Its ok i know what feedback is, but twoway communication is more of a reply to response we often get that sounds something like "we had those discussions before and we decided". majority didn't see those discussions and thats why majority is shocked and not pleased at all but kk.
I personaly know few people that i invited but got discouraged to do so since it wont be fair to them to invest 7x more time (ormore) for something i did easymode. I believe some hardcore nolife pve players gave their economy overview and ruined expirience for ... majority.
Im not trying to have an argument or anything liek that just to state its a mistake and i believe you will see results of it with time... dunno
Check loarderon icecrown population ratio, or ex ragnaros vs loarderon, numbers say it all
EDIT: :v
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Member
Edited: September 19, 2016 Reason: :V
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Member
Staff didn't read what they wanted to read. 80% or more people is against rep/prof lowering rates. That's why the feedback thread was closed. My chars have max profs and I got exalted/insane title. My best wishes to newcomers, those who you "want to benefit by making marketplace and grinding more challenging".
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Member
I usually think about servers' on its general, I don't need to lvl up proffs nor reputations, so I won't speak about what I want, or what I won't like, I just wonder how the heck, according to your (staff's) words, will x1 proffs and reps help new players? On a fast minded realm they will simply start doing PvP and PvE with lvl 138 greens unless you want to spend a lot of time raising two prefessions to 450 and grind x1 reputations to have few lvl 200 items, which are helpful for those who totally lack gear, especially on a server where the playerbase is based on donators and several other with high gs, but no, lets make lvl 200 items + some enchants harder to get than lvl 250+. I'm sorry but I really can't understand this. I mean it's possible, in a decade or two, but at least I won't expect as many players as we see/n farming those reps, so yeah I guess VP and coins are their only hope...
And keep in mind what are the common attitudes towards new players with low gs
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Member
Im for at least x2 profesions and x3rep
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Member
x1 everything will be funny
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Moderator
I'm not commenting on the decision, simply about the whole "they ignore feedback" thing.
If you decide to buy a car - which you know has a higher cost without any actual benefit, know will have a high maintenance cost because parts have to be imported, and which you will have trouble reselling later, but consider it still worth buying despite those factors - then ask your friends for feedback on your choice and all they point out as reasons for you to not buy are exactly the price, the maintenance cost and the difficulty in reselling... what are you going to do? Change your plan because of negative feedback you already had taken in consideration?
Asking for feedback is, as I already said, asking for new opinions and points of view that you might not have thought about and that might change your mind, not asking for people to make or change the decision for you. Feedback isn't some sort of "holy scripture" that has to be followed; it can be taken in consideration only partially or be dismissed for whatever reason.
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Member
Yes, it is not like you simply ignore the feedback but it's like feedback means nothing as you explained with your last paragraph. It sounds like feedback is discarded without consideration, even tho majority of the community has a problem with this. The response and example we got from you, sir, reminds me of pre-moltdown staff way of replying to threads. Please let's not go back that way again :/
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Moderator
Tell me more about how you stick to a single paragraph of a post more than double the size of that and reach a conclusion that contradicts the rest of the post.
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Member
Warmane in name, Molten in spirit.
Now serious. This wouldn't have happened if Staff wouldn't closed the main post. Many people felt like "shut up, Staff doesn't want your opinion". I don't know you but I prefer a single post with 50+ pages than 10+ thread with 20 each.
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Moderator
I can't tell the whole reasoning for the topic to have been locked, since I wasn't the one who did it.
I don't think the lock came from a Moderator, or, if so, was likely done under a request.
You have to admit, though, that the 10+ threads about it have at most added numbers, but no new arguments.
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Member
Well that was kind of expected, hence the ninjaing of pass posts and some of the feeds being deleted. Why delete history of a server that everyone has witnessed?
Then again this feedback issue defeats the purpose of what was told to us from before. I guess you cannot combat what a change you cannot control.
