Technical Concept of Ninja

[Verbalis]

Hi!

Consider this dungeon scenario:

I'm a Ret Paladin and I have ilvl 264 boots
Another player who is a Fury Warrior has ilvl 187 boots.
We kill a boss and it drops ilvl 232 boots for Plate DPS.

If I Need on those boots am I considered a ninja or not?
I don't mean to ask if I'm considered a ninja in that player's eyes. That I know, ofc I am.
I just wanna know if doing that is allowed by the rules or not.

Thanks in advance,
Verbalis

[Kovachut]

If your 264 ilvl boots are for tanking or for healing and you roll "need" on the dps boots, then you don't have to worry about anything. However, if you have already equipped a better item (in terms of stats) and you roll "need", I think it qualifies as ninja looting, because you don't really benefit from it. The point of rolling NEED is to have an upgrade for your MS. If you roll "need" on an item and you already have a better one equipped, what would you do with the said item? Sell it? Disenchant it? Use it for transmog? In all of those cases GREED is the only allowed roll option.

[Edit] I have the feeling, that you aren't asking a general question, but more like describing a past event. If this is the case, could you please give more info about the two items? There MIGHT be a chance, that this information could change things. For example, I personally consider https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=47581 to be inferior to https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=50264, because hit rating is more important than haste for gearing leather-wearing dps and the gem slot might not be enough to satisfy the need for hit rating (if the player's gear doesn't provide enough of it).

[Verbalis]

If your 264 ilvl boots are for tanking or for healing and you roll "need" on the dps boots, then you don't have to worry about anything. However, if you have already equipped a better item (in terms of stats) and you roll "need", I think it qualifies as ninja looting, because you don't really benefit from it. The point of rolling NEED is to have an upgrade for your MS. If you roll "need" on an item and you already have a better one equipped, what would you do with the said item? Sell it? Disenchant it? Use it for transmog? In all of those cases GREED is the only allowed roll option.

[Edit] I have the feeling, that you aren't asking a general question, but more like describing a past event. If this is the case, could you please give more info about the two items? There MIGHT be a chance, that this information could change things. For example, I personally consider https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=47581 to be inferior to https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=50264, because hit rating is more important than haste for gearing leather-wearing dps and the gem slot might not be enough to satisfy the need for hit rating (if the player's gear doesn't provide enough of it).

I am just asking because I see people needing on items that are for their spec instead of disenchant rolling just to disenchant them right after in front of all other players
I am talking people that are doing dungeons for frosts, that are close to BiS and don't actually need a single item.
However, I don't know if I can report someone for that.

[Kovachut]

I am just asking because I see people needing on items that are for their spec instead of disenchant rolling just to disenchant them right after in front of all other players
I am talking people that are doing dungeons for frosts, that are close to BiS and don't actually need a single item.
However, I don't know if I can report someone for that.

I see what you mean. Well, if you feel like someone has selected "need" falsely and they shouldn't get the item, you could always talk to them and ask them to give you the gear piece. This would save the GM's precious time and it would resolve your issue quicker. If that person refuses to cooperate, then you could open a ticket and report them there. It's up to the GM to decide whether that player actually needs the item and whether they should be punished for rolling it.

I'm going to repeat myself - the higher ilvl of an item may not always mean an upgrade. See the example I gave above. I can mention another one - a player, who has https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=50343 and either https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=50362 or https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=54590, rolls NEED on https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=47214. Even in that case, the player has the right to do so, because in terms of end-game stats BoV is superior to WFS. So it really depends on the situation. If you clearly see, that the higher ilvl item offers an upgrade over the weaker one and that the "BiS" player doesn't actually need it, then the ban would be justified. HOWEVER, in order to successfully report that player, you need to /inspect them and take a screenshot of the already equipped superior item. If you don't do that, i.e. if you just link the player's armory instead, the GM might dismiss your ticket with the response, that the evidence isn't clear enough. And they would be right to claim that, because during the time between the report being created and reviewed the said player could participate in raids or get in touch with a blacksmith and acquire a better gear piece. So you need to show, that the player had equipped the better item during the rolling phase.

[Verbalis]

I see what you mean. Well, if you feel like someone has selected "need" falsely and they shouldn't get the item, you could always talk to them and ask them to give you the gear piece. This would save the GM's precious time and it would resolve your issue quicker. If that person refuses to cooperate, then you could open a ticket and report them there. It's up to the GM to decide whether that player actually needs the item and whether they should be punished for rolling it.

I'm going to repeat myself - the higher ilvl of an item may not always mean an upgrade. See the example I gave above. I can mention another one - a player, who has https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=50343 and either https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=50362 or https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=54590, rolls NEED on https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=47214. Even in that case, the player has the right to do so, because in terms of end-game stats BoV is superior to WFS. So it really depends on the situation. If you clearly see, that the higher ilvl item offers an upgrade over the weaker one and that the "BiS" player doesn't actually need it, then the ban would be justified. HOWEVER, in order to successfully report that player, you need to /inspect them and take a screenshot of the already equipped superior item. If you don't do that, i.e. if you just link the player's armory instead, the GM might dismiss your ticket with the response, that the evidence isn't clear enough. And they would be right to claim that, because during the time between the report being created and reviewed the said player could participate in raids or get in touch with a blacksmith and acquire a better gear piece. So you need to show, that the player had equipped the better item during the rolling phase.

I have confirmation from a GM. It is considered to be ninja.

[Kovachut]

I have confirmation from a GM. It is considered to be ninja.

Uhm, this is regarding your general question or the example I gave above? Sorry for this dumb question.

[Verbalis]

Uhm, this is regarding your general question or the example I gave above? Sorry for this dumb question.

The example you gave is completely fine.
Trinkets are the exception to the rule as they give unique bonuses and an higher ilvl trinket might not give as good of a bonus as another trinket.

However, if you have let's say ilvl 264 boots with haste and you need on ilvl 200 boots with crit, even if the ilvl 200 boots give crit, a stat that you prefer over haste, the ilvl difference makes it so that the sheer stat difference is gonna heavily outweight the crit gain you get from those ilvl 200 boots.
So, in that case, needing on those boots is considered ninja.

For one you might be taking loot from someone who actually needs it as an upgrade or you can also be needing on it to bypass the greed/disenchant rolls so you can disenchant the item manually right after winning it and that way you get the mats 100% of the time.

Anyways this isn't a blind rule. Common sense still applies. You were able to justify why needing on a ilvl 200 trinket might be a good choice in some cases even if you have better ilvl ones. GMs can also sense if someone actually needed the item or if they just needed on it to bypass greed/disenchant so they could get the benefit of it by default.