead, the Forsaken. I am talking about how many races there are, and there are many. Some had that shamanistic past you mention human and elves don't. They still don't practice shamanism post-death. Once turned undead they turn against most of the things they liked while they were living, especially the things they believed in (I mean obvious reasons?). The only thing some of them (very rare in lore, more common in games) kept doing post-death is using the Light to heal as holy priests. It's explained by a Blizzard moderator that it is a rare case and that they feel pain although getting physically healed and that most of them choose to mock the Light instead. Now if that happened in the lore and shamanism didn't, it means that they simply don't care about it and never will (Blizzard don't. Just don't.)

You are completely right when you say that the elements denied shamans on Draenor during the slaughter of the Draenei. You forgot that at the time Kil'jaeden put a demonic barrier around Oshu'gun thus cutting the ancestors and the Naaru off. Something makes me think that the elements felt no need to serve the new formed warlocks and wouldn't respond if called upon, might just be me.

Goblin. Shamans. Can we just hop over that topic please? I mean it's already hard for me not to argue about that part of the new lore.
Shhhhhhh. No.

Finally, the dark shaman are shaman just as much as the undead human are human. Two sides of the same coin. Death =/= Life, Decay =/= Spirit.
I mean you can still say it's the same if you honestly think so, it's on you.

[AurieI]

Which do you consider to have the most powerful army?

Sadly, Dwarves. In reality, it could be compared to Cowboys VS Buffalos.

Between Dwarves and Humans I would preffer Humans. And between Gnomes and Dwarves I would preffer Gnomes. But between a Human Male Retribution Paladin and a Female Dwarf Holy Paladin, the Dwarf would choose me, even if I wanted to go with the Human.

Anyways... I play Tauren Resto Druid just for 1 thing, the /moo emote. Taurens are the only race that have this emote with sound available. The /train sound that the male Tauren does is a bonus.

I do not care about lore.

[Mercy]

Finally, the dark shaman are shaman just as much as the undead human are human. Two sides of the same coin. Death =/= Life, Decay =/= Spirit.
I mean you can still say it's the same if you honestly think so, it's on you.

That's not quite proper. The difference between Shaman and Dark Shaman is the same as the difference between Blood Knights prior to the restoration of the sunwell and Paladins. Blood Knights are still Paladins. Dark Shamans are still Shamans.
Next you'll be telling me the Mag'har aren't Orcs.

I do grasp the size of Lordaeron, yet I have a feeling that you don't realize what I am talking about. It doesn't matter how many numbers represent a race in the Scourge, the undead, the Forsaken. I am talking about how many races there are, and there are many. Some had that shamanistic past you mention human and elves don't. They still don't practice shamanism post-death. Once turned undead they turn against most of the things they liked while they were living, especially the things they believed in (I mean obvious reasons?). The only thing some of them (very rare in lore, more common in games) kept doing post-death is using the Light to heal as holy priests. It's explained by a Blizzard moderator that it is a rare case and that they feel pain although getting physically healed and that most of them choose to mock the Light instead. Now if that happened in the lore and shamanism didn't, it means that they simply don't care about it and never will (Blizzard don't. Just don't.)

Forsaken do not get "physically healed" by 'The Holy Light'. It burns them, turns them to ash. The reason the Forsaken started a shadow cult in the first place, is not due to their beliefs, but due to the fact that it is shadow magic that heals them - not holy magic.

How did this thread get derailed anyway?

[Zugasfuk]

i dont wanna say who really is the orc here

[Mercy]

i dont wanna say who really is the orc here

Then why are you posting? Much less from an alt account to pretend you're someone else?

[Unholymoly]

Forsaken do not get "physically healed" by 'The Holy Light'. It burns them, turns them to ash. The reason the Forsaken started a shadow cult in the first place, is not due to their beliefs, but due to the fact that it is shadow magic that heals them - not holy magic.

How did this thread get derailed anyway?

Spoiler: Show

'The wound is healed' - Physically healed. So no, they don't use shadow to heal, they use the Light.

And Dark Shaman topic is nothing more than a matter of opinion.
You wanna consider them shamans even though they do complete opposite things? Okay, you have a fine point. Yet I choose to believe the human-undead contrast sooner than what you mentioned.

