WotLK I need help in Blood Tanking

[Beanlord]

Haven't raided RS in a while (+2 months), but I haven't seen anything in the changelog either to indicate he's not interruptible anymore. Both his flame and shadow breath were interruptible.

Found this one as well. Contains scripts below on how to fix it. Yeah, forgot to say - Saviana's fire breath is also interruptible.

Edit: found this. It is quite possible that Warmane fixed the bug now.

I see, well hopefully it is fixed (haven't raided at all the past few months), otherwise that's an absurdly easy way to cheese the encounter.

[dike]

To start off, why would you even list Bryntroll? It is nothing but a bait for tanks. Even if it's a heroic version of weapon, it is still worse than pretty much every ICC 10N weapon for a tank. Hell, I'd argue that TOGC 10 level weapons, more specifically 232iLvl weapons, are better than Bryntroll just because former has no hit, expertise or even DPS stats such as critical strike rating, armor penetration or haste.

And yes, I sacrifice that 5% avoidance to get 3% avoidance + aura + insanely bursty threat + free interrupts. Is it worth it? Not only do I think it is absolutely an amazing trade-off, but also a tactical. This isn't just about whether your raid has a FDK or not. This is a spec when your raid has no FDK or he/she is dead and when your raid has barely any hunters/rogues too (Killing Machine procs + Glacier Rot are superb to anything else threat-wise).

Spoiler: Show

Also, yeah, I recently tried going back to the old spec which, more or less, looks just like @angrylol's spec - Icy Talons, Virulence, Anticipation, Epidemic instead of running slightly deeper frost spec. I have to say that while on the old core Rune Strike was broken and you could generate threat without sweating too much, here, on the new core this spec, at least in my eyes, was absolutely terrible. I had no consistent way of generating my threat - it was either Icy Touch or Rune Strike. My guild mates who understand how their class works and how to play their class to the max, when they were on a DPS character, would usually overaggro by a lot because my threat was so inconsistent. I guess TL;DR of this paragraph would be that the old spec is too unreliable to generate most of your threat with Rune Strike which is why I decided to empower Icy Touch even more.

so this build (bdk with imp icy talons a.k.a. "raid buffer") is only usefull in 10 man raids to compensate lack of frost dk or enh shaman? =D
and about spell hit cap - u will enjoy ur taunt misses on shamblings, since they shouldnt be debuffed by imp faerie fire or misery )

[Heraxion]

so this build (bdk with imp icy talons a.k.a. "raid buffer") is only usefull in 10 man raids to compensate lack of frost dk or enh shaman? =D
and about spell hit cap - u will enjoy ur taunt misses on shamblings, since they shouldnt be debuffed by imp faerie fire or misery )

Sigh... Obviously, you didn't read through my first post with BiS list so here I go again.

No, it is extremely useful for 10 mans and still superior in 25 mans compared to UH sub-spec threat wise. All you get from UH sub-spec is 2% more avoidance and 3% spell hit which, if I may add, is not necessary since you will have 9% spell hit rating (9% spell hit rating = 236.09, in case you didn't know) from BiS gear regardless. Yes, Epidemic is nice but considering that you need to use a blood rune (not UH or Frost rune) to refresh your diseases with Glyph of Disease, it isn't going to impact your self-healing ability in any way. Reduced CD on Death and Decay? I never really liked that talent anyway, I'd say it is fine for dungeons and lower tier raids but not for end-game raids.

Of course majority of you will say that it is a pointless spec because 'you will run a FDK or have a Windfury totem' but I highly recommend you to try out the spec. Not only do you get a powerful aura but also an additional 5% haste to your own character.

[dike]

Sigh... Obviously, you didn't read through my first post with BiS list so here I go again.

No, it is extremely useful for 10 mans and still superior in 25 mans compared to UH sub-spec threat wise. All you get from UH sub-spec is 2% more avoidance and 3% spell hit which, if I may add, is not necessary since you will have 9% spell hit rating (9% spell hit rating = 236.09, in case you didn't know) from BiS gear regardless. Yes, Epidemic is nice but considering that you need to use a blood rune (not UH or Frost rune) to refresh your diseases with Glyph of Disease, it isn't going to impact your self-healing ability in any way. Reduced CD on Death and Decay? I never really liked that talent anyway, I'd say it is fine for dungeons and lower tier raids but not for end-game raids.

