Proposal: Implementing Ability Cooldown Reset After Boss Kill/Wipe in TBC Raids

[OhieMitzen]

Most likely, back in 2007, the developers simply didn’t think of this or didn’t see much point in it. This mechanic (CD reset) was reimagined by the time WOTLK Classic came out (at least I remember it being added there), and the majority of players loved it.

It’s 2025 now, and time is the most valuable resource. If we can save even a couple of minutes without breaking the game’s integrity, why not?

If we’re comparing the original 2007 version to today, I’m pretty sure you yourself use tactics from Wowhead or similar sites. After all, no one forces you to figure out boss mechanics blindly like in the old days.

By the way, if you don’t mind, could you link your Onyxia armory? Maybe you don’t even play there

CD reset came much much later, could debate it's different WoW when that happened. It was definitively a choice they made to have certain skills have extremely long CD's. Which could also mean that makers of the game didn't want the long CD's gone and made menial with reset until much later. Long CD skills are big resources that should be used with caution. Yes, it's 2025 now, but you're playing a game that's emulating how things were in 2007. I only use Wowhead for their dressing room when I'm trying to find interesting transmogs. When I was learning raids, or their more precise tactics, I learned through our GM/RL's. We did attempts, just like you, and often without that big CD being available from the get go. Progress was made even without those big CD spells. Sometimes we simple AFK'd for those CD's. It's amazing feeling when you can put on a good song and listen to it, relax a bit before going tryhard sweatlord on some PvE content.

Yeah, I don't play on Onyxia. What was your point? You think I haven't done any progression ever? Or that I couldn't possibly know anything about Onyxia without ever setting my foot on that realm? Do you think I couldn't apply my vast knowledge and experience on this matter? You think I haven't picked up on WoW design choices, such as long CD skills?

Tactics can be discussed right after a wipe - no need to stretch it over 5 minutes of waiting. Weak gameplay is improved through practice, not downtime. 10 meaningful attempts in an evening teach more than 5 attempts with smoke breaks. Or do you truly believe players productively use those 5 minutes rather than just AFKing in a corner?

Of course, everyone has their own opinion - yours and mine differ in this case, and that's normal. I'm just trying to explain why this is a useful change, not just blindly clinging to 'that's how it was before, so that's how it should be.' After all, even in Classic we've long been using addons, guides and other conveniences that didn't exist in 2007.

Throwing bodies at boss and hoping things are better this time doesn't do **** if you don't understand, no, if you don't comprehend the boss mechanics, or raid tactics. That's when you actually talk about the fight tactics and mechanics. Or advise another plan to deal with the situation. That takes time.

[Szopachnik]

Yeah, I don't play on Onyxia. What was your point? You think I haven't done any progression ever? Or that I couldn't possibly know anything about Onyxia without ever setting my foot on that realm? Do you think I couldn't apply my vast knowledge and experience on this matter? You think I haven't picked up on WoW design choices, such as long CD skills?

How exactly would resetting cooldowns prevent you from discussing tactics? Are you seriously claiming that analyzing a fight is ONLY possible during those 5 minutes of waiting? What kind of nonsense is that? Cooldown resets just remove pointless downtime – nothing more. Or are you one of those who believe 'real raiders' must suffer?



Then I see no point in continuing this discussion. You joined a conversation specifically about the Onyxia server, yet you don't even play here. Seems you just enjoy arguing for the sake of it. Your gameplay experience or progression achievements don't interest me - we're discussing changes for the server I actually play on, and I'm proposing its players consider this improvement.
Though if you ever roll a character here, feel free to join the conversation!

[angrylol]

Which bosses are mathematically impossible to do without these long cooldowns?

[OhieMitzen]

How exactly would resetting cooldowns prevent you from discussing tactics? Are you seriously claiming that analyzing a fight is ONLY possible during those 5 minutes of waiting? What kind of nonsense is that? Cooldown resets just remove pointless downtime – nothing more. Or are you one of those who believe 'real raiders' must suffer?

You can talk whenever, CD's reset or not. Though since repeated boss attempts were part of the discussion, I'd utilize the time between the pulls to make sure the next pull has more favorable outcome.
I'm one of those who believe that overall the game design is fair what comes to long CD's. We have those in WotLK too in case you forgot or didn't know. They are meant to be resources you use sparingly, hence the long CD. That's how things were designed back then. You only want to get long CD's reset on wipe/kill because it's a bit inconvenient for you as they are now.

Then I see no point in continuing this discussion. You joined a conversation specifically about the Onyxia server, yet you don't even play here. Seems you just enjoy arguing for the sake of it. Your gameplay experience or progression achievements don't interest me - we're discussing changes for the server I actually play on, and I'm proposing its players consider this improvement.
Though if you ever roll a character here, feel free to join the conversation!