Oh, just saw your Mag'har sentence. Would make more sense if you asked me if I think all the other orcs aren't orcs except the Mag'har since they are basically the only orcs that hadn't gone through physical and mental transformations because they never drank the blood of Mannoroth(nor Magtheridon). Not the best example that you could of brought up but I understand your point.

[Mubashir16]

Taurens are just stupid cows, moooooo.

[tasto]

Taurens are just stupid cows, moooooo.

if tauren are stupid, all races are, to raise your intellect you just need to equip some cloths
btw stop with this insane OT on lore, nobody cares, dwarves have the best army compared to taurens.

[DamnOriginal]

if tauren are stupid, all races are, to raise your intellect you just need to equip some cloths
btw stop with this insane OT on lore, nobody cares, dwarves have the best army compared to taurens.

If nobody cares then how come there's people caring about it? Checkmate, third graders.

Like I said, not much of a discussion when the answer to OP's question is so obvious even this guy got it.

[Laethea]

Tauren are by far the least militaristic race out of any of the playable ones, there's also less of them and they can't fit through doors, combine all that and you get a people that almost got wiped to extinction by lvl 30 centaurs.

It's this anti-bovine mentality that resulted in there only being one mailbox in Thunder Bluff.

At least Tauren are a natural race and not some freakish stone people with a curse.

Cow Nation. Represent.

[DamnOriginal]

It's this anti-bovine mentality that resulted in there only being one mailbox in Thunder Bluff.

See, they tried giving Thunder Bluff more mailboxes but the tauren there just kept getting stuck on them.

[Mercy]

It's this anti-bovine mentality that resulted in there only being one mailbox in Thunder Bluff.

At least Tauren are a natural race and not some freakish stone people with a curse.

Cow Nation. Represent.

>anti-bovine mentality
Um? Nobody here is anti-bovine. You can even go ask the Blood Elves what they think about Thunder Bluff. Would you say no to Burgers and Steak?

>At least Tauren are a natural race and not some freakish stone people with a curse.
So, a talking cow isn't freakish? Do you like it when your steak talks back at you?

[Madgamer]

wew...it took quite some time to get to the end of this heated conversation. Didn't expect this thread to be soo hot. But really, I'm quite amazed that in all that 2-3 pages of discussion regarding who is and who isn't and who can and who cannot be a shaman, nobody gave reference to far seer nobundo (for those who don't know who he is, he is a dranei holy paladin, a Vindicator in the Hand of Argus, in the dranei community when they still held grand cities like shattrah and karabor but became a broken during the siege of shattrah due to exposure to the blood mist and lost his ability to wield light but gained shamanic powers instead while being a broken not to mention how he was shunned by his own people whom he bravely defended that caused his deterioration in to a broken) as he gives u the perfect example of answering all those questions and as far as I understand the ordeal that he went through, it is that the elements only judge your worth as their vassal before opening up to u (which allows you to commune to them and wield their powers tldr; be a shaman) and not whether you are a beautiful or intelligent or experienced being / race that has ancient ties with communing with the elements / nature.

Anyways as far as the topic is concerned, dwarfs bruh no point in even doubting that. The tauren are too laid back for their own good. Of course they are a deadly foe if they are enraged but they are by far a very peaceful race that aims to maintain their status quo the same (other than one clan that is) while dwarfs dont have any such inhibitions and get easily triggered thanks to the political scheming that their leaders are used to. (proved by the extreme infighting between the clans)

This is just one man's humble opinion anyways. Ultimately if Chris decides to make tauren wipe out ironforge even though its logically impossible, I'm sure he will find some excuse to do that (although that would be destroying the product).

[Delenis]

This is just one man's humble opinion anyways. Ultimately if Chris decides to make tauren wipe out ironforge even though its logically impossible, I'm sure he will find some excuse to do that (although that would be destroying the product).

Chris Metzen left blizzard some months ago.

[Anorien16]

Well Tauren's might have won against a single Clan in St. Patrick's Day because of some miracle. But against the 3 Hammers? Not a chance. Even the First Horde with their huge numbers and comparable to Tauren strength could make a scratch against the Siege of Ironforge and it was just the Bronezebeard Clan. Then there is the flying Wildhammers and crazy Dark Irons to consider.