So you're saying you've seen situations where a Tank with 61,000HP died, but would have survived and saved a complete wipe if they had 62,000 instead?
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Member
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Member
I doubt agility gives any haste, but armor and dodge. Well Idk if the blood draining is the best enchant, it surely works good at pvp but tankwise I dont see it that effective. I think it barely would matter in the end against raid bosses with that small healing though combined with the other sources (instant small heals, seal of light etc.) it may save you one time or two.
@Loadsamoney
Yep, I lived that myself back on molten lordaeron which made me regem since it was luck that saved me that time. I was near 60k hp 59xxx (with cs buff 59.8khp, I saw that I was sitting at 57.5k hp from a video that I recorded at 2014) with mixed gems.Edited: March 5, 2021
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Member
The way I see it, that 2k heal from Blood Draining buys you 1 or 2 more seconds of life, enough time for a healer to get another heal on you and get you back into the fight. And technically with the damage reduction of Ardent Defender, it's more than 2k EHP, closer to 3k I believe.
I guess the 240 armor from Mongoose is always active, but still, how much EHP does that amount to when you already have 30k armor or more? And I don't think Mongoose helps against spell damage, while Blood Draining is indiscriminate of what brings you low enough to trigger it.
Anyway, I'll keep the gem mismatching thing in mind. If I eventually reach the point where gemming for more Stamina will guarantee that I survive a specific attack that I'm unable to 100% tank with my present setup, I'll regem for pure Stamina at that point.Edited: March 5, 2021
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Member
lol what are you saying, the difference between 2p bis and 4p bis is literally barely 650 armor and un-noticeable defensives stats, go look them up again, i have both builds and i use 4p, every prot pal in top end guilds uses 4p, especially on 0 buff content, you will love that small defensive cd, that cd is almost free and no one should ever even consider skipping it, also bladeward is ****ing trash, no one ****ing uses this ****, and no its not about being ''reliable'' its about possibly making a strike that would kill you and end up wiping the raid, giving extra chances to dodge it, there is alot of times where ONLY a dodge will save you from a wipe, please dont spew random ****, thanks.
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Member
If your raid is ever in a situation where only an RNG-based evasion (a Dodge, a Block, or a Parry) will save them from a total wipe, you guys are doing something wrong to begin with.
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Member
With best in slot EHP gear under the effects of 4pT10 you almost completely remove regular hits from the boss' attack table. With ~2.5k block value if we take some arbitrary high damaging hit like say a 40k swing,
(2500/40000) * 100 = 6.25.
That's the damage reduction(%) assuming worst case scenario where you block. If it were a smaller hit the damage reduction of 4pT10 is even higher on average, for example,
(2500/30000) * 100 = 8.33.
Of course this only concerns physical damage, but even so there are plenty of situations where this would come quite handy the most notable of which is LK soul reaper. I would say that being able to take less damage for the situations where you're actually at risk is very worthwhile considering that the downgrade in EHP quantitiy and quality isn't big.
With all that I really don't get where this apathy towards 4pT10 comes from. It's obviously not as strong as dk/druid one but it's still something you should take.
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Wind of Northrend
Since paladins have Ardent Defender, I like to use 4pT10 in combination with PTS proc, to increase Dodge chance to a good number I can feel that can save me in situations like Soul Reaper or huge Corporeality for example (once every other def CD is used, or I have couple of minor ones).
You don't get anything special from 2pT10 anyway, so why not?
In the WORSE case scenario, which one has a higher chance to save you, 12% extra dodge or some minor EHP increase?
When it comes to gems, and matching bonuses, I prefer to match them with 10hit15stamina and/or 10exp15stamina gems so I can get another "extra armor" item in the build with still good amount of Hit and Expertise for TPS increase (since I don't trust those MDs and TOTs).
I personally feel like that extra EHP from couple of gems wont save me, in 99% of the times I die, so I decide to go for more stats overall and higher item level builds which will end up giving me a bit less EHP but a bit more avoidance on top of TPS.
Also, if you want to have a 56 Expertise build for Halion, and you don't have a lot of "double" items for different gems, couple of extra 10exp15stamina gems are a must in your regular build regardless.
At "BIS" gear, it is a matter of personal preference to be honest, at least from my point of view.
If you make a tank build, and you kill every boss in the raid with your guild every week without any issues, and without having a feeling like you are getting carried, or other people complaining about your performance, you are good.
People on Frostmourne killed Lich King 25m HC without BIS tanks and healers so yea, just play w/e you want just as long as it doesn't cripple your raid and stop beating a dead horse. xD
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Member
I dunno, 20% more damage for one of your primary rotation skills is pretty damn good, especially since it can hit up to three enemies (four when glyphed).
I believe ICC25 has been completed with nothing but Shamans before. a 25 Shaman team took down all bosses in ICC25. So yeah, I don't see the need to be THAT tryhard in terms of maximizing every last bit of EHP by scientifically calculating what piece of gear and what gem is best for every socket. If it gets the job done and the raid doesn't have problems because of it, nobody should complain.
I generally go for 4pT10 until I'm able to replace the shoulders/helmet with something better from ICC, then I drop down to 2p. If I happen to find something before that, frosties saved.
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Member
Man sorry but with that thinking, you can bring agility gemmed warriors, str gemmed hunters to raid and can still kill the lk on normal mode without anyone complaining though it wouldnt be efficent at all. And I doubt its that trying hard with maximizing ehp.
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Member
I'm not saying go out of your way to deliberately gem, enchant, or gear yourself poorly, I'm just saying you don't "have" to go out of your way and run mathematical equations to figure out which configuration of equipment will give you 300 more EHP for a specific fight and have to give yourself a headache over it. I've always been competitive when it comes to raiding, but I never felt the need to micro-tweak my gear, gems and enchants just to squeeze out a tiny bit more optimization out of it.
Understanding raid mechanics and knowing how to communicate, coordinate, and execute tactics with your team will always be far, far more important than tweaking an already good gear setup just a tiny bit more for absolute maximum performance.Edited: March 5, 2021
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no but there is stiatuations where you would get hit and die, where as that extra dodge couldve made you live, especially in lod/rs25hc and 0 buff content. clearly you dont seem to do any of those
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Member
bruh by the time you do lady heroic, youll have gained way over enough eof's for full set.
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Forum Veteran
"it's not a phase, mom"
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Member
"I'm not wasting my life on videogames, Mom! This is very important! How will I ever get a job if I can't beat Saurfang?"
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Forum Veteran
I mean, you are obviously relatively new to this. People who have done reading, theorycrafting, sims, hundreds, even thousands LOD's and halions, cleared everything with every role and geared dozens of chars - are giving you advice, with reasoning and explanations. You go: sovereign gems go to sacred shield or whatever. Yeah, we know. Have fun, try builds, it's pretty fun, but what are you trying to do here in this topic, what is your message?
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