Oh poor GM we just lost vs alliance even tho we had 3 tenacity in WG. Please save us from alliance premade abusers?! Why I don't see hordes crying in this forum?
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Just to clarify to everyone the preform AV enabler addon existed in retail over 15 years ago. Isn't even a necessary addon as you can just queue on a pull timer. It was very common for large groups to queue in AV to blitz the boss and farm honor. There's an actual achievement for it. Also common to farm HK in Isle. That's why this suggestion is silly because you have players here claiming they're veterans saying this is some new problem and asking for something that has always existed to be limited or removed. You haven't played the same game I have clearly. Premades stomping players has always existed on every version of this game and they're honestly a lot of fun.
Now let's talk about what you're actually upset about. Graveyard camping. The only tangible suggestions were putting immunity on graveyards and adding honorless target. Guess what? They just camp outside the aura of immunity and they actually don't care about getting credit for honorable kills. If they did they would just wait for the buff to fall off and then kill you.
There's a concept in this game that you are all missing. Blizzard designed this game for players to interact. It's a social game. It wasn't meant for a single player to go attack NPC units and never talk to anyone. There are other games you can do that. Ganking and corpse camping are allowed because it forces players to group up and talk to each other if they want to win. And it's no different here. The solution by design is to find players to help you. That's why it was never changed. If you want to be anti-social and play alone then don't complain if you get steamrolled by players who played the game the way it was meant to be played. That's why Warmane and Blizzard won't step in because this is the game.
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It’s just gamification — we’ve been playing this expansion since the Stone Age. In 2012, you could still see an Enhancement Shaman - Combat Rogue at high rating. Now, it’s a good day if you face anything other than (S)PR or Wopal at negative MMR. The same applies to battlegrounds.
The issue doesn’t need fixing, but let’s admit it’s worse than ever — both in frequency and severity. I could give a long-form explanation and propose solutions (as I’ve done before), but those usually get skimmed, misread, and dismissed — often by people who’ve queued maybe four battlegrounds in the last eight years. Not worth the migraine.
In short:
The current AV/IoC HK farming tactics (IoC specifically, also these groups are not 40m premades btw) are the arena equivalent of running double resilience-stacked Holy Paladins in 2s. It’s a ‘valid’ strategy on paper, but when common, it breaks the spirit of the game — and player enjoyment with it. (Waste your time or just leave and give us the win)
Ultimately, this is a server policy issue. Telling every player to “just make a group” misses the point (ignorant is more accurate). I get the ‘where does it end’ argument against intervening, but reputational risk tends to snowball into all other problems.
Again, a minimal-change 'fix': make a permanent EotS/AB rotation call to arms (all others can be turned into a hostage situation aka get farmed till we end it or eat the 15 minutes). That way, HK farming aligns with actually (properly) speeding up the battleground (since capping bases is required to push the enemy to a single GY). Overstacking or stampeding (farming without capping) increases the odds that the ‘farmed’ team wins significantly. Therefore, it indirectly 'helps' both players who want a daily win and those who can’t stay stuck in AV/IoC/Deserter due to limited playing time (Not held hostage + faster CtA queue). The other side can still premade and chug as many free action potions as they want.
In my opinion, the status quo is manageable — it’s the trajectory that isn’t.
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The explanation of the facts is shareable, hardly anyone could think the opposite but certainly someone is there, but the last sentence seems to me a somewhat bizarre statement.
How can the status quo be manageable, when the trajectory itself negatively affects it?
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When I say status quo, I’m talking strictly about the current state — not where things are heading. That’s the key distinction I’m making, though I get that others might define it differently.
Personally, I still find it tolerable. The HK farming culture hasn’t crossed that line for me yet — the one where I’d say “I’m out, new server time.” But I know that threshold is different for everyone.
You can think of it like a time series: we’re all watching the same curve, but each of us has a different point where we bail/complain. For some, that threshold’s already been breached — you can see it in the uptick in forum complaints.
That part — the direction things are heading — is what I refer to as the trajectory or trend. But again, that’s a matter of definitions.
I was already making a graph for work, so I asked GPT to generate a trivial one for this — just for fun. Enjoy. (This is not a serious graph, purely trivial)
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It isn't a trend that progressively gets worse. WoW players actually create traditions like the five monkeys experiment. You'll notice if you play ICC that everyone stacks on BQL now. They all stack on Marrowgar. They don't know how to do phase 2 Sindy when they have low dps. That's because most players these days joined a raid and saw it done that way so they think that's how it has to be done.
