WotLK BiS HOLY Paladin pre-naxx thread?

[rikaya]

Use SoW when you need mana, use SoL when your mana is fine?? More throughput?? Profit...?

Low-gear:
425mana per seal. A global and 4% of your mana for a period of 5% more healing until your mana is not fine anymore (effectively around 200 more on Flash of Light if you crit a lot) including no 5% "less mana used" as far as you don't have the SoW glyph.
--> Might not be too crucial for the MT if you run 2 hpallys to keep him topped. Still a bad idea. In the end you will waste so much mana and globals for only 200 more healing on each FoL during SoL. Every fight where you could benefit from higher healing will drain your mana anyways.
In a heal intensive fight: Either 200more healing OR burning less mana + you can meleehit for huge mana regen?
On top this will in practice only work on fights where you can actually meleehit.
Near-end-gear:
I'm the only hpally in our raid and in OS25 +3 our 56k hp tank gets average 25k hits. Which means near 1shot if i don't precast Holy Light on Flame Breath + upcoming melee hit. Wasting globals for SoL/SoW glyph switching will lead to high manawaste and presumably a dead tank.
SoL Glyph gives around 650more healing on Holy Light, which overheals most of the time anyways. (Except when breath+meleehit, where 650 difference each wouldn't save the tank at all.)
I quote: "Use SoW when you need mana, use SoL when your mana is fine?"
-->In OS25 +3 my mana is literally never fine.
Also: 41k mana regained by Seal of Wisdom is reason enough to just stick with it and not waste any global for seal swapping (Logs).

This is simply not a good and in practice manaheavy playstyle with no benefit at all.

You do realise that all caster classes, withouth a single exception have a +70% pushback reduction right?

Affliction doesn't have pushback reduce for shadowbolt.
Boomkin doesn't have pushback reduce for wrath.
Demo doesn't have pushback reduce at all. (0/56/15)
Fire mage would only take 35% for long-ranged bosses.

I mean, could just pay attention to DBM and stop casting.

Sounds like you've never been to ToGC.
There is no dbm timer for Snobold Vassals + you can't fake cast them.
Are you suggesting every healer who has a Snobold on his back shall just stop cast until it's gone (which will stay quite a long time. esp lordaeron-buffed)?
Also no timer for Mistress of Pain jumping.
Nor any timer for Faction Champs (not even cd's).

Originally Posted by rikaya "Int is your best stat to get."

Nobody said it wasn't?

You should give more credit to http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=42413 then...

[Beanlord]

Affliction doesn't have pushback reduce for shadowbolt.
Boomkin doesn't have pushback reduce for wrath.
Demo doesn't have pushback reduce at all. (0/56/15)
Fire mage would only take 35% for long-ranged bosses.

Okay, first of all, any caster that doesn't take their pushback talent should most probably be gkicked from any serious raiding guild. Let's just get that out of the way first.

Demo wlock is generally a support spec, we can all agree on that. And while it can do relatively good dps, I've no idea why you wouldn't get Intesity for a reduction in your filler spell. That's just insane. And why in hell would you spec it 56/15 is beyond my comprehension. What talent for 2 points are you getting instead of Instensity? Imp. Health funnel? Imp. Demon tactics? Mana feed? All of those are so damn useless, or rather completely unneeded. And if you actually think that 10% out of your wlocks crit being converted into your Fel Guard's crit is better than Intensity then you should probably stop playing wlock (don't know if you do, but you should).

Aflliction wlock takes both types of pushback, otherwise constant AoE fights will be quite a pain. Same thing as demo, there is literally nothing to put those extra 2 points in other than imp. CoA which is all in all a waste considering you won't even be using it that often (CoD just does more when a fight is longer than 1m). There's imp.Fel hunter and Grim reach I guess, but you'll have 1/2 imp. Fel hunter and that's enough. Nothing is worth sacrificing your pushback.

Fire mage forgoing Burnung Soul? Are you for real? Maybe you're thinking it's needed in order to pick up crown control spells (Blast wave and Dragon's breath). Well both TTW and FFB can have both of those while still getting 70% pushback reduction. The only downside to this is that you won't have 3/3 Burning sould (regen). Again you can't be serious in thinking any caster will drop this talent.

Now for moonkins I can agree to some degree. Wrath cast is quite fast when you get its respective eclipse. Most moonkins don't deem it necessary to spec into Nature's Focus. I guess the moonkins in the raid will benefit from your 3/3 imp. Conc aura choice.

