This server will become P2W ?

[lenthas]

I am kinda confused what the Warmane staff expected? You planned on putting all of your energy and resources into a server with the mindset that there should not be donations or a P2W mindset, and now months after launch are concerned about incoming donations.

Its pretty clear the majority of your donations come from your other servers, and leaving those alone with no updates leaves me to wonder just what was your mindset?

People make micro-transactions all the time, but throwing out $100 for a mount imo is quite ludicrous. I am just not sure what you expected prior to releasing a server of this kind.

They wanted an "as close to perfect" wotlk server, which they will then "copy paste" over to the other wotlk realms. So focusing all this time and energy on this means they can release an amazing 1x server, fix it, then just copy everything else on the rest of the wotlk servers. Once that is done im sure they'll split their focus on the 2 expansions. Well I hope thats their plan.

[Mercy]

They wanted an "as close to perfect" wotlk server, which they will then "copy paste" over to the other wotlk realms. So focusing all this time and energy on this means they can release an amazing 1x server, fix it, then just copy everything else on the rest of the wotlk servers. Once that is done im sure they'll split their focus on the 2 expansions. Well I hope thats their plan.

Being honest here, we put up a poll thread of what the community would think of a relaunch of Lordaeron early last year. It was shot down with a resounding 'No'. Kaer wasn't really happy with the first day of replies of ranting on the thread, so it was closed.

We ended up going forward with the realm anyway, as a staff-only realm for us to play on and for us to enjoy. A realm where we could play the game how we think it should be played (read: custom, improved version beyond Blizzard's; not "blizz-like"). Things like no RDF, for example. "Hardcore".

But then players started discovering the realm on our realmlist and that they were able to log into it. And so they did. At the time, we were working only on quests -- particularly those for leveling. While it was very basic at that point, it was still an improvement over our other Wrath realms. Especially in regards to LoS and pathing. Eventually the population built up to a regular amount of 20 or so non-staff playing on the server at any given time. So, Kaer decided, **** it, let's go forward with the Lordaeron project despite what the community voiced in that poll thread.

We announced it. Hype amongst the community ensued. And before we knew it, here we are now.

And... that is how the cookie crumbles.

[Mercy]

You specifically went out and PROMISED us a server that would not be p2w,

So yes, technically Lordaeron is Pay-To-Win with their current business model.

Aye, that can't be denied. But the real question is: Is it fair? Is it acceptable?

Literally on this exact thread. Nothing was "promised" about "P2W". What was promised was a specific set model and limits which we would not break; which we haven't and still intend not to do.

[lenthas]

Being honest here, we put up a poll thread of what the community would think of a relaunch of Lordaeron early last year. It was shot down with a resounding 'No'. Kaer wasn't really happy with the first day of replies of ranting on the thread, so it was closed.

We ended up going forward with the realm anyway, as a staff-only realm for us to play on and for us to enjoy. A realm where we could play the game how we think it should be played (read: custom, improved version beyond Blizzard's; not "blizz-like"). Things like no RDF, for example. "Hardcore".

But then players started discovering the realm on our realmlist and that they were able to log into it. And so they did. At the time, we were working only on quests -- particularly those for leveling. While it was very basic at that point, it was still an improvement over our other Wrath realms. Especially in regards to LoS and pathing. Eventually the population built up to a regular amount of 20 or so non-staff playing on the server at any given time. So, Kaer decided, **** it, let's go forward with the Lordaeron project despite what the community voiced in that poll thread.

We announced it. Hype amongst the community ensued. And before we knew it, here we are now.

And... that is how the cookie crumbles.

Yeh now I remeber how this all started.

I just think and I'm saddened that the majority of the players may end up being literally 12 year olds and im not saying that in a bad way, I'm saying that in a way that they have no idea of what money is worth, have little to no real world experience and then get amazed when the world adapts.

They're like 90 year olds with no will to adapt to the reality of the world and with the mentality of "I own everything" of a 12 year old...It amazes me how much knowledge of reality they lack, they are so enclosed into the game they forget its a damn game, and a free service at that, but it needs "fuel" to run and that doesn't come free...

Not only that they have no idea how the first private servers truly were with all those OP items on shops, and when the first few private servers came around and offered only items obtainable ingame, everyone was happy, now offer a 200 item lvl item, which is current naxx and they lose their damn minds...

I understand some of their PoV of wanting a "hardcore" realm, limited buying power, but it's impossible for that to work...

Even blizzard has their cash shop for crying out loud and you pay a subscription there, I mean how blinded can you be to not realize something so simple as basic economics...

[Uzihunter]

Literally on this exact thread. Nothing was "promised" about "P2W". What was promised was a specific set model and limits which we would not break; which we haven't and still intend not to do.