Of course majority of you will say that it is a pointless spec because 'you will run a FDK or have a Windfury totem' but I highly recommend you to try out the spec. Not only do you get a powerful aura but also an additional 5% haste to your own character.

thats why i would use or suggest to use ur build only 10 man raids or soloing content. since ur avoidance from frigid plate is unreliable anyways, since that nice reduced cd on dnd at least covers, for some extent, the only weakness of bdk tank spec - AOE threat, and even reduced cd of death grip is more usefull than 3% avoidance, since it acts like second taunt

[Heraxion]

thats why i would use or suggest to use ur build only 10 man raids or soloing content. since ur avoidance from frigid plate is unreliable anyways, since that nice reduced cd on dnd at least covers, for some extent, the only weakness of bdk tank spec - AOE threat, and even reduced cd of death grip is more usefull than 3% avoidance, since it acts like second taunt

Death Grip taunt part doesn't work on bosses at the moment correctly as far as I know. Death and Decay isn't going to cover your AOE threat well enough when it comes to the very end-game. In fact, I usually only use it right before the pull and then spread diseases into IT+RS each add individually, (more than once if I know I'm going to need more threat on a target). Honestly, though, Anticipation, as I have already mentioned, provides only 2% additional avoidance to your character and other talents further down the Unholy tree are not as useful as Frost tree's talents. (value wise)

[angrylol]

Don't discard Bryintoll, it drops from first boss, easy to get, that heal helps and if you are an orc you get 5 bonus expertise. If you can tank with fists to get glorenzelg, ok do it. Great weapon to use on a road to get better weapon.

And for a DK good CD use and self healing will get you high results no matter optional and low impact talent choices. So for a new DK - try to see when to use what and when to self heal more to take pressure off healers. That will yield waay better results that tinkering with talent and hoping it will make you magically best. Learn to deal with encounters and tailor talents to what you need.

[Heraxion]

Don't discard Bryintoll, it drops from first boss, easy to get, that heal helps and if you are an orc you get 5 bonus expertise. If you can tank with fists to get glorenzelg, ok do it. Great weapon to use on a road to get better weapon.

Who would let one go in ICC if you literally have no gear for it and more so as a tank? That just makes no sense and unless a player is getting boosted, he is surely going to get a much better weapon from either ICC 10, ICC 5 man dungeons or TOGC 10/25 by the time that same player enters ICC 25.

[taralej]

Lol, so what other weapon do you suggest a starting BDK tank gets? We've got the ToC25 axe, then DBS10 axe, and then we have Bryntroll. Not going through the 5-mans, as the only valid option is Tyrannical Beheader, which is not that great.

The point is that Bryntroll is a valid BDK tanking weapon. The main reason you'd get it over other weapons is, obviously, the self-healing. With a 15% proc, this weapon can net a very big portion of your total healing. Now, we understand your point perfectly that Bryntroll has no combat stats - no hit, no expertise - and thus is unreliable due to having you run below the caps and relying on its proc, but that doesn't necessarily make the weapon bad. As far as sustain goes, this is the best available BDK weapon.

Otherwise, yeah, of course I'd pick Cryptmaker over it if I were looking after stats. Hit to help me reach the cap and ArP, which is Blood's main combat stat.

[jendah]

...Not going through the 5-mans, as the only valid option is Tyrannical Beheader, which is not that great.

Battered hilt?

The point is that Bryntroll is a valid BDK tanking weapon. The main reason you'd get it over other weapons is, obviously, the self-healing. With a 15% proc, this weapon can net a very big portion of your total healing. Now, we understand your point perfectly that Bryntroll has no combat stats - no hit, no expertise - and thus is unreliable due to having you run below the caps and relying on its proc, but that doesn't necessarily make the weapon bad. As far as sustain goes, this is the best available BDK weapon.

I don't like Bryntoll -> its going to overheal a lot (healers ussually keep you topped). Yes it is an option and it could help sometimes, I would just take pretty much any 245+ two-hander over it. (including polearms with agi for armor/additional dodge)

...ArP, which is Blood's main combat stat.

Arpen doesn't make sense for a tank imho. As it gets more valueable more you have of it - this tiny bit will not make much difference. In addition it buffs only physical dmg and main source of threat is still IT even for full blood-build.

