Reduce raid buffs for Ulduar and beyond.

[Chil]

Lot of Guild have the level to progress on Ulduar with a little nerf ( or up of enrage timer ? ) of some boss ( Thorim,...). Just few HARDCORE Guild can progress with the actually content. This guys is just scaring about more competitors ( but we're not men don't worry lol ).

A little nerf of the Hpool (20-30%) will make the majority of the Guild progressing on Ulduar happy.

Don't worry BIG GUILD you will have your first kill. But your trolling on topic just destroy the game of other people ( but you don't care lol ).

[Djdave]

You do know that Uld only been out for a few weeks, and you guys havent gotten the normal gear yet.
So go cry elsewhere.

[Ghastlie]

Well what else is there to say tell me ?

As has been stated previously in this thread, how many people leveling expecting a Blizz-like experience, who came here for the 1x rates and good scripting, are going to be disappointed with the end-game?

A vast majority of players here, like myself, have families and responsibilites outside of this game, and simply can't dedicate the hundreds of hours required to "get good". The retail experience allowed us to enjoy end-game content, which is why we came here.

Now, I'm not saying I agree with the whiners and *****ers - there's better ways to go about it - but by being the way you are, you're making yourself no better than those you're trying to shoot down.

[gad777x]

As has been stated previously in this thread, how many people leveling expecting a Blizz-like experience, who came here for the 1x rates and good scripting, are going to be disappointed with the end-game?

A vast majority of players here, like myself, have families and responsibilites outside of this game, and simply can't dedicate the hundreds of hours required to "get good". The retail experience allowed us to enjoy end-game content, which is why we came here.

Now, I'm not saying I agree with the whiners and *****ers - there's better ways to go about it - but by being the way you are, you're making yourself no better than those you're trying to shoot down.

You seem like a reasonable person so I'm gonna respond seriously. Thing is I completely understand you, However these nerfs that the less hardcore guilds require to down the bosses will come overtime. Like it was same story in nax , only few guilds could kill bosses but after 1 month nax got nerfed(even pugs clear it now). The problem is these "less hardcore guilds" think they are ENTITLED to being able to full clear Ulduar in the first week of release, and when they fail to do that they start crying on forums for a nerf. You see my point? Tell me I am wrong...

[Ghastlie]

You seem like a reasonable person so I'm gonna respond seriously. Thing is I completely understand you, However these nerfs that the less hardcore guilds require to down the bosses will come overtime. Like it was same story in nax , only few guilds could kill bosses but after 1 month nax got nerfed(even pugs clear it now). The problem is these "less hardcore guilds" think they are ENTITLED to being able to full clear Ulduar in the first week of release, and when they fail to do that they start crying on forums for a nerf. You see my point? Tell me I am wrong...

I must admit, I did not expect a reasonable response from you, so credit where it's due.

You make a very good point, and when put across reasonably, I find it hard to disagree with you. I guess the problem is that people expect the experience to match that of 3.3.5a retail which Proterean explained very well here: http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....=1#post2669527 (sorry, don't know how to properly hyperlink here...)

I also did not realise that Naxx got nerfed, which I can only assume will happen to Ulduar once ToC/ICC get released, just as they did on retail (I seem to remember?)

Having read your response here, along with Proterean's explanation, it makes a lot more sense to me now! Completely see your point, would find it hard to say you're wrong.

[gad777x]

Naxx got nerfed gradualy i would say every 2 weeks since release, so I'm expecting the same for ulduar. So lets say in 1-2 months more and more people will be able to clear it even with less gear. The thing is the developers are observing raids and are taking notes about what is hard and what is easy. The hard encounters they nerf , the easy ones they buff. It is an ongoing process and doesnt happen overnight. I always respond to reasonable people seriously. However I dont give the same benefit to self entitled crybabies.

[Ghastlie]

Don't feed the trolls, right?

From my time here and on Molten, it's clear to me the devs are not a bunch of *****s... It'll take me freakin' ages to hit 80 anyway, by which time 95% of the population will have cleared everything and moved on anyway, and Naxx will be 5-mannable no doubt :P

EDIT

Really, *****s is spam-filtered? How about fools?