I don't understand. It looks like you are just admited that this is p2w server...I mean,buying unobtaninable in-game gear (for now) is p2w,no matter how much anyone try to prove it's not. so question is,what are we doing here then,if we consciously goin' against everything what made WOTLK that good? I said few times you could get donations for mounts,heirlooms,leveling boosts etc. someone said: there is no enough people interested in that (why don't you test it on x1 server with 10k people? maybe there will be insanse interest in those)...after we said: ok,but if there is gear in shop,everyone will be ahead in gear (because we play hardcore buffed realm,don't we? naxx 10 gear is not dropping from borean tundra mobs as I recall). We got answer: There is so small number of those donations that it will be un-noticable. So...let me think once again...small amount of people buying gear? small amount of people buying mounts,boosts etc.? we play hardcore WOTLK realm,expansion that is holy grail. You could maybe go with option to give people who don't like level chance to be there sooner,and at the end game,we will all feel same. I could buy mount,that guy will donate for heirlooms,other will boost himself to 70(80). eventually,on this populated server there will be certain amount of people who will constantly donate for something of that...IF we speak about small percentage of people who donate,ofcourse. because those few buying gear won't make difference against those few buying some boosts,mounts,etc.AMIRITE? name change,faction change,appereance change..people do those things ALOT (I myself spent some good money on other server because of that and I never felt ahead of someone,and there was alot other people doing that)....reminder: this is discussion,don't get me wrong.

[lenthas]

I don't understand. It looks like you are just admited that this is p2w server...I mean,buying unobtaninable in-game gear (for now) is p2w,no matter how much anyone try to prove it's not. so question is,what are we doing here then,if we consciously goin' against everything what made WOTLK that good? I said few times you could get donations for mounts,heirlooms,leveling boosts etc. someone said: there is no enough people interested in that (why don't you test it on x1 server with 10k people? maybe there will be insanse interest in those)...after we said: ok,but if there is gear in shop,everyone will be ahead in gear (because we play hardcore buffed realm,don't we? naxx 10 gear is not dropping from borean tundra mobs as I recall). We got answer: There is so small number of those donations that it will be un-noticable. So...let me think once again...small amount of people buying gear? small amount of people buying mounts,boosts etc.? we play hardcore WOTLK realm,expansion that is holy grail. You could maybe go with option to give people who don't like level chance to be there sooner,and at the end game,we will all feel same. I could buy mount,that guy will donate for heirlooms,other will boost himself to 70(80). eventually,on this populated server there will be certain amount of people who will constantly donate for something of that...IF we speak about small percentage of people who donate,ofcourse. because those few buying gear won't make difference against those few buying some boosts,mounts,etc.AMIRITE? name change,faction change,appereance change..people do those things ALOT (I myself spent some good money on other server because of that and I never felt ahead of someone,and there was alot other people doing that)....reminder: this is discussion,don't get me wrong.

Edit that and put some paragraphs in there man, thats unreadable.

[Obnoxious]

I said few times you could get donations for mounts,heirlooms,leveling boosts etc. someone said: there is no enough people interested in that (why don't you test it on x1 server with 10k people? maybe there will be insanse interest in those).

Because we've been doing this for years and know what "sells," what people are up to donating for.

we play hardcore WOTLK realm,expansion that is holy grail.

You know what the Holy Grail and huge servers that maintain themselves long-term without donations have in common?
Both are myths.

[linkoynn]

Being honest here, we put up a poll thread of what the community would think of a relaunch of Lordaeron early last year. It was shot down with a resounding 'No'. Kaer wasn't really happy with the first day of replies of ranting on the thread, so it was closed.

We ended up going forward with the realm anyway, as a staff-only realm for us to play on and for us to enjoy. A realm where we could play the game how we think it should be played (read: custom, improved version beyond Blizzard's; not "blizz-like"). Things like no RDF, for example. "Hardcore".

But then players started discovering the realm on our realmlist and that they were able to log into it. And so they did. At the time, we were working only on quests -- particularly those for leveling. While it was very basic at that point, it was still an improvement over our other Wrath realms. Especially in regards to LoS and pathing. Eventually the population built up to a regular amount of 20 or so non-staff playing on the server at any given time. So, Kaer decided, **** it, let's go forward with the Lordaeron project despite what the community voiced in that poll thread.

We announced it. Hype amongst the community ensued. And before we knew it, here we are now.

And... that is how the cookie crumbles.

Props to the staff for doing this, as im enjoying no rdf feature normal speed lvling and meaningful raids.
Just about any new feature added on retail was meant to make the game easier, all "improvements" meant for casuals (nothing against ppl that want to play 1-2h a day ) so blizz can draw more cash from subs, well here u dont have subs and u dont have to stick to that business plan

I was frustrated with few items on the marketplace but now i no longer care and i will not care for as long as it remains 1 tier lower than obtainable.
The only BiS items on the shop are few trinkets that are bought for gold ingame anyway.

