Why is scamming a banable offence?

[Shiarta]

Why scamming is a bannable offense? Part of it is for the same reason as in real life: the world wouldn't be hospitable to people if it weren't punishable. You cuoldn't go to schools, there would be no doctors or hospitals who may come out convenient at times, there would be no organizations where you could work and earn your living etc etc. How could people get anything achieved in a dog-eat-dog situation? Only you asking such question proves that you are a social misfit, no offense intended.

In a game it should be punishable in particular because it would keep people away from the game, not to mention that parents wouldn't like their children on a game where they are misused. And it would cost the server real money if their good name gor ruined by getting known publically that such things are allowed.

Defending that "people should not be as stupid as to be scammed" is an excuse to justify injustifiable behaviour. You really have issues, mate. People have the right to be NOT scammed, rather than the right to be scammed.

Whom are you to tell people how "stupid" (which is merely in the eye of the beholder) they are or are not allowed to be? People have all the right in the world to be as stupid and as silly as they please to be. That is not up to you to decide for them.

Scamming is abuse. Until you yourself ever get abused, you are in no position to judge people for having an opinion about abusers. And if you ever do get abused then it will all fall in place and you won't need to ask again.

So please report your character names and realm, WolfCD. Then we can invite all players in that realm to make you feel you why it should be bannable.

[WolfCD]

Why scamming is a bannable offense? Part of it is for the same reason as in real life: the world wouldn't be hospitable to people if it weren't punishable. You cuoldn't go to schools, there would be no doctors or hospitals who may come out convenient at times, there would be no organizations where you could work and earn your living etc etc. How could people get anything achieved in a dog-eat-dog situation? Only you asking such question proves that you are a social misfit, no offense intended.

In a game it should be punishable in particular because it would keep people away from the game, not to mention that parents wouldn't like their children on a game where they are misused. And it would cost the server real money if their good name gor ruined by getting known publically that such things are allowed.

Defending that "people should not be as stupid as to be scammed" is an excuse to justify injustifiable behaviour. You really have issues, mate. People have the right to be NOT scammed, rather than the right to be scammed.

Whom are you to tell people how "stupid" (which is merely in the eye of the beholder) they are or are not allowed to be? People have all the right in the world to be as stupid and as silly as they please to be. That is not up to you to decide for them.

Scamming is abuse. Until you yourself ever get abused, you are in no position to judge people for having an opinion about abusers. And if you ever do get abused then it will all fall in place and you won't need to ask again.

So please report your character names and realm, WolfCD. Then we can invite all players in that realm to make you feel you why it should be bannable.

Wow, you sound quite mad.


Firstly, stop comparing it to RL, you regularly kill people in this game and are by all means a mass murderer in it.


Secondly, social order funtions very well without that order. It works by player (or person) reputation and relations, if in a dog eat dog world you hurt someone - their friends will **** you up and the other way around, and in a greater sense you being known to hurt people would make it that no one trust you ever again. Im not asking for scamming to go unpunished, just for it to go unpunished by "outside" rules (i.e GMs). It should fall to the community to make sure that people dont scamm by "burning" their characters if they do - i.e not trading with them, not playing with them, not helping them and so on and forth.

If someone scamms you the punishment should be that they are a known scammer and all ramifications the community can grant upon that person, not a ban. Its the same with ninjalooting, although at least on icecrown you level so fast and the rdf is enabled its almost impossible to screen for those people, so imo its fine there, the punishment should be (and often is, on other servers or on retail) that no one will ever play with that person again.


The sense of knowing people, and being able to trust people which usually is a fairly important part gets toned down a LOT by removing the ability of people to actually be bad. Someone not stealing your 200k gold is irrelevant right now, if they could have but didnt then you have found someone you can trust!


This idea of player reputation and player responsibility creates an actual community, it pays to know who you can trust and who is a thieving *******. If you can trust everyone theres no need at all to remember that one dude you could trust with a ****ton of mats for him to craft you something, if people like to steal there is. Thus an actual community is build. You remember that person, you might add that person and tell your friends about him. Other people will to and so on and forth.




