Forum Ban for ninja looting

[Experinka]

I play as a level 39 mage and am just learning the basics of this game. Thanks everyone.

[Obnoxious]

Those were the cases I had in mind, when I wrote that post. If those still break your rules, then idunno. I agree, that if a person has no usage of an item and they roll NEED for it just to give it to someone else, it doesn't matter if they explained their reason in chat or were silent about it. Those cases should be punished.

In a case where it's between only two players, both who are legitimately eligible to roll Need (right specialization, role, etc.), sure, that should be straight enough to probably not run any risks. Not sure how many scenarios that would fit, though. If it's either the Tank or the Healer, of which there's only one, that's already out, as it would undeniably fall under "rolling Need to give to someone else." Two DDs of the same kind, when the third is a different one, would be the only case I can think of from the top of my head.

Your second example would be something similar. If something better dropped, you were a DD and only one other DD was eligible to roll Need in the first place, sure, you should be able to hand it over to them fine. If you were a DD and the other two were eligible, it should probably go for whoever had the second highest Need roll (or both roll again in case people are unsure who that was). If you were either the Tank or Healer, all interested should roll as if they were Greed'g on it.

Unanimous arrangements in the party still can take precedence over all that, as usual. Just make sure everyone actually agrees. Someone not saying anything should be interpreted as a no, not as an yes.

Not knowing this rule

You are assumed to have read, understood and agreed to all server rules before you begin playing (and they include the details on this now). Players don't do that at their own risk, since ignorance of the rules (or language barriers, we have subsections in other languages where you can ask other players if you are in doubt) isn't an excuse.

[Disktrasa]

The administration has chosen too strict rules regarding this aspect of the gameplay. Because of which, unknowingly, they can new players will suffer, the flow of which on their servers has clearly increased.

The rules are strict because warmane wanted to change a ninja trend that was growing rapidly, It's a private sever and no one gave a ****, people needed anything just to sell it to a NPC, because **** that other guy who needs for uppgrade, I need this 20 gold for my cold weather fly, screw everyone else.

The rules actually only make ninjas suffer, not new players in general, if you need on all just to give it to someone else yourself well, that just sounds really ****ed up, specially if you don't actually need the item, the option to need is there yes, there's also the option to alt f4, I just don't se that excuse reasonable.

About ninja rules in general though, If a person makes a report and you can se on chatt that he didnt even try to talk to the winner about it, just went straight to printscreen and report, that ticket should be ignored imo.

[Whitelich]

so basically, an enchanter who wants to get something out of it, is not different than a guy who wants to vendor it?
in my situation, no1 needed the item (shield), our warrior was using heirlooms, and the other 4 where cloth wearers, now i see 2 option, greed/disenchant
i know that disenchant has a higher priority, but everyone -even people without enchanting- can press the disench bottom, (if i'm wrong here than just reply here,, correct me on this) and what is exactly the difference between an enchanter and someone who would vendor an epic item in this system?
i'm now banned, even though i asked the guy who could use the item first, by another enchanter who pressed greed instead.
now i'm banned for a long time,, because he won't get 2 strange dusts probably..
i think the report/ ban system should be reconstructed,, however if only enchanters can press the disenchant bottom, than it was all my fault,, even in that case i do not deserve this ban, as u said, i cannot play for at least a week.. should i not be warned first? should i not be banned from dungeons and other pve or maybe pve+pvp features?? now i absolutely can not do anything with my client..
I'm not good with english, sorry about all my mistakes above..
best regards

[Whitelich]

The rules are strict because warmane wanted to change a ninja trend that was growing rapidly, It's a private sever and no one gave a ****, people needed anything just to sell it to a NPC, because **** that other guy who needs for uppgrade, I need this 20 gold for my cold weather fly, screw everyone else.

The rules actually only make ninjas suffer, not new players in general, if you need on all just to give it to someone else yourself well, that just sounds really ****ed up, specially if you don't actually need the item, the option to need is there yes, there's also the option to alt f4, I just don't se that excuse reasonable.

About ninja rules in general though, If a person makes a report and you can se on chatt that he didnt even try to talk to the winner about it, just went straight to printscreen and report, that ticket should be ignored imo.

ahh hello? new player here, suffering from this.. only wanted to disenchant it so pressed need, after asking our plate armor guy ofc, but i got reported and flamed by another enchanter who pressed greed..
so is enchanting as important as vendoring? i think after the item users (people who need it for their current spec gear), it should be enchanters, than the os guys, and after them, finally those who just wish to destroy the item for some gold..

[Mitzen]

ahh hello? new player here, suffering from this.. only wanted to disenchant it so pressed need, after asking our plate armor guy ofc, but i got reported and flamed by another enchanter who pressed greed..