[Azuross]

Not gonna make a wall of text, but in bullet points what I`m thinking:

Its more than okay to make items available on the point shop that are 1 tier below the best items available ingame, if and only if;
* these items are not BiS for classes (based on the arguement about the darkmooncard greatness which is superiour to ilevel 213 trinkets for some classes);
* These prices remain as high as they are (to restrict the amount of items people actually get for their money)
* all the pvp items offered in the shop could reasonably be obtained in the time inbetween the moment that they came available, and the moment they end up in the shop.
* There should be sufficient amounts of time inbetween the moments when a new pvp season (with gear opens), and when the 'old season' gear becomes available in the shop. I.e. people should not be able to buy their spot to end up among the dedicated players who farmed everything themselves. Actually, same stuff with pve items imo.

About the drama regarding the availability of hatefull weapons and gear: on one hand seeing that for example rollarz+kollektief, who have 2.3 k 2`s rating atm, only have 2-3 hatefull items and not even deadly mainset parts nor the weapons, while full hatefull sets are actually available in the shop already, as well as hatefull weapons is kind of odd. On the other hand you could argue that IF they did a ****load of PVE to get valor badges, and bought full hatefull set with it... they could have had it if they wanted too... Though i wouldnt agree as thats not reasonable to me.

[LoudDog]

So in translation .....no more hardcore Lordaeron in the future ,after that the realm losses the status of hardcore ,so implementing RDF should not be the problem any more and also no excuses to not add it in the future .
Also if this is true ,some people will never experience pre ICC raiding content so it will be same as Deathwing and Ragnaros but with low ratio of exp ...etc .

In my opinion it should stay a true Blizzlike server and just keep developing it till it's complete with full blizzlike scrypt ....to say bug free .

I know they need to increase their income, but then why not make another Blizzlike server after they finish scrypting Loraeron and release it with RDF ,points shop etc. so ppl who still want to play "hardcore" stay on Lordaeron and the bunch that want to donate and skipp the content transfer to that new server .... it will fix lag/disconnect problem due to overload of large player base and u will have both type of ppl happy ....the one who want true Blizzlike content and the ones who want to skip that grind .

With love Tonychopper o/

[Slaytan1c]

You know what the Holy Grail and huge servers that maintain themselves long-term without donations have in common?
Both are myths.

QFT.

People need to stop harping on the pay to win thing. Listen. P2W entails giving a direct gear advantage to people who buy the gear, vs people who raid and earn it. They have already stated that the gear you will be able to buy, WILL BE A LOWER TIER THAN THE CURRENT MAXIMUM TIER VIA RAIDING.

Which part of that are people not understanding? ill say it again: THE GEAR YOU CAN BUY FROM DONATING TO KEEP THE SERVER ALIVE WILL BE A LOWER TIER THAN THE CURRENT MAXIMUM TIER VIA RAIDING.

Does it need to be said a 3rd time? Or a 4th time? If you want better gear, you raid. Why is this such an issue for people? Some people do not have the time, will or skill to raid out a full set of BiS. They still want to play WoW however and have fun, playing the game in a manner that makes them happy. Buying some gear that isnt as powerful as current top raid tier saves them time, and lets them have fun in a manner of their own choosing. Only someone who are impossibly selfish, or entitled, could have an issue with this server making enough money so you can continue playing.

On a side note, these cash shop haters have made (with very very few exceptions) ANY reasonable suggestions as to alternative means of bringing the server income. That number Obnoxious threw out about half the pop donating 1/20 of the needed cash is utterly mindblowing. What is wrong with people?

[Arael]

Hence why NOTHING is free, even that "promo" item you get at the store has a cost for some one, they "gamble" with the belief they MAY gain a customer and that is what warmane tried to do.

Offered the best "free" service and saw if it would work, the costs in this case don't match the donations for it to function, so something has to change.

Problem is people are so damn nitpicky, I don't think those players ever had to play on a private server where donors had 2 million hp on wotlk content...

Im not saying "bend over or leave", this isn't the case here at all, its still the best wotlk experience you can get so why are people nitpicking so damn hard is beyond me.

You didn't really understand what It really means.

Anyway, I am not surprised, we will probably find more services inside the store.

[Uzihunter]

You didn't really understand what It really means.

Anyway, I am not surprised, we will probably find more services inside the store.

yep,he totally lost it haha

[buhehe]

Will the item requirement be preserved?
"- Item level requirement (i.e. must have Edge of Agony equipped before Fleshrender can be obtained using coins"

Can anyone confirm if this rule is staying or going?

[Lacplesis]

I really don't get why people cry abouth Donathing.. Donors get only faster Items.. how its P2W ? How? you just get gear faster ( same gear that people can get in game.. ) so hows it's Pay2Win ? some peaople don't have 3 hours of free time to just farm one Raid.. ( and be lucky 2 get something ) they will work their *** off to get money and then donate better.. :P

#PeopleHaveLife

in my mind P2W is 2 be over powered.. better geared.. etc..
yes at start it will be kinda op.. but in time Non Donors will have it to..

Donate - Save Time :P