As usual.. Ninja looting bans

[romz]

A:It means viability,thats why you don't roll on two one handed weapons/staffs as a warrior.
B:Your spec can't use it,enchancement is based on dual wielding.You can equip it,big difference.

There is a thing called "Play Style" or "Playing outside the norm". It still is part of his main spec if that is the weapon he wants to use, again doesn't mean MS > OS is viability.

[SilverFlash]

There is a thing called "Play Style" or "Playing outside the norm". It still is part of his main spec if that is the weapon he wants to use, again doesn't mean MS > OS is viability.

Except that your MS is based on dual wielding,you can't even use the two handed weapon properly.Dual wield is a talent,a must have talent,one of your abilities is requiring an offhand,your procs are depending on dual wielding.This is not the case of a frost dk(which still worse with a two handed weapon than dual wielding,but can still benefit 100% more from a two handed weapon equipped than an enhancement shaman).You're only pulling a dick move if you roll against dk/warrior/paladin/feral tanks(2h maces) on a two handed weapon.You don't play outside the norm by being stupid and needing/using stuff thats not meant for your spec,and being useless after you equip it.Thats why people doesn't need dead weight in the form of bm/sv hunters,frost mages,arms warriors,sub rogues in pve - they would be outside the norm,but also outside the minimum requirements of raiding.

[romz]

Except that your MS is based on dual wielding,you can't even use the two handed weapon properly.Dual wield is a talent,a must have talent,one of your abilities is requiring an offhand,your procs are depending on dual wielding.This is not the case of a frost dk(which still worse with a two handed weapon than dual wielding,but can still benefit 100% more from a two handed weapon equipped than an enchancement shaman).You're only pulling a dick move if you roll against dk/warrior/paladin/feral tanks(2h maces) on a two handed weapon.You don't play outside the norm by being stupid and needing/using stuff thats not meant for your spec,and being useless after you equip it.Thats why people doesn't need dead weight in the form of bm/sv hunters,frost mages,arms warriors,sub rogues in pve - they would be outside the norm,but also outside the minimum requirements of raiding.

Except, you can have a build that completely avoids Dual Wield Talent. For being a "Must Have" it sure as hell seems optional. Also the minimum requirement for raiding is the gear, not the spec.

[SilverFlash]

Except, you can have a build that completely avoids Dual Wield Talent. For being a "Must Have" it sure as hell seems optional. Also the minimum requirement for raiding is the gear, not the spec.

Okay,at this point you're either trolling or doesn't know jack **** about enhancement nor raiding.You'll miss:Lava Lash,and 6% hit if you don't pick dual-wield.And you're wrong,the spec just as important as the gear.Why would anyone gimp himself intentionally just to be that "special snowflake" who is "playing outside the norm" at the expense of others?

[Skoobydoo]

Also the minimum requirement for raiding is the gear, not the spec.

thats not true.2h enh will never get into raid unless the raid leader is blind or complete *****.if warrior have 6k+ gs and he is using a staff as weapon you think anyone will inv him to raid?cmon at this point you just wanna argue there is no way you really believe what you are saying.

[romz]

Okay,at this point you're either trolling or doesn't know jack **** about enchancement nor raiding.You'll miss:Lava Lash,and 6% hit if you don't pick dual-wield.And you're wrong,the spec just as important as the gear.Why would anyone gimp himself intentionally just to be that "special snowflake" who is "playing outside the norm" at the expense of others?

Or the fact that you seem to think Dual Wielding is actually required shows you don't know anything about enhancement.

You do realize that you can pick what talents you want right?

[Mercy]

There is a thing called "Play Style" or "Playing outside the norm". It still is part of his main spec if that is the weapon he wants to use, again doesn't mean MS > OS is viability.

And Fury Warriors in WotLK can dual wield one-handed weapons. Do you think should mean such a person should be able to need roll on them over someone else like a Frost DK or Rogue? If you say yes, then I think you should be aware that's not how raid looting works 99% of the time.

[Dralanne1]

you seem to miss the the fact that 2h enha is still viable in pvp.

if a player joins a dungeon/raid for item wich he needs for pvp, i do think it is a decent reason to let him roll for it.

cus, you know you only do pve to get gear for pvp after all...
its a fact that pvp > pve.

[Mercy]

you seem to miss the the fact that 2h enha is still viable in pvp.

if a player joins a dungeon/raid for item wich he needs for pvp, i do think it is a decent reason to let him roll for it.

That's up to the raid leader. In most cases, rolling for pvp does not compete with nor take priority over the standard 'need' rolls for pve. Even moreso when it's a roll for a gimmicky spec. Such a thing is normally treated as an "offspec" roll, much like a Frost DK rolling on a 2h weapon for a gimmicky trollz0r 2h Frost spec for pvp.

cus, you know you only do pve to get gear for pvp after all...
its a fact that pvp > pve.

Um, what?

