That's no solution, that's, again, saying "it's your fault for using this feature."
A random feature.
That you have no control who you will get partied with.
All for the sake of a fringe case that could be dealt with using a premade group, like angrylol said many posts ago.
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Moderator
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Member
Isn't that already the nature of LFG? I'm having a hard time understanding your point.
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Moderator
No, RDF has a balanced composition of roles. You might find a bad player, but that can be compensated by the rest of the group.
There won't be compensating if four DDs get grouped with a Healer hero who shouldn't be there.
Plus, obviously, RDF requires no custom UI, coding and teaching players how to use it.
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Member
The proposal for the optional checkboxes is intended to give players more choice, flexibility in forming premade groups, and quicker queue times, while still taking advantage of Dungeon Finder's convenience and RDF's rewards. There are players, like myself, who are confident in handling unconventional group setups and are willing to take on the risks and challenges that come with them.The mention of people complaining about wasted time confuses me. I've previously mentioned that if the party deems a player unfit for the composition, they can initiate a vote to kick, as usual in any Dungeon Finder setting.I believe there is a level of accountability for those who opt into these compositions. It's not about blaming players if the dungeon ends in failure; rather, players should understand the risks after reading the checkbox warning.Again, it's a relatively small and simple change to the UI that shouldn't be difficult to understand. I'm not going to comment on the coding aspect of this, as I have no experience in that area, and I understand if this is something the team simply can't implement.
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Forum Veteran
I'm sure you can find a group where players can tick Tank/healer role while being actual damage role. Que and play.
No one can understand what is your point here, you can go in game right now and do what you propose in this topic.
???
What you want is there already.
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Forum Veteran
Pretty sure this feature is already implemented considering the last five rdf I played had a dps queue as tank.
There's like zero point in doing this unless it's "for the memes" with your friends. I'd rather have five minutes of queuetime vs 20 minutes of wasted time due to having a group which is unable to clear the dungeon right from the get go.
Especially when you offer it as a feature it should work in the general sense. There's a negative amount of demand for dysfunctional features. All you'd do is create more tickets for GMs.
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Member
The checkboxes would ensure that everyone knows they're entering a group without a specific role, setting appropriate expectations and providing a more transparent and legitimate way to form these unconventional groups.
Many classes cannot select healer or tank roles to fill in those requirements, limiting their ability to queue for dungeons when tanks and healers are in short supply.
This isn't about bypassing the system; it's about creating a clear and supported option for those who want to try different group compositions.
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Member
My experience, as well as the experience of many others, has been queue times of 20 minutes or more, even for healer. The optional checkboxes I'm proposing are designed to give players more choice and flexibility.
If you feel that you or your group might be unable to complete a dungeon with an unconventional composition, you can simply leave the tank/healer checkboxes unchecked. This way, you can still queue for a more traditional group setup.
The idea isn't to force anyone into these groups but to provide an option for those who are willing to try different compositions, making que times shorter.
If anything, this should solve the issue of seeing fewer DPS players queuing as tanks when you're expecting a legitimate tank in your dungeon. This way, those players are also matched with others who agree to take on a dungeon without a specific role, ensuring clearer expectations and a more suitable group composition for everyone involved.
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Forum Veteran
How would group of 4 DPS and 1 healer clear HoL (or pick any dungeon tbh), if they have no plate/melee to "take the aggro" aka tank. Who gets the blame? Healer. Who gets the kick? Healer. Who thinks they are the main characters, and everybody should accommodate them? DPS's.
No, there are way too many random factors that makes the 4 DPS 1 Healer RDF's too random to have RDF's completed reliably.
- Gear (RDF has min. ilvl, but it doesn't take a 2.8k healer having to heal 2.9k Mages who have the aggro on 5 mobs at a time into consideration)
- Skill (DPS&Healer, and ability to talk and coordinate)
- Group composition
This suggestion only works when:
- Premade
- Leveling (probably 15-60, on average)
Did you stop to thing about all the underachievers that would ignore all the "players should understand that queuing into a group with 4 DPS requires a knowledgeable and experienced healer to fill that role"? Btw, it also requires brained DPS (challenge impossible), so let's not put all the stress on the healers?