Lastly, lets face it, its a game - a dog eat dog world is a lot more fun to game in then boring old real life where you can do nothing, right?

[Ghia]

I have been scammed once and it made me stop playing because of you asshats(scammers)

I was scammed when I first started playing WoW. Did I quit playing? NO, I looked at why and how I ALLOWED myself to be scammed and learned from it and moved on. That's right, you can NOT be scammed unless you ALLOW yourself to be. Feeling butthurt about it and blaming someone else for what you ALLOWED to happen to you and quitting is just immature. Man up, learn from your mistakes and make sure not to let it happen again.

I have played plenty of official games where scamming is in no way a bannable offense. It is left to the player to protect themselves from this happening, and it's actually a valuable life lesson. Irl if you ever get scammed, you can cry to the police about it but it may not be so easy to prove your case and get an arrest. The police don't have a log of events they can check where everything is written out like Warmane does.

Pretty much anyone who has been scammed can look back and see what THEY did wrong to ALLOW it to happen, only some people are so used to being coddled now that they just don't have the maturity to deal with it. The same people who need their little participation trophy so they never have to feel bad about losing at anything. Wise up kids, the real world is NOT like this!

[Zelda1220]

Lastly, lets face it, its a game - a dog eat dog world is a lot more fun to game in then boring old real life where you can do nothing, right?

I didn't want to take it down to personal level, but I bet you didn't have many friends when you were young.



Second time posting.

Edit:
P.S. For your information, it would have been fun if it were just bots / computers you were playing against. (i.e. Skyrim, Fallout) However, you are playing with real people. How about care a little about how they feel?

[Baleroc]

As the title said, why the hell is scamming a banable offence?

There are a lot of reasons why 'scamming' people is not fun, and offensive to a large majority of players - as clearly demonstrated in the posts.

Let me formulate a definition for scamming: cheat, and/or defraud someone. Yes - that includes cheating.

Scamming includes using cheating software, with illegal methods to modify, or change the game's data to intentionally deceive other players out of items. It is possible to modify the item's data, and change it. More specifically, you could place a copper bar into the trade box; have the cheat software disguise it as a vial of sands, then when the item is traded, the player receives a copper bar.

When 'scamming' is performed, it is not the same type of scamming you think it is. It is players performing illegal activities within the game. That is what is illegal, and offensive. Take the example below:

Suppose that we have two players, player A, and player B.

Player A has been playing the game for 5 years; plays in a guild, farms gold, plays the game fairly often during his time.
Player B, a fairly new player, cannot be bothered with the effort of playing the game, more so, would like to cheat, or scam other players.

Player B comes along and wants to sell an item worth 100k gold. Person A has been farming 100k gold to buy this item for 6 months.
Player B claims to sell an item worth 100k. Player A trades player B 100k gold and receives copper ore, instead of the 100k item. Hence, player A was scammed of 100k from player B.

Up to a year of work was wasted, and taken away from player A, by player B, who thought it was fun.

How would you feel if a player cheated you out of 100k gold through using cheat /hacking software?

Would you sit on your chair and say, "okay I have just been scammed out of 100k gold, but it's okay though. It was my fault - not the person who scammed me using hacking software - but my fault for not thinking the trade was unrealistic. "

I highly doubt you would - and if you did, you would be deluded. Instead, you would be straight up to customer support with screen shots, and videos, attempting to reclaim your gold back, or banning the player who scammed you.

Just because it has never happened to you, doesn't mean it should happen. Because one day - it will.

And when it does happen, you will be making another thread with the completely opposite approach.

[Skuddy]

Wow, you sound quite mad.


Firstly, stop comparing it to RL, you regularly kill people in this game and are by all means a mass murderer in it.


