1. A few changes that can make Trinity a better guild:

    1. Know why you left Aurora: Many founding members were from Aurora. Aurora is known to be a good guild (progression wise), and because they are far ahead of the curve, they expect their members to be extremely proficient at the game. Trinity was formed to A) separate the raid times, and, B) to have a little more patience. In Aurora, if you make a mistake, don't know a fight well enough, pull low dps on a wipe, you get punished and bashed. Trinity was to be different. But little ways down the road, after our first few LOD, we became the impatient people we strayed from. Officers were angry at newer players for not knowing heroic fights thoroughly, every wipe has to have some sort of GP punishment, frequently bashing and being rude on chat/voice-chat. The most frequent thing to appear is "If you don't know this, why are you even in Trinity?". Well how about now? Everyone left and who are you going to raid with? Know your origin, know why you left Aurora, and know to not become those very individuals that made you leave.

    2. Loot distribution: I have to say that this may be a bit biased. Because every point system has its good/bad. But I think EPGP is really bad without a cap. I won't state any more opinions on this but I will tell you what happened. I want to take Bane, the guild leader, for example. The first era of Trinity 25hc, we saw his warlock frequently enter the raid. Bane had racked up a ton of EPGP priority and new members really could not compete for any gear. All the BIS trinkets, off-set pieces, marks, Bane's warlock had whatever he wanted. On our first LOD, he took Invincible without consulting anyone and said he deserved it. I think it's a little selfish, but OK, it's acceptable. Everyone knew the rules when they joined, so we'll just accept it as it is. But after Bane's warlock has had all this gear, what happens next raid? Bane brings his shadow priest. His EPGP was so far ahead that his shadow priest could get all the caster gear again. So casters who needed the same trinket needed to wait for yet ANOTHER drop, which may be a few more weeks. After his priest, then his paladin came, and the cycle continues. Now, there are times when the raid composition would be much better if bane brought another character. But most of the times that wasn't the case and IMO, he should bring his main, and I THINK that's his warlock? I'm not sure, but if you're going to take so much gear, then put it to use. And this is an example of why EPGP without a cap is bad, because people can abuse it this way. I'm not saying Bane intentionally is greedy, but it sure does seem like it.

    3. Guild Raid Times: Raids are said to start at 7:30 PST (8:30 on reset days). But if bane's running late, we're going to push it. And this is enough said. I specifically remember one time, where 24 people were standing in front of Marrowgar, and Bane was in some 10nm LK run. And the whole raid was supposed to just wait for him to finish. I don't blame Bane for this, because the guild allows it. To be honest, I don't even know why there were officers in Trinity.

    There are more things, but it's going to sound too much like a vengeful post. I appreciate the time spent with the guild, but I hope you guys can learn from your mistake. Because I know for a fact that the guild is going downhill. GL.


  2. 1. I've read what you've said thuroughly, and I believe maybe you weren't exactly informed on 100% of the matters. I'd like to state about the EPGP part that when I started bringing my shadow priest (Because we needed shadow priests) for the first 3 25HCs I made a point of not rolling on ANYTHING unless it was just trials/Alts rolling on sed items, I understand where it could look wrong yes, But I was trying to bring what we lacked.

    2. I feel a lot of this post directed @Bane in your words, I feel as though maybe you were mad at him (Me) for something so this is where you are posting about it, Or maybe multiple somethings.

    3. Going to your first post, Guilds over time are going to expect better of their members. As the guild progresses more regularly we are going to expect our members to **** up less, So yes, When someone does we will give more of a punishment than we used to give.

    4. If I was running late we started late due to the fact we didn't have officers wanting to Lead at the time, As we got into the later months of the guild this wasn't so much a factor and they would lead by themselves, The time we waited for me to do 10N Lich King was because we were ALSO waiting on 2 others to swap toons or we would have started (I remember this because you're not the first to give me ****)

    5. The invincables reins was already discussed to go to myself/Jonesy the first time it dropped for doing all the guild works prior to it dropping, If you missed out on this announcement it would have been because you were not in the previous ICC 25HC raids where we announced it to all, A few times

    6. Now <Trinity> is starting once again under Undertakerz/Magenificents ruling, He will bring a new feel to the guild and I hope you're there to experience it with him! I sorry that out of all flavours to choose you chose Salty.