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Member
The thing is, even with everyone posting rants and raves... there are some people who are truly trying to suggest reasonable and optimal changes. Not just saying "OMGZ DO DIS MODS!" but giving cause/effect of decisions that will effect more than just the economy. I agree that gathering professions need a boost... I rarely find materials on the AH that are not insanely expensive... but that just tells me to go get that profession and farm mats and undercut the crazy prices to make huge profits. The thing is, unless a high level goes back to lower levels to farm mats, the current rates will never lend to leveling everything at once.
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Member
Even worse I think if a Moderator was requested to do so. More like "don't want to see people don't telling us what we wanted to read".
And maybe the "no new arguments" are because, in my opinion, makes no sense to lower the rates to help newbies. Many people posted, and almost all have the same opinion. Don't expect, if there are 100 users posting, to have 40 different opinions.
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Member
100 users posting? Maybe, i really didn't count how many users are really active in this matter. Because a lot of players are playing the game not even paying attention to website especially forums, but when changes take place, believe me there will be a hailstorm coming. I personally don't have much against these upcoming changes except the reputation changes (due to some bugged stuff). But the thing that bothers me most is this topic of changes incoming has brought so much attention like nothing else did. Meaning people care about what's gonna happen and are still commenting on it trying to say their arguments which are obvious and in place. You can't invent an argument when all of the valid arguments are given. The thing that bothers me most is staff reaction to all this 'storm'... but what can we do, right? The feedback will be listened or it will get discarded. Pfft please, what's the point of feedback than?
Basic arguments against changes are:
- Reputation is already hard due to some content not working
- Gold squish will keep the same buy power, nothing changed, just less numbers
- Prices MIGHT change in AH, sure you wont see 50K item due to gold squish, but you will see 25K item that will be on the same level of OPness as before
- Due to this knowledge of gold squish people will buy now, sell later in order to loose as less gold as possible
- Gold squish accomplishes very little when there is gold outside the game in circulation
Few i can remember to count right now...
Arguments for changes are:
- It will slow down the pace of the game, making it last longer
- More materials to work with
- Supply market becomes bigger, thus prices may go down
- Making it feel more "blizz" by slowing the pace but still keeping "fun" part in it by not changing exp (weird part because of profession/level progression has a huge gap in between, but we will see how it plays out)
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Moderator
That's not what I or anyone in the Staff said. Feedback will be listened to, it always is. But, yet again, it's feedback, not decision-making. After feedback is listened to, it can be accepted in full, accepted partially or dismissed - be it for being something that has been accounted for during planning or other reasons.
For the reasons you sum up against the change, even I, despite whatever my personal opinion might be, can provide counters:
"- Reputation is already hard due to some content not working": Proterean already stated that focus will be given so reputation content should be working before any changes or not long after;
"- Gold squish will keep the same buy power, nothing changed, just less numbers": if that's indeed a fact, there's little reason to have a negative reaction to it - if nothing will change, for good or for ill, it's a neutral result that shouldn't matter for anyone besides people with a thing for big numbers;
"- Prices MIGHT change in AH, sure you wont see 50K item due to gold squish, but you will see 25K item that will be on the same level of OPness as before": that depends more on the maturity of the market and how much people want to actually sell or simply keep something outside the market; if point #2 is a fact, this is again a neutral point that should only be seen as an issue if a huge amount of development resources were sidetracked to deal with it - that's not the case as far as I'm aware and more than likely it will be Edifice who will handle the cut;
"- Due to this knowledge of gold squish people will buy now, sell later in order to loose as less gold as possible": we gave forewarning of months ahead of time; was it because the Administration didn't see that happening or exactly to give people a chance for that?;
"- Gold squish accomplishes very little when there is gold outside the game in circulation": point #2 again, with different words; the gold sold outside the game still comes from players inside the game selling it; no gold is generated from nowhere, it just exchanges owner by the use of coins.
So, from your list of points against, none holds its ground, since they are all things that were accounted for before the plan was made public or not much of a point against, at most pointing out the effect will be a zero-sum game ("this will change nothing"). The only valid point here would be a variation of the first one - people being skeptical about the reputation-related content being fixed by the end of this month - but that isn't in your list or even a common complain in all the threads on the subject.