[Heraxion]

http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=48713 -Drops from 10m tribute chest by defeating Anub'arak with 25+ attempts left
http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50296 - HOR HC (Marwyn)
http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=50048 - Battered Hilt
http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=49498 - Onyxia 25
http://wotlk.openwow.com/item=49299 - Onyxia 10

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[angrylol]

By this logic, there is no sense to use Death Strike and Rune tap, because, you know, healers keep you topped.

Base damage of Bryntroll give you nice threat, nice heal and even more free threat from that proc, fast speed for rune strikes, two sockets, three if heroic. None of those weapons above are better.
Ok I understand cap exp, hit. Of coarse.

Don't pass Bryntroll because you have some pigpoker with crit and haste.

[Heraxion]

By this logic, there is no sense to use Death Strike and Rune tap, because, you know, healers keep you topped.

Death Strike and Rune Tap are heals on demand, Bryntroll's proc is random...

Base damage of Bryntroll give you nice threat, nice heal and even more free threat from that proc, fast speed for rune strikes, two sockets, three if heroic. None of those weapons above are better.
Ok I understand cap exp, hit. Of coarse.

Don't pass Bryntroll because you have some pigpoker with crit and haste.

No, stop. To begin with, lower itemization levels mean less avoidance in ICC and RS (possibly only few percentages of dodge and ~20% parry). Now to extend your point about using a 'pigpoker with crit and haste'. Bryntroll can provide up to 185 strength and 173 Stamina+3 gems for an additional 90 stamina (263 stamina with x3 Solid Majestic Zircon gems). Due to lower level of itemization, though, you lack expertise or hit since you cannot optimize your gear ideally when progressing through the content this quickly. If either of those stats are missing, you are risking to miss an ability and cause a raid wipe OR have your ability dodged and die or generate less threat than you would.

Remember that Rune Strike is now fixed and doesn't function sort of like Heroic Strike but more like an ability which can only be used after a specific condition has been met (dodge/parry an attack). Also, while you may be able to get up to 263 stamina from the weapon, you will then end up having to gem for expertise/hit which means you gain less value overall from your build. Furthermore, if your Bryntroll overheals majority of the time, it is going to lose its overall value even more.

Seriously, though, think about it - you are trying to itemize to take damage consistently, also known as the effective-health method. Why suddenly try to go with an inconsistent item?

[jendah]

By this logic, there is no sense to use Death Strike and Rune tap, because, you know, healers keep you topped.

Death Strike and Rune tap are completely different from this proc. - you decide when they heal you - you can either be a mediocre dk and overheal a ton or a great one by healing just after you take dmg. Proc is unreliable and way smaller.

One more crit on IT gives you more threat than this proc over the whole fight.

Threat from proc is far worse than hit/expertise. And on parry hasting bosses expertise provides more dmg reduction than bryntol is capable of healing. In addition using expertise weap allows you to get armor legs, while keeping reasonable expertise.

Its better than nothing, and can be opted for.. I just happen to see way more downsides.

[taralej]

Hmm, I completely forgot about BH and Onyxia, honestly. I've never ever gotten either of these two weapons on any of my chars. Yeah, you're right about ArP's low value at low amount.

If we're talking about really good weapons, of course, the choice would be Gloren so that you can get better legs, that's for sure. Bryntroll is just like an entry level weapon or something like that. Honestly, that's what I upgraded from Tyrannical Beheader, but then replaced it when I got Marrow10 sword :D Because Bryntroll is just far better for my Unholy DPS spec and the stats on the claymore are not that bad at all.

[angrylol]

Rofl. Use the handbrake. From which finger you sucked out that someone said its BEST OMG GET IT NOW, DELETE ALL OTHER WEAPONS. It is a weapon, you will down bosses with it and you will get some heals out of it. Interesting weapon, with some fun moments and with some epic life-saving moments too. Who said that proc is "reliable"? No one, "chance on hit" is self explanatory. But it is one of most interesting weapons of endgame.
Some people play WoW for entertainment and that axe delivers. So you can scroll all that crap and stuck it where sun don't shine. I killed 25hc LK with it and it was epic experience.
Of coarse there are better weapons, but 60 stamina cant cure things.