[gad777x]

Honestly, for new players there is kind of an entry barrier . Because as progression goes further, smaller and smaller % of the population would do the entry level dungeons/raids. With that in mind, a tier7 with the current tuning would mean that all new players have to spend months on progression unless they have friends or a guild that is willing to carry them. As much as I enjoy the difficulty of the new content I also enjoy playing on a server with a good population and if new players are not given a fair chance to compete with the rest and enjoy current content that will be detrimental to the future of the server. The only solution could be lowering the difficulty of entry level content such as Naxxramas,eoe,OS so that new players are able to do it in heroics gear. However that seems to be unrealistic because it doesnt work well with Warmane's business plan - to sell items via the store. The harder entry level items are to obtain , the more justified the price on the shop would seem to people. You see where I'm going with this? I wont go further into detail because I dont want to get banned/post deleted etc.

[bloodshedsword]

No one would say that Lordaeron is so populated only because of x1 rates. or good scripting. or being popular (yes, 10k+ brings more new players than 3k realm).

Most players plays Lordaeron because they know, that they won't be able to one-shot all bosses and WILL struggle hard to gear up - what WILL take more time than usual. they WON'T become bored in like 6 months of playing (like on normal realm).

No offense, but If you don't know something, let me pop it back for you.
When lordaeron was released, it was advertised as "The most complete blizzlike realm", and not "the most complete hardcore realm".
But yea, things changed after population reached to 10k caps.

Honestly, for new players there is kind of an entry barrier . Because as progression goes further, smaller and smaller % of the population would do the entry level dungeons/raids. With that in mind, a tier7 with the current tuning would mean that all new players have to spend months on progression unless they have friends or a guild that is willing to carry them. As much as I enjoy the difficulty of the new content I also enjoy playing on a server with a good population and if new players are not given a fair chance to compete with the rest and enjoy current content that will be detrimental to the future of the server. The only solution could be lowering the difficulty of entry level content such as Naxxramas,eoe,OS so that new players are able to do it in heroics gear. However that seems to be unrealistic because it doesnt work well with Warmane's business plan - to sell items via the store. The harder entry level items are to obtain , the more justified the price on the shop would seem to people. You see where I'm going with this? I wont go further into detail because I dont want to get banned/post deleted etc.

Why else Blizzard launched Trial Of Champions with TOC ?
Why else were FOS, POS and HOR implemented with ICC out ?
Why were emblems changed to Conquest in all heroic dungeons after TOC launch ?
Why were emblems changed to Triumph in all heroic dungeons after ICC launch ?

Answer was simple as 'ABC' --- So that new players can compete with existing ones.
Just hope TOC dungeon and FOS. POS and HOR are not buffed as hell.

P.S. i have done FOS POS heroic on PTR on all 5 icc bis toons party, and we wiped because we made a mistake to mass pull mobs xD and it was wipe.
So yea, mistake on those dungeons will count for challenge, but i don't think those dungeons need to be buffed for real.

[Exerionn]

Ulduar 10 and 25 and why they shouldn't be buffed so much.

Ulduar is the greatest raid that Blizzard has ever released. Each boss is individual interesting has powerful mechanics and a way of making the fight harder in order to obtain better loot or achievements. In the current time bosses are too difficult for the average player or even a 'good' player to attempt hard modes. It is only the very best guilds which are capable of running hard-core mode bosses. This means that the general populace is stuck on normal, or with the heavily buffed Naxxramas they're stuck in Naxx.

Is it not much better in order to allow everyone to experience these raids and these hard modes the way the Blizzard intended them. With the 3.3.5 talent tree's I can understand it is easier and so in order to maintain the experience for the hard-core players a small buff to the raids may be needed where appropriate. 50-70% depending on boss fights seems more appropriate than 100-200%. 3.3k GS content is requiring 3.8k at the moment, you're not making the game any harder, you're making the game require more gear. Difficulty comes from a change in boss mechanics, in ulduars case they are already interesting and difficult. Adding a flat buff does not increase difficulty but instead increases frustration making the boss fight artificially difficult and gear dependent.

[mauroskavalaris]

Ulduar 10 and 25 and why they shouldn't be buffed so much.

Ulduar is the greatest raid that Blizzard has ever released. Each boss is individual interesting has powerful mechanics and a way of making the fight harder in order to obtain better loot or achievements. In the current time bosses are too difficult for the average player or even a 'good' player to attempt hard modes. It is only the very best guilds which are capable of running hard-core mode bosses. This means that the general populace is stuck on normal, or with the heavily buffed Naxxramas they're stuck in Naxx.