This is also why the ninja rules were implemented on Warmane. There are respectful enchanters who use disenchant rolls and are fine with it, and then there's you, who wants to need the materials to get it for yourself.. and other people like you, who try to reason why their own belly is more important than anybody else's.

You NEED items to improve your MS. Everything else is GREED, or DISENCHANT.

Why are greed and disenchant equal? The rolling system in WotLK is NEED > GREED/DISENCHANT. It can't be changed. Let's use our imagination for a bit. Let's say there's a roll system that's NEED > OS > DISENCHANT > GREED. Would this solve anything? No. Here's why: Why would anybody roll DE/GREED when OS has higher priority. You could roll for OS and DE, you could roll OS and vendor. Let's not ever forget that enchanting materials are used by other players as well, in order to get their gear enchanted, or use the materials for other professions. And I'm willing to bet, you don't enchant for free, now do you? So DE is equal with GREED for this purpose.

[Whitelich]

i kinda agree with u about how this is the best possible loot system,
but items from dungeons are the major farming zone for enchanters..
u cant farm epics and rares from normal mobs.so you have to farm them in a dungeon, or give up the profession. and any other profession has its own materials.. i actually do not enchant for money,, as i said. i am level 15 right now, i only disenchant to upgrade the enchanting skill rn. yes i know im not more important than other people, .. but let me give u an exmaple:
we have a cake, if any1 is hungry, he can roll to eat the cake, if nobody is hungry, but there is some1 who is still not full*, he may take the cake instead, if every1 is full, than there is a guy who can sell it for a really good price(like enchant) so he should get it,and if no1 cant sell it for a good price,, people may roll a dice, and sell it on a really low price..
all of these 4 people are doing something to gain a profit out of the cake, but logic says, the guy gets it that can benefit the most from it..
so i think if an enchanter can produce a large amount of money from an item, and no1 else needs the item to increase his gs than, he should at least have priority to others who would just vendor it,, i give up my opinion on OS guys,, ur right about them,, and even if you're right.. im new in this server and i did not know 1 dude can rage and ban my acc for an entire week from all sorts of activity,, is that really fair? as i said,, couldn't the server just warn me first instead of putting a heavy ban on some lvl15??.. my excuse for not knowing is because of my old server which there was no ninja looting term in there and i had a great enchanting there without any problems or false accusations, also u did not clarify me if all players can roll for disenchant or is it just enchanters
and do not mistaken me with some greedy mother($(*#.. if i loot an item and somebody in team needs* it to wear* it .. i always give back the item, but that doesn't mean i give a shield to another mage because he threatens to report me as ninja looter.. and i dont think any1 should, but that same dude made me stay out of the game for 1 week, that is why i feel unjust right now, i got the item, he cries, i get a ban? should i just give items to others who don't need them
either because of the threat that lurks in the server? ( i mean there are other threads for this matter aswell i assume.. ),, this reminds me of how people accuse others for rape and ruin their lives, and get away with it after they prove it was a flase accuse..

[Crystalleia]

all of these 4 people are doing something to gain a profit out of the cake, but logic says, the guy gets it that can benefit the most from it..

You can still do that, provided *everyone else* has agreed to that arrangement. Otherwise, other people have as much right to the item as you do by default, since both Greed as well as Disenchanting are ultimately meant to gain a financial advantage (either by selling for Gold or saving Gold, as in your case).

Plus, the existence of Disenchant rolls means that anyone who wins it gets essentially an equal amount of gold as if the Enchanter had been the one to win the roll, so that argument regarding 'who gets the most' is actually moot from the very start.

I don't blame you for defaulting to that thought - most people do at first - but the more you think about it, you'll find that the rule is as fair as it can be considering the Greed=DE roll is part of the game's mechanics.

My primary issue with the whole Ninja-loot rule is not so much in how the ruling logic works, but the fact that it's somewhat inaccessible, being contained within a forum for a game that's basically its own application - which is why we're having quite a lot of leveling players who got punished for it.

Yes, technically speaking you are expected to read the rules before playing, but human behavior unfortunately does not work that way. Which does not mean that they should let people go for committing these mistakes, but rather that additional effort could perhaps be put into making the rules more visible, particularly in regards newer players. As it is, you probably won't know that rule threads even exist until you go into the forums, and nothing in the main Warmane page/Account page (as far as I know) points to or hints at the importance of the forums.