[Dralanne1]

That's up to the raid leader. In most cases, rolling for pvp does not compete with nor take priority over the standard 'need' rolls for pve. Even moreso when it's a roll for a gimmicky spec. Such a thing is normally treated as an "offspec" roll, much like a Frost DK rolling on a 2h weapon for a gimmicky trollz0r 2h Frost spec for pvp.

while this is true, during the rdf run, you cant rly set the rules yourself. its not like if ppl dont agree with what you want you should leave the dungeon and get 30min deserter buff for it?
yeah in raids that would be treated the way you wrote most likely.

Um, what?

you herd me! :>


the point what i want to say, is that during rdf runs where rules are auto set to group loot, bans should be given in very rare cases if even given at all.
and if group is pre-made and leader said nothing about reserved loot or loot rules whatsoever, basicly you could assume its groups fault for not asking the loot rules no? its another case if lead says missleading rules.

[Skoobydoo]

you seem to miss the the fact that 2h enha is still viable in pvp.

if a player joins a dungeon/raid for item wich he needs for pvp, i do think it is a decent reason to let him roll for it.

cus, you know you only do pve to get gear for pvp after all...
its a fact that pvp > pve.

you more then welcome to buy wrathful 2h weapon then from you know...PVP vendors.

the point what i want to say, is that during rdf runs where rules are auto set to group loot, bans should be given in very rare cases if even given at all.
and if group is pre-made and leader said nothing about reserved loot or loot rules whatsoever, basicly you could assume its groups fault for not asking the loot rules no? its another case if lead says missleading rules.

if there is no punishment for RDF what stop every enchanter to ninjaroll every single item just so he can get the crystal or hunter needing a shield for example just because he feel like it.

[romz]

That's up to the raid leader. In most cases, rolling for pvp does not compete with nor take priority over the standard 'need' rolls for pve. Even moreso when it's a roll for a gimmicky spec. Such a thing is normally treated as an "offspec" roll, much like a Frost DK rolling on a 2h weapon for a gimmicky trollz0r 2h Frost spec for pvp.

Um, what?

Just because something is "gimmicky" does not make it bad or less viable. A person raids to gain the gear they want for their class/spec regardless. There is generally no priority in what use the gear has for a spec. Especially since you do have to do some PvE for PvP in WotLK for Offset/Weapons.

As for your Fury Warrior comparison Titan's Grip is completely optional as a talent, you can always dump that talent point elsewhere if you want to use 2 1h weapons.

[Skoobydoo]

Just because something is "gimmicky" does not make it bad or less viable. A person raids to gain the gear they want for their class/spec regardless. There is generally no priority in what use the gear has for a spec. Especially since you do have to do some PvE for PvP in WotLK for Offset/Weapons.

As for your Fury Warrior comparison Titan's Grip is completely optional as a talent, you can always dump that talent point elsewhere if you want to use 2 1h weapons.

dude pls explain why warrior cant roll on staff then?following your logic there is nothing wrong with that.
or let hunters roll for thrown weapons?

[Dralanne1]

you more then welcome to buy wrathful 2h weapon then from you know...PVP vendors.



if there is no punishment for RDF what stop every enchanter to ninjaroll every single item just so he can get the crystal or hunter needing a shield for example just because he feel like it.

i told you except rare cases, hunters cant even eq shield. and for enha 2h is viable at some point even tho its extremely rare case. i am simply saying that bans shouldnt be given for things you can actually equip. atleast in rdf. its another story for raids.

[Mercy]

Just because something is "gimmicky" does not make it bad or less viable. A person raids to gain the gear they want for their class/spec regardless. There is generally no priority in what use the gear has for a spec. Especially since you do have to do some PvE for PvP in WotLK for Offset/Weapons.

As for your Fury Warrior comparison Titan's Grip is completely optional as a talent, you can always dump that talent point elsewhere if you want to use 2 1h weapons.

I'm not arguing about what is or is not bad and/or viable. That much is irrelevant. What is relevant is what a raid leader and their raid group are going to decide is acceptable for rolls. If you are a person that is granted an item that is not within the established loot rules provided by the raid leader, then guess what? That's ninja-looting. Whether you think it is or not can be argued, but that's not the policy. The policy is very clear.

while this is true, during the rdf run, you cant rly set the rules yourself. its not like if ppl dont agree with what you want you should leave the dungeon and get 30min deserter buff for it?
yeah in raids that would be treated the way you wrote most likely.

If we're talking about the dungeon finder, then in my own opinion, having any sort of policy enforced by GMs is rather quite silly. I say this for two reasons. First, you can spam run dungeons far more frequently than you can a raid. Second, there isn't an established "group leader" that is setting loot rules as to who can or cannot loot what and/or why. But at the same time, I can understand why it exists, because there are people who do abuse the system such as this by Skoobydoo;

if there is no punishment for RDF what stop every enchanter to ninjaroll every single item just so he can get the crystal or hunter needing a shield for example just because he feel like it.

In this particular situation, I would personally need roll if I am working on skilling up my enchanting profession. But I would only do this if I was absolutely sure nobody else needed the item in question (this would include asking the party if they were OK with it, and if anyone else had enchanting).