  3. I'm not sure how you can explain the spriest thing. Because I was in the raid and I rolled need on EPGP. If what you said is true, you shouldn't have gotten a few loot over me.

    That wasn't directed at you. I quote myself, "I don't even know why there were officers in Trinity". It was directed at management as a whole. You stood out because you were the guild leader, hence, more responsibilities. Officers not wanting to/being able to lead raids is really weird.

    The mount was acceptable, I said that in my post. It just seemed selfish, but acceptable. I mainly wanted to focus on what happened afterwards.

    I'm glad Trinity is starting new, being one of the few NA guilds out there for alliance. The old way sucked, and there is no way to not be salty about it after change was denied time and time again. I know many people that stuck around to wait for change and brought things up with officers, but nothing really changed. Things are changing, and hopefully for the better. I'm glad to see that.

    BTW, I understand if you're *****ing at someone in a 25hc guild raid. But in a 10man, where people are either playing new classes or stepping into a 10hc the first time. Things may look easy on videos/threads, but experiencing a fight the first time is different. I remember distinctively you guys flaming a new prot paladin in a 10hc, and a priest in 10nm. There was also someone that raged on vent in a 10nm over a bql bite. I think these are really over reactions. Now I know it wasnt just you who raged, but officers collectively were like that. Especially seniors. Only one I see being calm is Itame (most of the time).
    Edited: January 9, 2016 Reason: edit for some spelling

  4. You shouldn't bring these kinda issues here. Trinity is a well established guild as far as i can tell. This page should be used as a platform to showcase yourselves in a positive manner. Aside from that, everything else in spoiler.
    Spoiler: Show

    A few changes that can make Trinity a better guild:

    1. Know why you left Aurora: Many founding members were from Aurora. Aurora is known to be a good guild (progression wise), and because they are far ahead of the curve, they expect their members to be extremely proficient at the game. Trinity was formed to A) separate the raid times, and, B) to have a little more patience. In Aurora, if you make a mistake, don't know a fight well enough, pull low dps on a wipe, you get punished and bashed. Trinity was to be different. But little ways down the road, after our first few LOD, we became the impatient people we strayed from. Officers were angry at newer players for not knowing heroic fights thoroughly, every wipe has to have some sort of GP punishment, frequently bashing and being rude on chat/voice-chat. The most frequent thing to appear is "If you don't know this, why are you even in Trinity?". Well how about now? Everyone left and who are you going to raid with? Know your origin, know why you left Aurora, and know to not become those very individuals that made you leave.
    Please don't misunderstand. Every guild goes through this phase. The phase where content becomes easy, players are comfortable, difficulty is not to be seen and ego runs around in everyone. What you say is absolutely undeniable and is true. We have to stick to the roots that made up the guild. That requires not just the leadership but the guild members efforts too. After all guild is a guild together with a functional leadership and eager n active players loyal to the cause.

    It is a fact that high end, seasoned players/leaders get pissed off when something goes wrong tactical wise. They criticize instead of helping. They punish severely instead of giving a chance to improve. This has been there in every guild which farms content. This can be only fixed by calmly finding out the problem, and fixing them. Most of the times a self observation and self improvement on everyone's part is what is necessary. Problem lies there. Solution too.

    A few changes that can make Trinity a better guild:
    2. Loot distribution: I have to say that this may be a bit biased. Because every point system has its good/bad. But I think EPGP is really bad without a cap. I won't state any more opinions on this but I will tell you what happened. I want to take Bane, the guild leader, for example. The first era of Trinity 25hc, we saw his warlock frequently enter the raid. Bane had racked up a ton of EPGP priority and new members really could not compete for any gear. All the BIS trinkets, off-set pieces, marks, Bane's warlock had whatever he wanted. On our first LOD, he took Invincible without consulting anyone and said he deserved it. I think it's a little selfish, but OK, it's acceptable. Everyone knew the rules when they joined, so we'll just accept it as it is. But after Bane's warlock has had all this gear, what happens next raid? Bane brings his shadow priest. His EPGP was so far ahead that his shadow priest could get all the caster gear again. So casters who needed the same trinket needed to wait for yet ANOTHER drop, which may be a few more weeks. After his priest, then his paladin came, and the cycle continues. Now, there are times when the raid composition would be much better if bane brought another character. But most of the times that wasn't the case and IMO, he should bring his main, and I THINK that's his warlock? I'm not sure, but if you're going to take so much gear, then put it to use. And this is an example of why EPGP without a cap is bad, because people can abuse it this way. I'm not saying Bane intentionally is greedy, but it sure does seem like it.
    I again agree with you on few points here. But i have to disagree on some.