[Whitelich]

you are not wrong, but you left 2 things unsettled:
1: so you state that everyone is equal, agreed. but how is an enchanter equal to an alchemist.. who has easier time farming. as i said, i used to be an enchanter in my other acc aswell,and if i stay in server, soon il have pretty much all the proffs thru my chars,, but i do not thing enchanting would be a viable option if you can not need an item, even when no1 else needs it, there must be a difference,, i don't understand why you disagree on this.. if you make enchanting a harder spec.. the enchant scrolls rise in price, if that doesn't happen, people will stop playing as enchanter.. as other proffs would simply make double the money with less trouble..
and 2: so every1 can* roll disenchant for items? regardless of their profession..?
so some as$hol# could just roll disenchanting,, and than sell those mats to me for gold? and i have absolutely no difference to that guy (in term of needing) ? equal does not mean getting the same thing. it means getting the same oppurtun, u could've also became an enchanter and need that item.. but u chose freely not to, u chose to be an alch instead and sell flasks for a high price in AH, but by selecting the disenchant and denying the "need option" from me you are taking my chance of making money with my profession.. so everyone is equal, but enchanters are less* equal and other professions are more equal?
and btw that is not really the big problem, the big problem is that the server restricts bans on people, only because of reports,, without any investigation.. i agree if 3 out of 5 ppl rep some dude, hes got a problem..
but 1 guy? this is not some stupid +3 game.. so you could just complain about rng and mechanics .. and this by far is the first server ive seen who simply just Fu&* your game for a not sufficient reason.. i don't want them to be irresponsible,, but at least a bloody mail first?
and this not close to fine at all.. im concerned,, as i am pretty sure that no admin checked and investigated my case,, than this is deeply wrong.. like this could just happen again while im not even guilty again. like if i need an item that i really need for my gear, and 3 ppl who are friends in real life just rep me,
what than?
if 1 dude can execute bans.. 3 sure can too.. u will be out of game for a week. and after that u just go back and they will never pay for what they did.
that is why reporting someone should be a hard thing to do.. as someppl (not just my case) may use this to hurt others..

[angrylol]

So you want those 4 people in your group to be like your slaves, farming shards for you, they said "screw you we want our fair chance to roll". I'd understand if you talk with them and for every dream shard you get you give 20% of its value in gold to every party member. These "but I'm only enchanter in the world, muh shards"... good riddance, I hope you learn something from this.

I skilled up my Enchanting, didnt ninja anything and got it up to max, bought every recipe for dream shards. Must be some kind of miracle in your eyes, right?

And you think reporting works in some dumb sheep way, report only works WITH EVIDENCE, you can get reported 9999 times, if there is no evidence you wont get banned. And if by some mistake you get banned, make a ban appeal.

TL;DR
We know exactly what you mean, stop being greedy brat and play fair.

[Mitzen]

all of these 4 people are doing something to gain a profit out of the cake, but logic says, the guy gets it that can benefit the most from it..
so i think if an enchanter can produce a large amount of money from an item, and no1 else needs the item to increase his gs than, he should at least have priority to others who would just vendor it

So your profit > others' profit?

[Whitelich]

So your profit > others' profit?

isn't disenchanting> vendoring?

[Whitelich]

So you want those 4 people in your group to be like your slaves, farming shards for you, they said "screw you we want our fair chance to roll". I'd understand if you talk with them and for every dream shard you get you give 20% of its value in gold to every party member. These "but I'm only enchanter in the world, muh shards"... good riddance, I hope you learn something from this.

I skilled up my Enchanting, didnt ninja anything and got it up to max, bought every recipe for dream shards. Must be some kind of miracle in your eyes, right?

And you think reporting works in some dumb sheep way, report only works WITH EVIDENCE, you can get reported 9999 times, if there is no evidence you wont get banned. And if by some mistake you get banned, make a ban appeal.

TL;DR
We know exactly what you mean, stop being greedy brat and play fair.

i am not greedy,, OMFG.. i litterally said i asked the bloody due with shield before needing.. how can everyone if forum just be so aggresive towards this.. your reply unfortunately did not help me with any of the questions. but i do not think thats why you botherd writing this script of hatred here..
how is it not in a sheep way??
i ask the warrior: sir do you Fucin want the shiled?
he says no,
i look at others, no plate dude around, no shaman around,..
so i press need
immediately i see this: reported for ninja looting u fucin ashole
next day i cant login??
how is this not ship? the first rep, on my first character, thrown by some dude who don't need a shield either.
yes, im learning a lot right now.. about how much of a painful time im gonna have trying to level the bloody thing up..
so this is your idea: we all have equal chance on the item.. screw your profession, screw your game, i want to destroy it instead, if u try to stop me il rep u ..
the other 4 ppl are not my slaves because they did not start a q up dungeon to loot items they would not need, they either wanted the fos or the bag in early dungeons+ exp
btw i dunno why im trying to explain u as if you would ever consider yourself to be wrong..

[angrylol]

You don't need to explain anything. Everyone understands. It is you who doesn't understand.
You ninja item, screw other people because your crap is "more important", got punished and now you venting.

I'm wandering what in your world happens if it turns out that those other people were Enchanters too? How do you come out of that?

[Mitzen]

I'm wandering what in your world happens if it turns out that those other people were Enchanters too? How do you come out of that?

Well obviously he is going to need on the item, while other respectful players are happy to click disenchant.