Secondly, social order funtions very well without that order. It works by player (or person) reputation and relations, if in a dog eat dog world you hurt someone - their friends will **** you up and the other way around, and in a greater sense you being known to hurt people would make it that no one trust you ever again. Im not asking for scamming to go unpunished, just for it to go unpunished by "outside" rules (i.e GMs). It should fall to the community to make sure that people dont scamm by "burning" their characters if they do - i.e not trading with them, not playing with them, not helping them and so on and forth.

If someone scamms you the punishment should be that they are a known scammer and all ramifications the community can grant upon that person, not a ban. Its the same with ninjalooting, although at least on icecrown you level so fast and the rdf is enabled its almost impossible to screen for those people, so imo its fine there, the punishment should be (and often is, on other servers or on retail) that no one will ever play with that person again.


The sense of knowing people, and being able to trust people which usually is a fairly important part gets toned down a LOT by removing the ability of people to actually be bad. Someone not stealing your 200k gold is irrelevant right now, if they could have but didnt then you have found someone you can trust!


This idea of player reputation and player responsibility creates an actual community, it pays to know who you can trust and who is a thieving *******. If you can trust everyone theres no need at all to remember that one dude you could trust with a ****ton of mats for him to craft you something, if people like to steal there is. Thus an actual community is build. You remember that person, you might add that person and tell your friends about him. Other people will to and so on and forth.




Lastly, lets face it, its a game - a dog eat dog world is a lot more fun to game in then boring old real life where you can do nothing, right?

on a 1x server with no name changes that might work. however on a 7x server with faction/race/name change all available for free points, and 7x xp rates it's all to easy to change your identity after you scam. plus you can scam on 1 toon, mail it to another, and no one would know who you are.

i don't necessarily agree with scams being bannable, as i do believe that you should learn things on your own. but for the above reasons i believe warmanes doing the best they can.

[tadpole]

this guy is an *****, in real life he will get whats coming,if he realy thinks this way.

[Handepsilon]

I think I will give up and just let the people who has the actual answer (a.k.a the staff), post here

If they're willing of course

EDIT

Oh I think I've found some tidbits of the reason : http://forum.warmane.com/showthread....=1#post2651922

[Turbolqk]

@OP easy stuff. Cause ur not a politician.

On a serious note, cause the ppl with the power made it so, and you got no power to resist it.
Wether its right or not, its all a pov really. Just as you think youre right, so you seem mad to the others here. Fact is, warmane has some priorities, rules help them cover what they need. In this case its allowing the people have some justice for the scammers, which in turn makes those people happy with the server and keep them playing here.

[ricsi046]

you can stop crying,luckily not everyone has mental problems and is a f****** ******* like you,so you might just leave wow and go back to eve or wherever you came from and show them how smart you are
or i have a better idea,why don't you just start scamming your brother,parents or friends?Kinda doubtful that you have any friend though.

[WolfCD]

There are a lot of reasons why 'scamming' people is not fun, and offensive to a large majority of players - as clearly demonstrated in the posts.

Let me formulate a definition for scamming: cheat, and/or defraud someone. Yes - that includes cheating.

Scamming includes using cheating software, with illegal methods to modify, or change the game's data to intentionally deceive other players out of items. It is possible to modify the item's data, and change it. More specifically, you could place a copper bar into the trade box; have the cheat software disguise it as a vial of sands, then when the item is traded, the player receives a copper bar.

When 'scamming' is performed, it is not the same type of scamming you think it is. It is players performing illegal activities within the game. That is what is illegal, and offensive. Take the example below:

Suppose that we have two players, player A, and player B.

Player A has been playing the game for 5 years; plays in a guild, farms gold, plays the game fairly often during his time.
Player B, a fairly new player, cannot be bothered with the effort of playing the game, more so, would like to cheat, or scam other players.

Player B comes along and wants to sell an item worth 100k gold. Person A has been farming 100k gold to buy this item for 6 months.
Player B claims to sell an item worth 100k. Player A trades player B 100k gold and receives copper ore, instead of the 100k item. Hence, player A was scammed of 100k from player B.

