WotLK human double trinket advantage pvp

[Jakkre]

Lets see what impact cross-realm pvp with Blackrock gonna have on Icecrown.
The vast majority of Blackrock plays human so the faction imbalance in BGs will be further increased.
I can already see BiS geared donor humans from Icecrown fighting in BGs side on side with full rele starter geared humans from Blackrock against fresh 80 hordys who are just getting rdy for PvE.
It gonna be like in 300 but the spartans outnumber the persians.

I for one will definitely multibox on horde side to bring some balance to this fight.
In case of 300 that would be a third war party called "the macedonian phalanx" which roles in perfect sync over the battlefield, killing everything on its way.

[Skoobydoo]

Yeah, there's no way Alliance can stay competitive without this broken racial...

Spoiler: Show

the server was completely overrun and dominated by horde at its release,they give alliance free transfer from horde,higher XP rate,free flying mount,x2 more honor and bonus reputation gain.and regardless of this insane bonuses horde population was still a bit higher.
you know all this but you make your post only for the sake of arguing...lame.

[DamnOriginal]

PvP is a side-activity. That's not a matter of personal opinion, it's a fact easily verifiable by the ridiculously overwhelming difference in content for PvE and PvP. Denying that is plain and simple showing self-inflicted blindness.

If side activity in your world for some reason means the activity that governs the only other form of competition and gear progression aside from PvE, then sure. Otherwise, no. A PvPer who dabbles in PvE might consider PvE a side activity because he's far more interested in pursuing the second form of challenge and progression. You just end up sounding like someone who really doesn't like PvP and tries to pass his own, flawed opinion as fact. There's also a very obvious difference in how much content is required to keep PvE engaging compared to PvP. Of course PvE is going to have more "content" when it has to create the scripted challenges from scratch while in PvP that challenge is automatically substituted with other players.

About I calling it whining, it comes from the demonstrated inability to understand Every Man for Himself isn't going to be removed; it isn't going to be tweaked; it isn't going to be replaced. It will stay as it is because that's how the game was in Wrath of the Lich King. This thread is left be on the basis of it being people arguing and theorizing over "what if" scenarios that aren't going to happen.

Retail Wrath had 80-90% Alliance dominance in arena? I wasn't aware of that.

the server was completely overrun and dominated by horde at its release,they give alliance free transfer from horde,higher XP rate,free flying mount,x2 more honor and bonus reputation gain.and regardless of this insane bonuses horde population was still a bit higher.
you know all this but you make your post only for the sake of arguing...lame.

I showed you the current Outland arena ladder to demonstrate that Alliance doesn't need a racial that is 15 times better than other racials to stay competitive in arena. That argument is completely inane. Regardless of what measures were taken to balance the overall faction numbers, if Horde racials were so much better, we would see a clear trend of more Horde arena teams at higher rates than Alliance ones because of the inherent advantage, which we don't. What we actually see is that when overall faction numbers are roughly balanced without EMFH, racials between factions are very comparable with one another.

[Skoobydoo]

I showed you the current Outland arena ladder to demonstrate that Alliance doesn't need a racial that is 15 times better than other racials to stay competitive in arena. That argument is completely inane. Regardless of what measures were taken to balance the overall faction numbers, if Horde racials were so much better, we would see a clear trend of more Horde arena teams at higher rates than Alliance ones because of the inherent advantage, which we don't. What we actually see is that when overall faction numbers are roughly balanced without EMFH, racials between factions are very comparable with one another.

all you prove so far is that competitive players are competitive regardless of the racial,that don't change the fact that almost all of this players picked the horde side originally and the only reason they transfer to alliance was because they literally got bribe to do so.you can argue as much as you want but the facts are facts,PVP players pick alliance in WOTLK and horde in TBC and they have good reason for this choices.

[Ostlimpa]

I sincerely believe it is time for you two to grab the wood-clubs and solve this in a more civilized manner!

