Cataclysm [Guide] Combat Rogue PvE

[blicax]

ppl. its worth to smash 3 orbs and make http://www.wowhead.com/item=67602 ?? or.. there are better weapons to start raiding?

and about this . can u tip me :D

[Whatsy]

what about it?

Is it good atm because of the bugged mastery?

Pls answer only if you tested it in raids.

[dominitian]

Is it good atm because of the bugged mastery?

Pls answer only if you tested it in raids.

1) is the crab in one of the trinkets i meaning myself, taralej, rec, or ryu enumerated ?
2) do you even know what is your stat priority as a rogue? last time i checked it was agility > hit capped 8 > expertise cap 26 > mastery > haste > crit .... where exactly do you see dodge there? and yeah the passive stat is also important
1+ 2 = your logical answer that you are looking for (meaning NO ! )
is only ok if you just reach 85 and you don`t have any other decent trinket and your tank doesn`t want it,don`t ninja it from him like i said before our BiS trinkets are not that hard to get .... really
also if you do pugs and people will see that trinket on you they will think you are a ninja and some might even go that far and kick you out
P.S. i would`ve been a fool to test it in raids when i have all 3 BiS trinkets available to me

[Whatsy]

. . .porcelain crab dropped from ToT Hc. I asked if anyone needed it and got it. +10% DPS increase compared to the Alchemy trink.

lol.

So if it't 10% better then Alchemy trinket, is it better then Tia's Grace?
Tia's Grace give ~1.1 more mastery then Alchemy trinket after reforge.

1) I don't know any of you personaly or ingame, so everything you say or claim don't mean **** to me. I belive in what I see (Maybe if you would be a little nicer like taralej or Griefel I would listen to you).

2) I've been always folowing stat priority, but lately I started experimenting (mainly with expertise cap) and I think nothing is certain. *need more testing*

I don't pug, I raid with my guild. Idk if you can call this raiding, it's just farming so why not test something different.

And I'll say it again ---> Pls anwer only if u tested it.

[Seigfried]

I tested it and.can confirm the crab is lower dps than Tias Grace.

Makes sense as it has an ICD of 1min 20s averaging its mastery proc to around 290 same as that of Tias Gracr.
However Tias provides bonus agi +340 so its definitely better.

.

@Dominitian
I dont see you contributing much to the thread other than just smarttalk. People are meant to be inquisitive.
I suggest u drop ur high handedness or gtfo.

[dominitian]

I tested it and.can confirm the crab is lower dps than Tias Grace.

Makes sense as it has an ICD of 1min 20s averaging its mastery proc to around 290 same as that of Tias Gracr.
However Tias provides bonus agi +340 so its definitely better.

.

@Dominitian
I dont see you contributing much to the thread other than just smarttalk. People are meant to be inquisitive.
I suggest u drop ur high handedness or gtfo.

that`s because i understand game mechanics and tested most of the trinkets, i have 4-5 diffrent in my bank also did some test with 2 items from armor set and is lower dps than average mastery items, the only thing i didin`t tested is 4 set bonus gear
and dropping 340 agility for dodge would seems logical to have a dps decrease same as Fists weapon bonus when offhand only gives STR and has 2.6 speed instead of just 1.4
sorry if i was ironic or a smartass like you said but you guys just don`t understand that agility is the most important stat for rogues and not mastery

[Acheron1]

I was a mastery stacking rogue before and neglected haste for vicious pvp gear with just mastery.
However my dps suffered because of the lack of haste and energy thereof.

So i wish to confirm that haste is of high importance for dps.

Yeah me too, i feel my dps getting decreased after i reforged all my haste into mastery.

[dominitian]

Yeah me too, i feel my dps getting decreased after i reforged all my haste into mastery.

that`s because your mastery is probabl still low, you need to have at least 19 to start seeing some results i did however some tests where i did tried to see if haste is better than hit rating stacking
I was hit capped 9%, expertise capped 26 than the average agility>mastery>haste and wanted to see if hit stacking is better than haste and reforge all my haste in to hit and tested on dummy so my dps decreased from 23 k which i usually did on dummy to 19 k dps so i can confirm that haste is important and better than hit stacking but not better than mastery because mastery it`s gets better the more you have ... if you`ll ever get to 24 mastery you`ll be amazed of what can you do in raids

[RyuIsaCookie]

There are items with mastery in all slots that you don't actually have to reforge into it. Only the offhand (scaleslicer) and one trinket (fluid death) don't have mastery so it's a matter of farming the right items. Nobody forced people to ignore haste for mastery. Me and a few other guys just told you it was better for us , if you dont feel comfortable with it don't stack it. It's as simple as that. Sorry that we are not some math geniuses to come up with a formula for you to calculate which is more important, we just observed different stat priorities in raids and came to the conclusion Mastery > Haste.
One more thing, think of mastery as the arp in WoTLK. You need a fair amount of it to get it kicking so don't feel down if you have low % and it actually decreases your dps at that point.

[Seigfried]

@ Stellar

Nobody is blaming you bro.
The only person im currently blaming is myself for being such a moron using pvp gear.

TY for all ur inputs.
---------------------------------
One more thing.

Can anyone tell me how to calculate stat weights?
It would be so much nicer to finally compare stats as per Molten standards.
I'll try reading up about it.