You wouldn't care about if I played on Onyxia if I agreed with your suggestion. Since I don't, you cling to it.
I merely disagree with your suggestion as I don't share your view on your suggestion. Onyxia is largely about raid progression, so resources how you do it is important core part of it all, including time. Trivializing long CD's with resets feels cheap. You're, in essence, asking easier boss fights as well since every long CD could be used on every boss.

[Downfallus]

Brilliant idea, I fully support it! Especially since something similar already exists on the PTR, where cooldowns reset at the start of a fight.
You can kill the boss without long cooldowns anyway, but if people want to do it faster to show their best performance, it makes the whole raid wait for cooldown resets between bosses or after a wipe.

[Maslou]

Yeah, I don't play on Onyxia. What was your point? You think I haven't done any progression ever? Or that I couldn't possibly know anything about Onyxia without ever setting my foot on that realm? Do you think I couldn't apply my vast knowledge and experience on this matter? You think I haven't picked up on WoW design choices, such as long CD skills?

You a definitely nt a current gamer, and therefore you do not understand the current realities. If you had read the blizzard blue post about resetting CD, you would not have written this. Now in 2025, there is no question of killing the boss and closing raids. Now the race is within the framework of log rating, which requires all CD for the best result. If you played, you would understand this and would not write nonsense about punishment for wipes.

[Maslou]

Which bosses are mathematically impossible to do without these long cooldowns?

Keltas, Muru in pre-nerf content, and perhaps other bosses like Illidan in phase 3 required heroism. But on Onyxia is now post-nerf difficulty, so you can kill 25r of 15 people. I think author discussions, like me, plays for the result an logs, as well as speed kill boss ratings

[OhieMitzen]

You a definitely nt a current gamer, and therefore you do not understand the current realities. If you had read the blizzard blue post about resetting CD, you would not have written this. Now in 2025, there is no question of killing the boss and closing raids. Now the race is within the framework of log rating, which requires all CD for the best result. If you played, you would understand this and would not write nonsense about punishment for wipes.

And when was this blue post posted, during TBC & WotLK (January 16, 2007 - August 21, 2009), or after WotLK?
The game is about progressing raids and looting better gear to improve yourself and ready yourself for the next tier as it was done during retail days (no, not classic). What people do outside of the original game, such as measuring their epeens and comparing it to others', isn't something that should dictate how the game should be played. I'd say it's even more the reason to not have CD's reset. Now you want spam attempts instead of that one amazing attempt/kill. If you want quantity over quality, you just drain the fun out of the game.

[Maslou]

And when was this blue post posted, during TBC & WotLK (January 16, 2007 - August 21, 2009), or after WotLK?
The game is about progressing raids and looting better gear to improve yourself and ready yourself for the next tier as it was done during retail days (no, not classic). What people do outside of the original game, such as measuring their epeens and comparing it to others', isn't something that should dictate how the game should be played. I'd say it's even more the reason to not have CD's reset. Now you want spam attempts instead of that one amazing attempt/kill. If you want quantity over quality, you just drain the fun out of the game.

None of your arguments cancel the possibility of making these changes. Anhell, I'm even debating with someone who doesn't play this game, lol

[OhieMitzen]

None of your arguments cancel the possibility of making these changes.

The argument isn't if it's possible or not, it's about if it should be implemented or not.

I'm even debating with someone who doesn't play this game, lol

Are you 100% sure about that? You grasp on to that to make your attempts at "counter"arguments. Ever considered if it's a bait or not?
May I remind you this is internet and there's no vow to be made about speaking nothing but the truth.

And in other words, you couldn't, or simply put can't, invalidate the points I've already made on this topic. Would you want to try to refute any of the points I've made so far in this topic, or is that the lifeline you'll hold on to in this debate?

[Szopachnik]

The argument isn't if it's possible or not, it's about if it should be implemented or not.



Are you 100% sure about that? You grasp on to that to make your attempts at "counter"arguments. Ever considered if it's a bait or not?
May I remind you this is internet and there's no vow to be made about speaking nothing but the truth.

And in other words, you couldn't, or simply put can't, invalidate the points I've already made on this topic. Would you want to try to refute any of the points I've made so far in this topic, or is that the lifeline you'll hold on to in this debate?

It's pointless to discuss this with you since you don't even play on the Onyxia server.

Your main argument is "it was like that before, so it should stay that way."

Many changes have already been implemented in the gameplay: dual specialization, post-nerf raids, item releases before their intended phase—none of which were part of the original game.