[DamnOriginal]

all you prove so far is that competitive players are competitive regardless of the racial,that don't change the fact that almost all of this players picked the horde side originally and the only reason they transfer to alliance was because they literally got bribe to do so.you can argue as much as you want but the facts are facts,PVP players pick alliance in WOTLK and horde in TBC and they have good reason for this choices.

That's the whole point. Competitive players should be allowed to stay competitive regardless of the faction they play at but currently there's no other server that penalizes PvPers as bad as Icecrown does for not picking human. There is no racial on Outland that comes even close to creating this kind of disparity in PvP. This is why a lot of competitive PvPers actually left Icecrown for Outland, because good players know the situation on Outland is much more balanced and a large part of that is owed to the absence of EMFH. The faction spread at launch was just a launch blunder, these things can happen with fresh servers just by the virtue of RNG but Outland was particularly prone to it because a significant part of its player base came from a server where they were fed up with being forced to play Alliance in PvP. Now that the population has been normalized, we can actually see how competitive racials are between each other without EMFH and the difference is staggering.

[Obnoxious]

If side activity in your world for some reason means the activity that governs the only other form of competition and gear progression aside from PvE, then sure. Otherwise, no. A PvPer who dabbles in PvE might consider PvE a side activity because he's far more interested in pursuing the second form of challenge and progression. You just end up sounding like someone who really doesn't like PvP and tries to pass his own, flawed opinion as fact. There's also a very obvious difference in how much content is required to keep PvE engaging compared to PvP. Of course PvE is going to have more "content" when it has to create the scripted challenges from scratch while in PvP that challenge is automatically substituted with other players.

World of Warcraft is a PvE game with PvP content. The quests, the leveling, the gearing, the storytelling, the exploration, the getting to know the world of the game you're playing, it's all focused on PvE. PvP is a side-activity to the PvE game. This isn't a personal opinion, this is a simple fact anyone without the already mentioned blindness can see.

Now, on the other hand, taking issue with having a personal favorite be called a side-activity is much more about ego/insecurity related personal issues. I assure you there's nothing wrong or shameful about preferring or even only liking a side-activity of a game focused on something else. Calling something a side-activity is stating a fact, not "talking you down."

Retail Wrath had 80-90% Alliance dominance in arena? I wasn't aware of that.

Thank you for exemplifying why I call it whining. And right after I detailed why I do so, nonetheless.

[Jakkre]

World of Warcraft is a PvE game with PvP content. The quests, the leveling, the gearing, the storytelling, the exploration, the getting to know the world of the game you're playing, it's all focused on PvE. PvP is a side-activity to the PvE game. This isn't a personal opinion, this is a simple fact anyone without the already mentioned blindness can see.

Its not a fact, its your personal opinion.
Fact is that since vanilla there is a big playerbase that has its focus on PvP and doesn't raid at all.
I for one play WoW since its release and my focus was always on PvP.
If PvP was only a side activity don't you think I would be bored by now after doing it for 13 years?
I consider things like twinking a side activity but definitely not PvP in its whole.

[Obnoxious]

Its not a fact, its your personal opinion.
Fact is that since vanilla there is a big playerbase that has its focus on PvP and doesn't raid at all.
I for one play WoW since its release and my focus was always on PvP.
If PvP was only a side activity don't you think I would be bored by now after doing it for 13 years?
I consider things like twinking a side activity but definitely not PvP in its whole.

A lot of people doing a side-activity doesn't changes the fact it's a side-activity for what the game offers as a whole, just makes it a popular side-activity. You bringing up boredom if it was a side-activity just makes me point out my previous second paragraph.

[Jakkre]

A lot of people doing a side-activity doesn't changes the fact it's a side-activity for what the game offers as a whole, just makes it a popular side-activity.

Its called side activity when u spend less time with it than with ur main activity.
Since there are many ppl that spend more time with pvp than with pve, pvp is their main activity.
Therefore PvP can be considered a main activity in WoW.

