False reporting needs to be bannable.

[Stepkid]

Most people with brain make a difference between caster and melee dps. Comparing feral rolling for boomkin to DK rolling on 2h, which is complete viable weapon for the spec, is just dumb.

Actually it's not dumb at all if you see a fury warrior or uh/blood dk in the same group wanting 2 handed weapon, but instead a frost dk decides to need roll on it instead of greed.

It's actually dumb if you think a frost dk can need roll on a 2 handed weapon because that frost dk got banned for it, so you actually get banned for being dumb.

[therealchao]

I agree.

I reported one healer in rdf for doing that, he rolled dps caster trinket and won. I didnt want to report him, but rogue was pissed off even if he doesnt need it.
Then I asked him maybe if he wants to sell it at least, he said "Thanks I will keep it, but I love you". Then I decided to report him cuz of that provocation. And yes he got 5d ban.

And I will do it every time when someone need items that is not for his role at all.

So this is something that I am concerned about. I do a lot of RDF on my prot paladin. There aren't many items I need for tanking, and after reading the moderator's clarification I'll just be reporting the next time tank items get needed by non-tanks or vise versa. I just instantly leave any dungeon that has loot I need if I get queued with other people who need the same loot. I'll take the 30m cooldown, go make something to eat or post some stuff on the AH, then come back and try again.

That's the cost of penalizing tanks or healers for wanting to roll for items of a different spec. The net result is a LOT of wasted time for everyone. My 30 minute cooldown is a price I'm willing to pay in order to get the loot I want (and I can reduce this further by queuing with dps that I know down need it). However when I leave because I want to roll on an item but don't want to be accused of ninjaing I am also inadvertently wasting everyone else in that group's time. Time waiting in a queue for a dungeon, then waiting for another tank, or disbanding and doing it all over again. I'm sure it can be very frustrating.

Sure, I could queue as a dps for that same dungeon, but if I have instant queue as tank it's simply much faster to do that and then just leave if there are other plate wearers. The cooldown is about the same as the queue wait as a dps so I don't have much to lose.

[coll159]

So this is something that I am concerned about......and after reading the moderator's clarification I'll just be reporting the next time tank items get needed by non-tanks or vise versa......

Please report back to this thread what is done to the players you report, I'd really like to know if I'm wrong in my thinking and interpretation of the written rules. She said that it's bannable. I've written the Head Gm for a clarification. So When/If i find out otherwise, I'll be sure to do the same.

[therealchao]

I feel like it's pretty safe to assume that what a moderator said is the way it works. I would be very surprised if they were contradicted by another staff member. I was just drawing attention to the negative consequences of such a policy. Also, in my personal opinion, I feel like anyone should be able to role on any item if it is an upgrade for them. The idea that in a PUG loot should be doled out based on what is BIS for who or class priority or whatever...that's how guilds should operate. That's a separate rant though and not really the point of this thread.

[coll159]

I can understand your confusion, and caution, however, I've been on this server for 8 years, and quite certain of what I've seen, and been told by other staff members, I feel she is mistaken in her well meaning response, So I reached out to the head GM, Hopefully I hear back soon, If she is wrong I would hate for myself or her, to be spreading misinformation.

[angrylol]

Arms warrior is very viable in pve. Sure its less dmg than fury but provides many usefull buffs that the raid may otherwise be missing and its dps can be just a bit less. Dont spout nonsense all the time as it seems you have no idea about arms pve nor frost with two hand.

I'd understand if you talk about exclusively dungeons, since Arms maaaaybe can burst enough on those short fights to be barely viable.
In raids? lmao
Combat rogue gives same 4% buff and does x2 damage compared to Arms
Fury warrior brings everything else and does x2 damage compared to Arms

I love these gymnastics to try to portray sub-par 2H Frost spec as something viable when you can just dual wield and do normal damage - everyone wins, most dps, warriors get their 2handers and no one gets banned.

You are spouting nonsense, I don't think you are malicious or stupid, I think you just lack experience and are repeating some "Trade chat meta".

[Mnggal]

Arms warrior is very viable in pve. Sure its less dmg than fury but provides many usefull buffs that the raid may otherwise be missing and its dps can be just a bit less. Dont spout nonsense all the time as it seems you have no idea about arms pve nor frost with two hand.

Right cause you are going to burst over 12k on DBS in 25 man as arms?
Dont pull crap out of your behind, arms warr is useless in pve and does not provide anything other then 24 other people having to carry you.
If you want to play a sub par spec just go play enh and be a liability.

[Obnoxious]

I feel like it's pretty safe to assume that what a moderator said is the way it works. I would be very surprised if they were contradicted by another staff member. I was just drawing attention to the negative consequences of such a policy. Also, in my personal opinion, I feel like anyone should be able to role on any item if it is an upgrade for them. The idea that in a PUG loot should be doled out based on what is BIS for who or class priority or whatever...that's how guilds should operate. That's a separate rant though and not really the point of this thread.