Resetting cooldowns doesn't affect gameplay—it just eliminates unnecessary waiting.

[Maslou]

The argument isn't if it's possible or not, it's about if it should be implemented or not.
And in other words, you couldn't, or simply put can't, invalidate the points I've already made on this topic. Would you want to try to refute any of the points I've made so far in this topic, or is that the lifeline you'll hold on to in this debate?

Well, I'll play this game

Onyxia is a progressive realm, so having all CD's each fight feels easy mode. No long CD skill would feel like having a cost to do it, which they should, thus the long CD.

I referred to the bluepost because the developers wrote that for strong cooldowns they set such a long CD, increasing their sense of power and value. And you were told that in reality this created a downtime. The developers also agreed with this in the future, and therefore we only see restrictions within one battle in the retail and classic versions. I completely agree with this.
Onyxia is a post-nerf version of BC and there the CD reset will not affect the difficulty of the passage in any way, only the quality and convenience. The main problem is the time after killing the boss and the rating systems of the warmain itself, which make you wait for these CDs.

It's only pointless if you make it pointless. Maybe use the "pointless" downtime to actually learn and discuss tactics. I mean a wipe usually happens because of mistakes or weak performance.

This is just a "pointless" argument, no one is discussing 2007 tactics. And I don’t understand why we are talking about wipes in post-nerf raids that close the entire server without any problems.

CD reset came much much later, could debate it's different WoW when that happened. It was definitively a choice they made to have certain skills have extremely long CD's. Which could also mean that the makers of the game didn't want the long CD's gone and made menial with reset until much later. Long CD skills are great resources that should be used with caution. Yes, it's 2025 now, but you're playing a game that's emulating how things were in 2007. I only use Wowhead for their dressing room when I'm trying to find interesting transmogs. When I was learning raids, or their more precise tactics, I learned through our GM/RL's. We did attempts, just like you, and often without that big CD being available from the get go. Progress was made even without those big CD spells. Sometimes we simple AFK'd for those CD's. It's amazing feeling when you can put on a good song and listen to it, relax a bit before going tryhard sweatlord on some PvE content..

Yeah, I don't play on Onyxia. What was your point? You think I haven't done any progression ever? Or that I couldn't possibly know anything about Onyxia without ever setting my foot on that realm? Do you think I couldn't apply my vast knowledge and experience on this matter? You think I haven't picked up on WoW design choices, such as long CD skills?

I already explained this earlier, and here you only confirm my argument that you are out of touch with reality and do not understand why this function is and what it is for.

You can talk whenever, CD's reset or not. Though since repeated boss attempts were part of the discussion, I'd utilize the time between the pulls to make sure the next pull has a more favorable outcome.
I'm one of those who believe that overall the game design is fair what comes to long CD's. We have those in WotLK too in case you forgot or didn't know. They are meant to be resources you use sparingly, hence the long CD. That's how things were designed back then. You only want to get long CD's reset on wipe/kill because it's a bit inconvenient for you as they are now.

You've already been told that there's nothing to discuss in the tactics of 2007. And especially when trash before the next boss dies in less than 2 minutes. Blizzard was guided by the fact that the player would use long CDs once per battle. The new mechanics of resetting CDs do not contradict this concept and do not make the boss easier to pass. You cannot contradict this argument in any way.

I merely disagree with your suggestion as I don't share your view on your suggestion. Onyxia is largely about raid progression, so resources how you do it is an important core part of it all, including time. Trivializing long CD's with resets feels cheap. You're, in essence, asking easier boss fights as well since every long CD could be used on every boss.

Why don't I want to continue the discussion with you? Because you didn't even think about what it would give. There are very few guilds playing for rating now. Because playing for rating means downtime before each boss to reset the CD, and not every player is ready to spend time on it. Children, household responsibilities leave less time for raiding. Resetting the CDs will give these people the opportunity to also participate in the rating and show better results in the overall standings. Now guilds are divided into priorities - the first are ready to spend time for a better log/killtimer. The second just quickly close the raid and go to bed. Resetting ?Ds will improve the competitive process without affecting balance. Since you do not understand the possibilities of this improvement, I considered your theses to be crap.

[jmsvanbuskirk]

Here's your problem. Why don't we introduce mass resurrection here? Why not create raid wide food and flasks? Why not have reforging? Why not have bonus perks? Why not have heirlooms for ease of leveling? Why not create a one button mass summon for the whole raid? Why not have portals to raid entrances? Why not have spirit resurrection closer to raid entrances? Why not have boss teleports up to bosses you've cleared? Why not have free repair bots like a hearthstone in everyone's bags?