Is it not much better in order to allow everyone to experience these raids and these hard modes the way the Blizzard intended them. With the 3.3.5 talent tree's I can understand it is easier and so in order to maintain the experience for the hard-core players a small buff to the raids may be needed where appropriate. 50-70% depending on boss fights seems more appropriate than 100-200%. 3.3k GS content is requiring 3.8k at the moment, you're not making the game any harder, you're making the game require more gear. Difficulty comes from a change in boss mechanics, in ulduars case they are already interesting and difficult. Adding a flat buff does not increase difficulty but instead increases frustration making the boss fight artificially difficult and gear dependent.

This guy has said it all tbh thats exactly what I had in mind

[Greedman456]

Naxx got nerfed gradualy i would say every 2 weeks since release, so I'm expecting the same for ulduar. So lets say in 1-2 months more and more people will be able to clear it even with less gear. The thing is the developers are observing raids and are taking notes about what is hard and what is easy. The hard encounters they nerf , the easy ones they buff. It is an ongoing process and doesnt happen overnight. I always respond to reasonable people seriously. However I dont give the same benefit to self entitled crybabies.

Man dont sweat it. What you say is absolute crap. "TOP" guilds cleared naxx with the help of bug abusing(hol healing twice(LOLOLOLOL)) and then with the attained gear stroll here and say it was easy. The nerfs you are talking about are of the class of 10% which doesnt even compensate for the abuses you did to clear this content... As for ulduar you memories full cleared it almost the first day of release with the small buff, got the gear from it then you say ok now that it got buffed we can clear it again.... You have people at 4600 gs omg ofc it wont be that difficult.. Most guilds though even with naxx bis are at 4100-4200 and uld with that gear is fcked up after keepers(and hard modes are just outright ****).

P.S. you also got hard mode loot from council while it was bugged didnt you? So fck of with accusing people wanting a more enjoyable raiding experience cause these buffs dont add anything new to the game just make it a geargrind and healing fight.;..

[OutBlunted]

I dont understand why Warmane initially has impossible buffs on all the bosses, and we have to guess which boss has been nerfed every reset.

This has turned me off so much to even want to raid, because what we learned last week might be completely different this week regarding boss timing, enrages, HP pool, add damage, etc.
Seriously, its NOT "hardcore" when its literally impossible to complete boss fights given the current status. Thats literally just Warmane controlling how fast guilds progress.

All I want is consistency. Test your own dam raids or at least ask us to test them with whatever "buff" you're going to implement, and keep it that way.

[Attinain]

Pretty sorry Greedman456, but you are not making any sense.
While everyone is complainning about the difficulty in Ulduar, they seem to ignore the fact that Ulduar 10 is pretty easy, and bosses are nerfed nearly every week.
Xt hm was greatly nerf, Hodir too with the buffs, mimiron lost 30% of his Hp, Thorim too If I recall right. Vezax went from 74M to 57M.

I do get your point, ulduar is indeed quite hard, to the point where I personaly don't enjoy raiding at all ( a lot of hp does not make me want to do a fight, even a simple one ), yet I don't think you have the right to complain about gear.
It's been 4 or 5 weeks since ulduar is out, how many pieces of equipment one can get in this period ? A lot...
Even now, we keep on doing sartha/malygos to gear up some caster. You do NOT need 4600 gs to kill any boss in normal mode, you need 4200-4400 to FINISH ulduar 25man.

As much as I agree with you guys when you say ulduar is weird, I can't let you think you are suppose to kill ulduar with low gear, moderate amount of skill and no tryhard ( not calling names ).
There's only one thing pissing me off atm, it's the lack of news.
As OutBlunted said, we don't know which boss has been nerfed, we don't know how or when. Futhermore, some bosses are still not working properly. Doing the flame leviathan without the overcharge stunning and increasing the damage is stupid. Doable, yet stupid. ( Thanks for the non-239 loot btw ).

That being said:

Adding a flat buff does not increase difficulty but instead increases frustration making the boss fight artificially difficult and gear dependent.

I could not agree more.

[Derwin]

Yogg-Saron hp got reduced quite a big amount as well