It isn't even a matter of being a Moderator or anything. All the people who have said the same are regulars in the Forums and, just as I, have seen the dozens upon dozens of threads of people coming complain along the lines of "I was running a dungeon, rolled Need for OS and got banned." This has been happening for a long time, it's nothing brand new from a week ago.

Regarding the "negative consequence," I'll go on a stretch here and say that the DDs would rather wait a little longer in queue, than get it faster just to see the loot they need - for the role they were actively playing - taken be someone else. This policy began because people just rolling Need on everything they could to resell or disenchant was rampant, and players wanted assistance with that.

[Notfair]

I'm laughing at the above posters crapping on arms warriors when they don't have a clue why you'd bring one in the first place. Likely the same people that go "DaE pR0t WaR iS tRaSh Th0" when they get messages from warrior tanks. Before I address the point of this whole thread, I'll go ahead and address them first:

Arms warrior is viable in PvE under some circumstances. I personally have brought an arms warrior to LoD when I've been without a feral druid and my melee group was stacked with rogues/warriors already (because the increased bleed dmg for all of them would outweigh the 1 arms warrior's gimped dps). That being said, it takes someone who knows what they're doing and has the right gear on Arms War in order to do more dmg than a Fury that just had a lobotomy.

It's been my understanding due to ban's I've personally seen doled out, conversations with GMs, and my own interpretation of the official Ninja policy posted on the forums, that it is not a ninja as long as a class can use that item for their current role/spec. A lot of the people here seem to be under the impression that warmane adheres to a strict BiS-priority looting policy, which cannot be further from the truth. I've seen bans handed out for withholding DBW from ret paladins and tiny abom trinket from warriors and death knights. Regardless of how bad an item is for a class/spec (ie: using 2h over 1h weps on a FDK), I have always seen warmane on the side of the person who won the roll, rather than what class it works best for. (I say this as a person with 2 prot paladins that respectively have HC Bloodvenom Blade and HC Havoc's Call)

You guys need to quit pretending like doing your RDF groups is tantamount to high-end raiding and realize you're still trying to get a spot on the JV squad for the special olympics.

[Notfair]

It isn't even a matter of being a Moderator or anything. All the people who have said the same are regulars in the Forums and, just as I, have seen the dozens upon dozens of threads of people coming complain along the lines of "I was running a dungeon, rolled Need for OS and got banned." This has been happening for a long time, it's nothing brand new from a week ago.

Regarding the "negative consequence," I'll go on a stretch here and say that the DDs would rather wait a little longer in queue, than get it faster just to see the loot they need - for the role they were actively playing - taken be someone else. This policy began because people just rolling Need on everything they could to resell or disenchant was rampant, and players wanted assistance with that.

Personally I see no issue with people being banned for rolling Need for OS without clearing that with the group first; I really hope we're all in agreement on that. Also the issue with people needing on everything (*cough* frozen orbs *cough*) is a huge issue that I still don't think has been resolved. Maybe an updated ninja policy (that includes dungeon ninja policy) could be made and posted to the front page so that everyone is clear on it. I personally believe doing server-wide announcements on the subject would help as well.

That being said, I think the issue at hand is about whether or not warmane will ban people for needing on items that are not optimal to their spec (FDK using a 2h). I think that is drawing a definitive line, and people could start making arguments about whether or not to ban paladins and shamans for needing on gear that has spirit.

[Obnoxious]

Personally I see no issue with people being banned for rolling Need for OS without clearing that with the group first; I really hope we're all in agreement on that. Also the issue with people needing on everything (*cough* frozen orbs *cough*) is a huge issue that I still don't think has been resolved. Maybe an updated ninja policy (that includes dungeon ninja policy) could be made and posted to the front page so that everyone is clear on it. I personally believe doing server-wide announcements on the subject would help as well.

Both of those things, along with updating the rules thread with more information, aren't things that are up to me or Moderators, though. Players are free to create a thread in the Suggestions section for that, on the other hand.

That being said, I think the issue at hand is about whether or not warmane will ban people for needing on items that are not optimal to their spec (FDK using a 2h). I think that is drawing a definitive line, and people could start making arguments about whether or not to ban paladins and shamans for needing on gear that has spirit.

I don't know specific details or guidelines they follow to make certain decisions, so I can't say much about that, but I think there have been ban threads from people arguing they went Need on an item that technically they could use for their role and specialization, but which nonetheless wasn't good for them.

[angrylol]

I'm laughing at the above posters crapping on arms warriors when they don't have a clue why you'd bring one in the first place.

And what do they bring? Nothing. Well I guess less DPS is something.

Arms warrior is viable in PvE under some circumstances. I personally have brought an arms warrior to LoD when I've been without a feral druid and my melee group was stacked with rogues/warriors already (because the increased bleed dmg for all of them would outweigh the 1 arms warrior's gimped dps). That being said, it takes someone who knows what they're doing and has the right gear on Arms War in order to do more dmg than a Fury that just had a lobotomy.