    I agree that every system has a pro or con attached with it. But its not the system or addon that matters. These are just there to minimize the work you do. The secret and essence lies on how you implement it. EPGP is a very versatile system and by far the most effective one. It can be used in many different ways. It provides the backbone structure but its your/leaders duty to acknowledge it and improvise on it on how it will be implemented through out the guild without bias. It favors raiders and is a very good system for progressing guilds who need a system to evaluate the good and bad performance of their players.

    Now i dunno who this bane person is. But you took an example of him. So sorry bane, but lemme try to analyze this by again taking your name.
    You mention that this guy raked his PR. By this you mean to say he earned the PR and stacked it up by raiding with some other character which i would like to assume was good geared if not bis. I also assume Bane's warlock wasn't bis yet. So basically he brought his good geared character, earned PR for it, then bought his warlock and took all items. Was he decently geared on lock and do his job as a lock satisfactorily or just get carried? Assuming he did his job, he got rewarded with his effort. You cannot penalize a player with epgp just because he is already bis and wants to use that PR with some other character. He stacked up his PR. So what? He earned it right? Whether he earned it correctly or not is beyond the scope of this post.

    First Invincible going to GM is a very common thing in all guilds. Many times GM's feel its their right to win it and others don't feel so. But it's their personal opinion and i would not mind the first mount going to gm either. But then the guild should already support this. (Majority if not everyone)

    Now after warlock you mention priest. Let me clear this. If bane was bringing under performing characters, getting carried and taking all loots with his high PR, then thats ethically wrong. If he wasn't getting carried, if he was doing his job, then him getting the loots based on PR is justifiable. But the fact lies in whether his character was performing or not according to the respective raid.

    If bringing his main would have been better then he should have done it. But its hard to generalize it and say he didn't bring a better char for the comp. It is situational and who knows what happened. And i totally agree with you that the gear bought should be put to use.

    A few changes that can make Trinity a better guild:
    3. Guild Raid Times: Raids are said to start at 7:30 PST (8:30 on reset days). But if bane's running late, we're going to push it. And this is enough said. I specifically remember one time, where 24 people were standing in front of Marrowgar, and Bane was in some 10nm LK run. And the whole raid was supposed to just wait for him to finish. I don't blame Bane for this, because the guild allows it. To be honest, I don't even know why there were officers in Trinity.
    There are more things, but it's going to sound too much like a vengeful post. I appreciate the time spent with the guild, but I hope you guys can learn from your mistake. Because I know for a fact that the guild is going downhill. GL.
    If he was the only one leading raids and was crucial for the success of it, then i would understand it. The role of officers might be questioned at this period of time. But as i said most of the things are situational. Anything could have gone wrong. Only 25 people online. Or only 25 people eligible for raid. Or only he had the char to get the comp. You guys would know it better. Making 24 peeps wait on 1 player is not a thing that should be appreciated. But he shouldn't be criticized without knowing what really happened. Proper communication should have solved it.

    This is not entirely a vengeful post from you but it does seem a bit late. If you were so concerned about the guild, you should have taken it to the leaders right then and there when it happened. Its not going to make anything better now after you have left. Its not just about how the guild learns from this. Everyone can learn from it. Mistakes happen. Miscommunication and loss of vision can lead to failures. Dedication and loyalty and hard work should achieve you success under any guild banner or around any people.

    You took your time to post this here. I would like to believe that you did take this issue up with respective guild master before you posted it here. Anything and everything can be fixed if you want it to be fixed. What did "you" contribute to fixing this issue comes of essence.
    Edited: January 9, 2016

  5. Fkin selaya spammerlord


  6. I been out of the loop but is Bane no longer leading trinity or what?


  7. I was bored and read the tldr post, but I don't understand the failing at 10n part. I did LOD before I even did 25n icc..? All you do is move to the left or right and heal or hit stuff.

    Is wow hard for some people or something?

  8. Bane is a cool dude , always been nice to me idk why you guys so mad at him lol .
    He took some pixel hourse - big ****ing deal lol .

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