[Obnoxious]

Its called side activity when u spend less time with it than with ur main activity.
Since there are many ppl that spend more time with pvp than with pve, pvp is their main activity.
Therefore PvP can be considered a main activity in WoW.

As the world doesn't revolves you, so doesn't the global point of view of what a side-activity is on World of Warcraft. It being your main activity just means your main activity is a WoW side-activity - or would twinking suddenly become a main activity to you if you were talking to a twink? Better yet, would twinking become a main activity for WoW if you were with a twink?

[DamnOriginal]

World of Warcraft is a PvE game with PvP content. The quests, the leveling, the gearing, the storytelling, the exploration, the getting to know the world of the game you're playing, it's all focused on PvE. PvP is a side-activity to the PvE game. This isn't a personal opinion, this is a simple fact anyone without the already mentioned blindness can see.

World of Warcraft can be both a PvE and a PvP game depending on how one chooses to invest their time no matter its focus. We know this because both playstyles are supported and both types of players are common. Repeating that your obvious personal opinion is fact over and over will get you nowhere.

Now, on the other hand, taking issue with having a personal favorite be called a side-activity is much more about ego/insecurity related personal issues. I assure you there's nothing wrong or shameful about preferring or even only liking a side-activity of a game focused on something else. Calling something a side-activity is stating a fact, not "talking you down."

My issue with your posts is that you're trying to state personal opinion as fact. It has nothing to do with the contents of your opinion as I couldn't possibly care less.

Better yet, would twinking become a main activity for WoW if you were with a twink?

This may blow your mind but twinking is part of PvP.

[Obnoxious]

World of Warcraft can be both a PvE and a PvP game depending on how one chooses to invest their time no matter its focus. We know this because both playstyles are supported and both types of players are common. Repeating that your obvious personal opinion is fact over and over will get you nowhere.

What you do in the game doesn't changes what the game offers. You choosing to only play PvP makes it your main activity, but it remains a side-activty for the whole of WoW content. You're trying to argue that your opinion and personal preference dictate the content the game offers, like if closing your eyes and yelling "THERE'S ONLY PVP THERE'S ONLY PVP" would make the massively larger portion of the game laid on PvE content go away.

My issue with your posts is that you're trying to state personal opinion as fact.

And yet again I say: if I could sell irony, I'd have hit another motherload.

[Jakkre]

As the world doesn't revolves you, so doesn't the global point of view of what a side-activity is on World of Warcraft. It being your main activity just means your main activity is a WoW side-activity - or would twinking suddenly become a main activity to you if you were talking to a twink? Better yet, would twinking become a main activity for WoW if you were with a twink?

If u would ask Blizzards they would most likely tell you that PvE and PvP are both main activitys while twinking is a side activity. The reason for that is that there is a large playerbase that does PvE and PvP while twinking has only a small playerbase.

If u consider PvP only a side activity then u don't represent the opinion of the majority and therefore ur opinion isn't the global point of view.

[Obnoxious]

If u would ask Blizzards they would most likely tell you that PvE and PvP are both main activitys while twinking is a side activity. The reason for that is that there is a large playerbase that does PvE and PvP while twinking has only a small playerbase.

If u consider PvP only a side activity then u don't represent the opinion of the majority and therefore ur opinion isn't the global point of view.

Blizzard wants to sell the game. As you exemplify, calling PvP by its proper nomenclature makes people throw fits, as if liking a side-activity was some personal insult to one's honor. It's just logical that they won't to avoid such reactions. And yet, as can be seen with the coming expansion, they are fully segregating PvP behind a veil now.

Also, I'm not giving a global point of view as in representing what people say. The global point of view comes from looking at the game for what it is, what it offers, how it's built to be played, even if people liking side-activities will avoid or ignore the main game content. What people say is irrelevant for what is.