Are you saying that you just had a lobotomy done? Because all you had to do is go fury and your group would only benefit instead of carrying you, but if you can play Arms better than fury after lobotomy, it's allright as long as your raid puts up with it.

(I say this as a person with 2 prot paladins that respectively have HC Bloodvenom Blade and HC Havoc's Call)

Obviously you don't understand how prot paladin works. If no one needs those weapons - if inferior weapon makes you feel good it is all good, but if you got them over some rogue or fdk, shame on you.

You guys need to quit pretending like doing your RDF groups is tantamount to high-end raiding and realize you're still trying to get a spot on the JV squad for the special olympics.

Some concepts still apply. And Frost DK not getting 2hander is one of them.

[Greedman45]

I'd understand if you talk about exclusively dungeons, since Arms maaaaybe can burst enough on those short fights to be barely viable.
In raids? lmao
Combat rogue gives same 4% buff and does x2 damage compared to Arms
Fury warrior brings everything else and does x2 damage compared to Arms

I love these gymnastics to try to portray sub-par 2H Frost spec as something viable when you can just dual wield and do normal damage - everyone wins, most dps, warriors get their 2handers and no one gets banned.

You are spouting nonsense, I don't think you are malicious or stupid, I think you just lack experience and are repeating some "Trade chat meta".

First of all i have played all patches of this content and each raid tier. Arms warrior even does more dps if played correctly till 4.5k gs lol. If all you do is wait for your mortal strike ofc you wont do anything.

On 10 man you may not have everything, you may not have a feral for the increased bleeds, and no combat rogue for the increased dmg. Then why not bring an arms warrior?. I get it that you are just another overgeared fury on icecrown watching your cleaves on lk but seriously arms brings a lot to the table at many situations. L2p then talk plz and try to find a good warrior to see how it goes..

PS to FAY: Arms gives 30% extra bleed dmg and 4% extra physical dmg to all. If you dont have a combat rogue (which on frostmourne you actually shouldnt because it will deal 0 dps omg) and no feral druid, arms warrior is a very good addition to the group.
Also on frostmourne currently arms does the same or more dmg than fury. Learn what its all about dont just read something and repeat it like parrots.

[Notfair]

And what do they bring? Nothing. Well I guess less DPS is something.

They bring trauma, which increases bleed damage, which is only provided by Arms War, Feral Druid, and BM Hunter (lol)

Are you saying that you just had a lobotomy done? Because all you had to do is go fury and your group would only benefit instead of carrying you, but if you can play Arms better than fury after lobotomy, it's allright as long as your raid puts up with it.

Firstly, I don't play warrior, I brought an Arms warrior to my LoD raid, because I lead LoD raids. Second, I'll reiterate that I brought a warrior I knew to be good at arms to fill the gap for not having a feral druid, which (lastly) you seemed to have overlooked because you don't know class buffs for this 12 year old expansion (exemplified by you only comparing arms war to combat rogue).

Obviously you don't understand how prot paladin works. If no one needs those weapons - if inferior weapon makes you feel good it is all good, but if you got them over some rogue or fdk, shame on you.

Obviously I do understand how prot paladins work because I have 2 of them I've tanked LoD on. Those 2 weapons are the best weapons for threat generation on a prot paladin in the game. HC Mithrios (which I have) is obviously better for mitigation, but like most gear for tanking, weapons can be changed situationally.

[coll159]

Regarding the "negative consequence," I'll go on a stretch here and say that the DDs would rather wait a little longer in queue, than get it faster just to see the loot they need - for the role they were actively playing - taken be someone else. This policy began because people just rolling Need on everything they could to resell or disenchant was rampant, and players wanted assistance with that.

We seem to keep straying into "that is a real crappy thing to do, and if you do that stuff your're a bad person" territory, we're not talking about the morals of it, we can all agree that it's a crappy thing to do,

I feel what should be focused on , and what the original poster tried to get across, is what the rules say and mean. What you're saying isn't wrong, what needs clarification is.... what is the absolute meaning of ninja looting an item if there is a "character" use, that is n't blatant misuse, i.e. a melee rolling on a caster trinket.

I don't know specific details or guidelines they follow to make certain decisions, so I can't say much about that, but I think there have been ban threads from people arguing they went Need on an item that technically they could use for their role and specialization, but which nonetheless wasn't good for them.

This I think is the problem, because you cannot, like most of the player base agree on what is the clear rules, I see it as something else, and there should be absolute transparency here. Especially if you're just going to threatening me with spreading misinformation as you did, listen I get wanting to back up your fellow staff member, and I'd want to do the same, however I feel the rules state that the OP was in the right I think. This is a forums were we can discuss the ideas, and as long as the forum rules aren't being broken, which I wasn't. That kinda drastic ( some would say heavy handed, and draconian) action, shouldn't happen.

Thanks for saying this, I see this as you reinforcing my point from earlier.