I could go for days on conveniences that could make things less "annoying" in this game. Many of which are present in future expansions. And I can argue all day the same things that have been said in this thread for this particular change for any one of these other things. What you can't argue though is any one of these changes modifies the original game. That's why it's very unlikely to happen.

I play on Onyxia. A change like this hasn't even remotely crossed my mind. Haven't had that downtime. The cooldowns were never even close to required to beat the content and most every cooldown was available by time the raid was ready to pull again anyway. Which makes me believe the people arguing for this are part of the almost non existent speed killing/parse community which continually plague these forums for game modifications to suit their own gameplay. I don't know why anyone would care at all otherwise on Onyxia unless they were incredibly bad at the game.

[OhieMitzen]

It's pointless to discuss this with you since you don't even play on the Onyxia server.

Your main argument is "it was like that before, so it should stay that way."

In essence, yes. This is TBC, not something else. If you want drastic changes, might as well call it something. Might as well call it easy-mode classic if CD's are reset after each attempt/kill. CD reset on attempts I might be persuaded to support, kills never. This would provide the QoL with reset if you're bad at the game. But you'd need to choose which CD's you as a raid want to use. This way it's not easy-mode whenever. Even then, only some bosses should offer CD reset and certainly not last bosses. I opposed it from the start. Now that I had to think how/when/if it should be implemented, even if only after wipes, I find it appalling.

Many changes have already been implemented in the gameplay: dual specialization, post-nerf raids, item releases before their intended phase—none of which were part of the original game.

Most of those were implemented by Warmane. There were no questions or polls to query players if these should be implemented. Not saying that there should've been, just stating that these were thought out and implemented from the get-go. Would you prefer playing 2,5 years with no RDF, and 2 years without a dual spec being possible? Would you like to take the time and effort to level two Paladins, and professions for both, so that you can play Holy and Protection. You could always do the endless amount of talent change, not exactly something cheap if you have to do it on repeat.
Only thing that got polled was if some more or less random items should be released on phases where they actually matter bit more. No big game changing items on that list.
Onyxia got some QoL updates, doesn't mean it should get everything.

Resetting cooldowns doesn't affect gameplay—it just eliminates unnecessary waiting.

It does, and you don't seem to get it. With CD reset, every boss is effectively easier as you get to use big spells each fight instead of every other or even more rare occasion. Every boss Blood lust/Heroism, LoH, Rebirth, Reincarnation, to only name a few from a rather lengthy list, drastically changes boss difficulties. Onyxia is already post-nerf. How trivial you want the boss fights (the biggest think in progression) to be?

[OhieMitzen]

Apologies for the double post, a lot of text and two people to respond to.

And I don’t understand why we are talking about wipes in post-nerf raids that close the entire server without any problems.

Because wipes can still happen for majority of the players.

do not understand why this function is and what it is for.

It's so that you can try to get your big epeen boost by being top 1% in some log fight. Logs which majority doesn't give a flying F about.
It's so that you don't want to waste your time in raids. Most reasonable, but it's World of Warcraft where raids are or can be long.
It's to have easier fights.

resetting CDs do not contradict this concept and do not make the boss easier to pass. You cannot contradict this argument in any way.

2 players die on fight A. They are resurrected mid-battle. Boss is killed and CD's are reset. Fight B starts 3 minutes later, 2 die again, but thanks to CD reset they are resurrected again (normally CD would still be off) -> the fight is easier as those two didn't stay dead -> they didn't cause big DMG loss, their deaths were largely ignored, a mere slight inconvenience. Thus fight B is easier as 2 weren't out for the rest of the fight.

Long CD's being reset also means more heals, more damage, and more defensive CD's -> every fight is easier.

The fights would be easier.

It would also create opportunities for players to ignore game mechanics by "abusing" certain class combos with certain long CD's. Whether this is to get better chances at reaching top scores on epeen logs, or to have easier fights for your average Joe.

Why don't I want to continue the discussion with you? Because you didn't even think about what it would give. There are very few guilds playing for rating now. Because playing for rating means downtime before each boss to reset the CD, and not every player is ready to spend time on it. Children, household responsibilities leave less time for raiding. Resetting the CDs will give these people the opportunity to also participate in the rating and show better results in the overall standings. Now guilds are divided into priorities - the first are ready to spend time for a better log/killtimer. The second just quickly close the raid and go to bed. Resetting ?Ds will improve the competitive process without affecting balance. Since you do not understand the possibilities of this improvement, I considered your theses to be crap.

More epeen list talk, great! /s.

You raid with the time that you're given, no, you play with the free time that you have. You choose what you play and how you play based on that time, and use it to just do that knowing that you can't have it all. This is how it's always been. You choose what to do with the time that you're given. You just want it all at once.