But other than that, just no. The whole point of not specing it is to min/max.

Sounds like you've never been to ToGC.
There is no dbm timer for Snobold Vassals + you can't fake cast them.
Are you suggesting every healer who has a Snobold on his back shall just stop cast until it's gone (which will stay quite a long time. esp lordaeron-buffed)?
Also no timer for Mistress of Pain jumping.
Nor any timer for Faction Champs (not even cd's).

And you know they're being killed quickly unless you're doing the achievement right? Meaning there's again, literally no need for the talent.

[Lynea]

This is simply not a good and in practice manaheavy playstyle with no benefit at all.

It has absolutely no effect if you have any clue as to what you are doing and can melee something. But hey, it's not like you want people to spec OUT of mana efficiency or anything, RIGHT?

Originally Posted by rikaya "Int is your best stat to get."

You should give more credit to http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=42413 then...

I don't know how else to explain this to you than: There is more to your regen than just intellect. If you can't understand that, then you don't really have any business giving others advice.

[rikaya]

This thread has developed so far offtopic, because you keep trying to find statements that might be discussable/can be seen differently from another pov.



This should be moved to the warlock section.. but for the sake of this "discussion", improving your lock knowledge or w/e:

Spoiler: Show

The following are mostly the words of our guild's main affliction lock.

Demo: 56/15 is the specc we're talking about.
If you miss hit, then ofc sacrifice the pet talents for 3 points in hit.
There is nothing else that you could go for but the demonic empowerment and demonic tactics.
In fact you don't rly need these as far as you're using your pet only for the buff. (atleast currently)
If you got 2 stacking trinkets, it would be useful to send your pet to dps.
E.g. you dont have stacking trinkets, dont need hit, have 3 free points. You send your pet to get a critcial strike on the proccs.
What if it doesn't crit in time. (Our Demolock's pet didn't crit for 20seconds last raid). So the raid completely missed its buff for 20s.
How can you think haste/extra crit on pet wouldn't be useful..
Affliction: Felhunter damage is more than 7% of total damage (check logs yourself), so 1/2 Imp.Felhunter is simply not enoug + gives bigger buff.
Not really much to talk about here, because this is the best way to go. talents
Boomy: In fact, no boomy would go for Nature's Focus atm.

And you know they're being killed quickly unless you're doing the achievement right?

This "quickly" you're talking about is with late-ulduar gear and esp. lordaeron-buff (that's why i specified it before..) around 5+ seconds.
And you want your only hpally to brainafk and throw a 5k holy shock?

[rikaya]

It has absolutely no effect if you have any clue as to what you are doing and can melee something. But hey, it's not like you want people to spec OUT of mana efficiency or anything, RIGHT?

I just did the maths for you lol. Shall i repeat in easy words? You waste so much mana and a global (in fact double the mana and two globals) for such a tiny difference, that it's neither beneficial with low- nor high-end-gear.
Switching seals has simply nothing to do with mana efficiency whatsoever, rather not doing would be efficient (SoW glyph).

There is more to your regen than just intellect.

Oh wait.. i remember. You're the sherlock who suggested going a) http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=40532 or b) http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=40258 instead. (I shall remind you again, this is supposed to be a PRE-naxx-thread?!)
a) 54 mp5 over 74 Int ?
b) 111 sp + 45s icd with 3,5k healing (if you're lucky and it ticks for the whole duration) over 74 Int?

please don't be serious...


I'm just copying this from EJ forum.* cba doing the math again

Spoiler: Show

Intellect has received a HUGE boost with WotLK mechanics, and is now the best stat for Holy Paladins by far. Let me list what 100 Intellect gives you:

126.5 Intellect, with BoK and Divine Intellect
1897 Mana at the start of the fight
39.5mp5 from Divine Plea, if its used on CD.
21.3mp5 from Replenishment, with 90% uptime.
4.7mp5 from Arcane Torrent.
25.3 Spell Power
0.759% Spell Crit
This gives you a lot of mana, which lets you cast a lot more Holy Lights and be more liberal in using them. If you stack this stat you will be able to spam Holy Light during most fights.

*taken from Endoscient, Elitist Jerks

@your mana regain nonsense:
On top of scaling with Divine Intellect, Int also boosts Divine Plea, Belf racial, Hymn of Hope and Manatide.
Of course Int is not the only regen source, but it has by far the biggest influence, simply by giving all the other needed stats anyway.






Edit: 55k mana restored by SoW in 07:50 OS25 +3 fight.
Logs