Up to a year of work was wasted, and taken away from player A, by player B, who thought it was fun.

How would you feel if a player cheated you out of 100k gold through using cheat /hacking software?

Would you sit on your chair and say, "okay I have just been scammed out of 100k gold, but it's okay though. It was my fault - not the person who scammed me using hacking software - but my fault for not thinking the trade was unrealistic. "

I highly doubt you would - and if you did, you would be deluded. Instead, you would be straight up to customer support with screen shots, and videos, attempting to reclaim your gold back, or banning the player who scammed you.

Just because it has never happened to you, doesn't mean it should happen. Because one day - it will.

And when it does happen, you will be making another thread with the completely opposite approach.

Obviously if cheating, as in hacking or using illegal software or exploits are going on then banning is reasonable. But if i tell you i have the item you want on a different char but need the gold first, have a similar sounding item that i trade you, or use any other non exploit in game mechanics to trick you and you lose that 100k gold and 1 years worth of work - then by all means thats your fault.

[WolfCD]

on a 1x server with no name changes that might work. however on a 7x server with faction/race/name change all available for free points, and 7x xp rates it's all to easy to change your identity after you scam. plus you can scam on 1 toon, mail it to another, and no one would know who you are.

i don't necessarily agree with scams being bannable, as i do believe that you should learn things on your own. but for the above reasons i believe warmanes doing the best they can.

There comes the "idi0t" part into play, if you trade you valuable stuff to a lvl 1 toon you really should have known better.

[WolfCD]

I didn't want to take it down to personal level, but I bet you didn't have many friends when you were young.



Second time posting.

Edit:
P.S. For your information, it would have been fun if it were just bots / computers you were playing against. (i.e. Skyrim, Fallout) However, you are playing with real people. How about care a little about how they feel?

Lol, how do you think someone you corpsecamp feels in this game? How do you think the guy feels who missed invincible by 1 on the roll? Caring about other people in a pvp game is as such nothing to concern yourself about. Im not condoning stealing or similar irl, but within the game rules (as in the real game, not GM rules) its perfectly fine. And the "what others feel about it" is not an argument, its morally wrong to scam sure. But it isnt illegal (or well, shouldnt be illegal) as such.

And no, it wouldnt be fun at all if it were just bots or computers, there is no challenge in that. Scamming is a form of pvp, market pvp to be exact (just as auction house trading, you make profit of other people and you compete against others), as such it requires other players.



Also, just because apparently people here cant read - i dont scamm (here, or in any other game). I just think it enriches the gaming experience if scamming is allowed.

[Obnoxious]

Lol, how do you think someone you corpsecamp feels in this game?

That is, in fact, part of the game in a PvP server. It's supposedly part of the "fun" you accept/tolerate might happen when you join that kind of server.

How do you think the guy feels who missed invincible by 1 on the roll?

That's just a matter of luck or lack of it, which is also part of the game, without involving any malicious intent from someone else.

Scamming is a form of pvp, market pvp to be exact (just as auction house trading, you make profit of other people and you compete against others), as such it requires other players.

No, there's no "market PvP" involved in misleading someone to trick them out of their money. If you were to talk about playing the Auction House, undercutting and so on you could use "market PvP," but not on this.

But it isnt illegal (or well, shouldnt be illegal) as such.

It is illegal, even in real life - the proper term for scamming is "fraud." Ever heard of it? Does it still sounds legal or like something that should be legal when called fraud? Most of the scamming that happens in game also isn't even based on lying, but on abusing the UI to deliver wrong products and the like. Are you going to say that exploiting should be "legal" too?

[WolfCD]

In a game! where you can kill people talking about legality irl is BS, im sorry but it is. If its not an exploit and it doesnt concern the eula then in game its legal. Forbidding it are custom rules.


And no, im not saying exploiting should be legal, but if i tell someone that for 100k gold, up front, ill bost him to 2.7k (just an example) but i just take the gold and dont deliver then that should not be worth a ban.