There's no room for player choice if it's random.
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Member
To answer your first question, if a group of 4 DPS and 1 healer cannot clear a dungeon like HoL, the party can use the standard vote to kick feature to replace the member they deem most unfit for the challenge. This accountability mechanism exists in the current RDF system and would still apply with the proposed changes.
The key point of this feature is that it's not designed for reliability but rather for those who are up for the challenge. It's an optional feature, not forced on anyone. Only players who opt in and are confident in their abilities would use it. This isn't about making the entire game harder for everyone; it's about providing an option for those who want to take on that challenge.
If players feel uncomfortable with an unconventional composition or if it doesn't work for them, they can still queue in the traditional 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 DPS setup. This feature doesn't replace the standard system; it supplements it by offering an alternative for those willing to try something different.
Regarding the aim for easier premades and leveling, this suggestion provides more flexibility, especially in cases where tanks are in short supply. Heroic dungeons and below can often be completed without a tank, depending on the skill and coordination of the group. Currently, DPS players who queue as tanks without being adequately prepared can lead to frustrating experiences for the group. The proposed system would provide a way for these players to queue with others who are also okay with the 4 DPS and 1 healer composition, setting the right expectations upfront.
As for concerns about gear, skill, and group composition, these factors are always present in any RDF setting. The checkboxes simply offer an additional layer of choice, allowing players to opt into a known challenge. This feature isn't about creating "dysfunctional" groups but about providing options for players who want to create different compositions and/or reduce their queue times.
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Forum Veteran
This would split the players into 2 ques, because you can't put everyone into this "specific que", players would have to specifically go for it. So what amount of players would want this high risk of it being a huge waste of time? 1%? 5%? Whatever the number is, que time will be 3hrs with that bonus of "faster que" present.
It will never happen, because it's a bad idea. RDF must be "foolproof". And it is already in the game, it will be faster to do it manually, with lower risk of failures because it would sift out players who have no idea wtf they want or are up to - clicking on everything, just wandering around and enjoying the game(probably half present online players).
If you want something different, you can freely use existing mechanisms that were specifically made to accommodate you. And even if you want to do it as 5 clothers, you can simply walk to dungeon on do it until you vomit.
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Member
It's already possible that plate DPS queue as Tank and that DPS which are able to cast heals queue as Healer.
Making the queue system even less restricted than that would lead to absurd group compositions.
Imagine you would end up in a party with 5 DPS. For expl, 2 hunter, 1 lock, 1 rog and 1 mage.
Nobody is able to tank, not even off tank and nobody is able to cast healing spells, not even off heals. On top of that they are all randoms who don't know each other.
This can only end up in a **** show.
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Forum Veteran
So my choice is wait longer or have an instant dungeonqueue at a massive cost of quality in playability.
Many players among many games with random matchmaking e.g. League of Legends, Dota or even counterstrike prefer having a bit longer queuetime to be able of having "proper" gameplay.
Instant queue is useless when you don't enjoy the result.
You'd know this could be explained with a massive neon sign across your screen flashing at 30hz for a full minute and people would miss the message.
All you'd achieve is create another bottleneck by taking healers from regular rdf while not adressing the already present lack of tanks. Queue times would only end up reduced if you use the optional stuff you propose.
It wouldn't really solve anything. A player queueing for tank as a dps is fully aware what he's doing and willing to throw the rest of his party under the bus for faster queuetime. He just hopes his group is able to carry him.
Do you really think having a mode with at least four players like that is gonna be fun for anyone involved? Having a group of a single ego dps is annoying already. Imagine four of them placed together.
Also you'd basically force cloth/leather/mail dps into regular rdf anyway because they're unable to tank. So the "challenge mode" is just suiteable for healers + well geared plate dps.