In PvP when you have new players join on a server they will follow the group. On some servers in AV everyone might rush snowfall, other servers might rush mini boss, others might run to meet the enemy in field of strife. The tradition gets created. Players go to the graveyard and get yelled at for capping it. That's a tradition. So the behaviors you see that you might not like are not actually because players want honorable kills, it is because monkey see monkey do. 25 monkeys are doing it because they learned it that way so the other 15 will do it too.Edited: 1 Week Ago
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I'm a bit confused—you say it's not a trend, yet you go on to describe a pattern that could very well result in that exact trend. (correct me if I’m wrong)
"Trend" is just an abstract label we use to describe observable (directional) patterns; it doesn't imply causation on its own. You introduced a cause—your “monkey see, monkey do” theory—which, by your own reasoning, supports the growing trend. A growing number of people adopting a certain behavior can influence even more to follow suit, especially if there's no clear exit condition. That, by definition, is how a trend forms.
In my experience, when it comes to this topic, it's best to avoid diving into causation. Those discussions often lead to suggestions that feel too intrusive or overreaching for the staff. As I mentioned earlier:
Keeping it abstract or even surface level helps us find common ground and, from there, achievable solutions.
I'm going to leave it here—I just came to make a brief point and offer a suggestion, not to dive too deep into the topic (for the 50th time). Appreciate the interest and discussion though, keep it up!
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When I say it's not a trend that gets progressively worse, that's what I mean. Ignoring whatever otherworldly tangent you just went on lol. In five years HK farming won't be worse. That was all your claim. In gaming terms what I'm saying is described as a meta. Players developed these strategies. And that's it. Maybe in five years they find a new strategy, maybe they won't. Which means your claim of this threshold and players fleeing the server increasingly would be false.
I think the real fact is that players who perform poorly and get frustrated are the loudest. Those are the players running to the forums and whining. A very small fragment of players I would add. It isn't a shared opinion by everyone otherwise PvP would be dead. I've noticed no decrease in activity.
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Why exactly 40 people? 10 players are enough, one experienced leader who coordinates the whole raid and shouts in the chat where to go and what to do.
And on topic, for those who didn't understand
Premade is an organized group or raids, most often with an experienced leader.
In a premade, players are well dressed, and not recruited randomly from the chat. They are motivated and did not come here to sit in an alt-tab reading the forum.
Premades ruin experience and waste time of the enemy faction, as random players cannot counter them. Most often, randoms cannot be united and work as a team. I don't see the point in correcting premades or trying to remake them, because if a premade plays against a premade, the meaning of the premade will be lost. I'm talking about putting them in a separate queue.
So the question is, if you get against a premade, what's the point of playing if you're a random player. This is more of a question for the game developer, when he conceived this.
Yes, I once suggested a solution to the game developer to prohibit raiding on battlefields. Many people supported me then, they implemented it later, but premades still remained.
P.S. I just went to the stream of one premade leader with experience, they all ran together and win easy.
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Maybe we should find a time machine and go back 20 years to ask Blizzard.
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Your argument, that a group of 10 well-geared, motivated, and coordinated players shouldn't win against 40 unmotivated and uncoordinated players who have alt-tabbed out, is so bad that I have to wonder if it was made in good faith.
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Using addons to que 5-5 x8 groups and login on opposite faction with rat characters to cap graveyards without getting attacked in south of AV at their base, then calling go in all now is wild + using 1-2x5 group of multiboxers usually DK-s, whos running in spirit form getting afk reported from that rat characters logged on opposite faction.
But more wild is that devs thinks that's OK
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Queuing on a pull timer doesn’t guarantee that everyone will end up in the same battleground.
AVEnabler allows you to see the battleground instance ID for each player who got popup, so you can verify whether the entire raid got the same ID.
If they did—bingo! You’ve got a 40-man premade.
If someone gets a different ID, it means they were matchmade into a different battleground. In that case, everyone can decline to enter and try again later until the whole group gets the same ID.
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Forum Veteran
Why do you guys keep bringing up av enabler, when you do not need it to queue together, and you definitely do not need it for av or ioc?
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Ok, you have provided a more than detailed explanation on the argument, the same for the others.When I say status quo, I’m talking strictly about the current state — not where things are heading. That’s the key distinction I’m making, though I get that others might define it differently.
Personally, I still find it tolerable. The HK farming culture hasn’t crossed that line for me yet — the one where I’d say “I’m out, new server time.” But I know that threshold is different for everyone.
You can think of it like a time series: we’re all watching the same curve, but each of us has a different point where we bail/complain. For some, that threshold’s already been breached — you can see it in the uptick in forum complaints.
That part — the direction things are heading — is what I refer to as the trajectory or trend. But again, that’s a matter of definitions.
I was already making a graph for work, so I asked GPT to generate a trivial one for this — just for fun. Enjoy. (This is not a serious graph, purely trivial)
It's a way of being of the people, their way of playing and therefore a personal method with which they have fun.
Whether it's wrong or bad habits or whatever you want, there's no remedy for it.
Despite this, I think that, unfortunately, developers or anyone else can't do anything about it. Unless they decide to do something that blocks or limits these "habits", but in this way I think it distorts the nature of the game as it was made.
Maybe it's something Blizz itself should have thought about a long time ago, or they thought about it but chose to leave everything as it is.
The same thing happens in current and previous patches, it's a constant.
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