[Griefel]

1) is the crab in one of the trinkets i meaning myself, taralej, rec, or ryu enumerated ?
2) do you even know what is your stat priority as a rogue? last time i checked it was agility > hit capped 8 > expertise cap 26 > mastery > haste > crit .... where exactly do you see dodge there? and yeah the passive stat is also important
1+ 2 = your logical answer that you are looking for (meaning NO ! )
is only ok if you just reach 85 and you don`t have any other decent trinket and your tank doesn`t want it,don`t ninja it from him like i said before our BiS trinkets are not that hard to get .... really
also if you do pugs and people will see that trinket on you they will think you are a ninja and some might even go that far and kick you out
P.S. i would`ve been a fool to test it in raids when i have all 3 BiS trinkets available to me

1) on use mastery seems week because of the way mastery works, the procs can be random, and for example although the mastery is more often you could get scenarios where during the trinket proc you can have 2-3 successive mastery procs, and you can get as much as 6 outside the trinket proc time. For this reason all mastery bonuses are alot better if they are static.
2) I am not so sure anymore, mastery is strong, I am at 21 mastery atm and it seems like it's getting better and better, I do not doubt at a certain level of mastery, mastery will be better than agility, we however do not know if that lvl is attainable or not with current gear.

@unsolvable riddle issue: You guys should drop the idea of it being among the Tia's Grace and Fluid Death, those 2 are the best because they offer steady bonuses, available when we maxed out Bandit's Guile, and if that's not convincing, me and my guild mate tested this, because he thought burst trinkets will offer him an edge in burst fights like Magmaw but he lost the bet.

@alchemy stone issue: Crit :C

@Seigfried: Hi back, yeah it didn't drop yet but guildies decided to let me get it when it does, so hopefully sooner than later. :D

[dominitian]

1) on use mastery seems week because of the way mastery works, the procs can be random, and for example although the mastery is more often you could get scenarios where during the trinket proc you can have 2-3 successive mastery procs, and you can get as much as 6 outside the trinket proc time. For this reason all mastery bonuses are alot better if they are static.
2) I am not so sure anymore, mastery is strong, I am at 21 mastery atm and it seems like it's getting better and better, I do not doubt at a certain level of mastery, mastery will be better than agility, we however do not know if that lvl is attainable or not with current gear.

@unsolvable riddle issue: You guys should drop the idea of it being among the Tia's Grace and Fluid Death, those 2 are the best because they offer steady bonuses, available when we maxed out Bandit's Guile, and if that's not convincing, me and my guild mate tested this, because he thought burst trinkets will offer him an edge in burst fights like Magmaw but he lost the bet.

@alchemy stone issue: Crit :C

@Seigfried: Hi back, yeah it didn't drop yet but guildies decided to let me get it when it does, so hopefully sooner than later. :D

1 )@Griefel do you have SS on Magmaw when you say your guildmate lost the bet ?
2) i had a in game conversation with Ryu, before i thought the same as you do Griefel but he shared some info so it`s his credit and i have to say i agree with him now after i tested it for myself. On some boss encounters like Council you can`t stay permanently on the boss, if you can`t do that your Deep Insight will reset meaning loss of dps, but if you are using a burst trinket you will get the best output of your dps before that happens
on magmaw when Head is down he takes 100% more dmg so if you use a burst trinket you can maximize your dmg in this phase
3) in boss encounters like Chimaeron when you can stay permanently on boss Tia`s is better
P.S. sorry to hear token didin`t dropped, better luck next time

[Seigfried]

Just keep all 3 and vanish change trinkets.

[Justicerr]

@unsolvable riddle issue: You guys should drop the idea of it being among the Tia's Grace and Fluid Death, those 2 are the best because they offer steady bonuses, available when we maxed out Bandit's Guile, and if that's not convincing, me and my guild mate tested this, because he thought burst trinkets will offer him an edge in burst fights like Magmaw but he lost the bet.

then your mate is doing something wrong as a rogue. Unsolvable Riddle > Tia's Grace in encounters with burst phases and Ryu can confirm this.

[Griefel]

1 )@Griefel do you have SS on Magmaw when you say your guildmate lost the bet ?
2) i had a in game conversation with Ryu, before i thought the same as you do Griefel but he shared some info so it`s his credit and i have to say i agree with him now after i tested it for myself. On some boss encounters like Council you can`t stay permanently on the boss, if you can`t do that your Deep Insight will reset meaning loss of dps, but if you are using a burst trinket you will get the best output of your dps before that happens
on magmaw when Head is down he takes 100% more dmg so if you use a burst trinket you can maximize your dmg in this phase
3) in boss encounters like Chimaeron when you can stay permanently on boss Tia`s is better
P.S. sorry to hear token didin`t dropped, better luck next time

I don't have the ss of me and my guildmate at Magmaw but that's irrelevant, that which i mentioned was anecdotal evidence at best, take it with a grain of salt. My opinion is you should be using on use Agi effects but not mastery ones because of what I explained upper.
On the matter of stacking however, Deep Insight is the problem, the trinkets are not since they seem to proc from melee attacks, special yellows, mastery procs and even poisons(I would not be surprised if they proc of each other), so in a matter of 1-2 gcds they are usually both(FD and Tia's) capped, remaining permanently at full bonus.