Petition to boost Phase 2 raids a bit

[AeroPhd]

You are right, this realm was not advertisized as hardcore, but its a unique seasonal realm it should offer something different than walkthru raids, atleast raids in their original pre-nerf form. Id argue that if the raid is basically walk in the park which will be prior to icc hc no buff (and even that doesnt have high req check lordaeron) the feeling u get from clearing the content will be mild compared to not clearing it while actually trying to (actual progression).

It offered Vanila->TBC->WotLK content as 'something unique'. That was the idea of Onyxia realm.

If people are fed up by 'not being able to progress hard content' on a 20 year old game where all progress has been done billions of times - maybe this content isn't for them, and they should find something else to play, that caters to their liking? Noone is forcing them to play on an 'easy' realm...

[Linkoyn]

I don't think you can be taken seriously with any of those claims. You're discrediting the effort of downing Yogg 0 lights on the first day. That is no simple feat. Saying Illidan is a free kill with no mechanic or thought in green gear tells me you got carried and weren't there progressing it. Then saying no buff ICC doesn't have a high requirement on a progression realm. That's delusional.

Your memory failed you. The previous seasonal server was buffed content. Where it was so pug level and nerfed for you though I guess you must just be too good for this content. Too easy so I guess it's time for you to quit again. Bummer I really looked forward to more paragraphs of whining.

You are right my memory failed me! To think that the previous seasonal was buffed content is hilarious if it was true because noone noticed it as such, and the claim that ICC no buff doesnt have high req is actually false only if u look at it from 2009 prespective, the raid is just about right with the exception of maybe 1 fight to progress as casual guild. Now i will again insert lordaeron and its past ICC buffs (not current ones) while it had its own bugs the buffs far surpassed any positive effects and only 2 fights proved to be hard one of which tuned to the extreme, point here is that ICC no buff will be ok, nerfed ulduar will not be ok.
I think we got different definition of casual. My definition is 1 to 2 chars max, with 2 raid days per week each 2-3h duration on average totalling 5-6 hours of raid time on 1 char for 7 days, and such guild clears ICC no buff without issues within 2 to 3 months (very casual new guild no continuations some weeks) in a chilled enviorment without too many min/maxxers or "elitists" just ppl that strive to play for every ID because they feel like that could be the ID they clear it. Just a 95% stable roster that is still improving in individual lvl.
Your definition seems to be playing 10 chars 8 hours a day, farming raids untill bis in preparation of the "big hard raid " that never comes. Every raid has to be on farm so the said "casual" class can gear up their multiple toons or else the game is not enjoyable and too hardcore. Apparently 50%+ of guilds clearing content within the first few IDs also seems mandatory in that definition.

You said warmane skill lvl is not that high yet classic era world firsts are filled with private server players for a reason, they simply had so much practice over nearly 20 years of privates.

Wanted to add that its clear even on the lower difficulty raids ppl still make "proper" raid comps and require character min maxing. For example its hard to get into raid with holy priest because everyone demands disc yet there is 0 dmg on this content. So the requirements are as if the raid is hard but in reality its not, it will be the same case for ulduar albeit not as easy as phase 1 but again ppl will require unreasonable amount of preperation or raid comp only to see that u dont need any of that because the raid is giga nerfed.
Basically ppl are making raid comps based on ICC progression, proper itemization, professions overall min maxing by getting 5sp upgrade instead of not giving a fuk cuz it doesnt matter but are raiding content that doesnt make sense to be so specific.
You just cant get away from min/maxing on this old game regardless if u call the server "casual" ppl have learned all that there is and everything is far easier than in 2008-9 but yet we want NERFED content in the case of Ulduar.

[jmsvanbuskirk]

Mmmm no you just have a different definition of fun. Not everyone needs challenge in a game to enjoy it. Like me personally I don't find pre-nerf Ulduar or Lordaeron or no buff ICC to be challenging at all. I've played through the content a million times.

Yet I have really enjoyed the past couple years on Onyxia. A casual pace is really nice and a chill vibe with some cool people. I really liked getting to experience all three expansions on a private server with quality of life changes and the shop. And I don't raid log, I spend a lot of time in PvP and chasing achievements and lore. I just love the game itself.

I see no reason to continue this conversation as you haven't given any strong reasons to change the direction of the server, only assumptions. This thread has been made several times with no effect in the past and despite what you might think it hasn't slowed down at all. Difficulty has a ceiling and according to what you're saying if you are so experienced at this game and only enjoy it when it's difficult then I really don't know why you're here. You shouldn't find any content challenging. There are other games you can go play to get that fix.

[Linkoyn]

Well clearly different definitions of difficult too. For you it seems spending 3+ IDs to clear absolutely everything = difficult and time consuming def not casual.
The content stays available for months, even the 30 sec nax bosses are out for 2 months ?
The raiding doesnt interefere with you chasing achievements doing pvp or meeting cool ppl. Why ? Because u do it anyway.
The raids dont have to be a challenge for everyone on individual level. Its about the feeling u get when u progress thru it with group of people that u bond with and that is just nonexistent when the raid doesnt require you to even play in a guild. Raiding is a group challenge not a group chore.
The loot simply becomes meaningless because it has no practical use.

Ive actually given plenty of reasons, its you who keeps repeating "server is casual " while most likely playing on your 7th character in some of those "semi-hardcore" guilds that run 10 raids a week.

None of the perks of freeloot / easy content are experienced by the players, the requirements to enter a raid are still there, raids are still class specific, low performance is still shunned, guilds still use attendence based system to distribute gear and u still raid multiple times a week from start till the end. So why not actually make the raid matter more like a pre-nerf ulduar would, since you are already attending scheduled raids from end to end. There is no sense for progression even for new players and it will stay like that untill no buff ICC.

[jmsvanbuskirk]

It would be the people that run this server who repeatedly stated the server caters to casuals. They set the game at retail values. I don't believe that was ever actually up for discussion, but it's entertaining watching you try and fail like all the rest of them.

[Linkoyn]

You know what? you are right! idk what i was thinking when i first started this topic. I never considered tthered be opposition to my proposal i actually thought everyone would like that but u surprised me and thats why i engaged in our little discussion. I forgot that this is a community after all and after years and years its normal for the realm to be tailored for their specific demographic.

Thank you for being the voice of that community!
I wish you best of luck!

[absoalt]

You are wasting your breath in my opinion. It's obvious they will not do anything like implementing pre-nerf ulduar. Hell, it took them 2 weeks to give players who were missing the Naxx10 achiv drake, so reverting the state of the bosses is out of question. The realm is "casual". As funny as that sounds since people are asking 3.8+ for Naxx25. Just enjoy the patch with your friends, and don't interact with the community.

[rajputmanj]

I played on a server where Death Demise and Celestial Defender was not completed in first few weeks. content was hard yes but everyone was able to do hard modes where applicable including yogg 1light- players farmed content to clear RF and the once RF were taken they nerfed some bosses so others could enjoy the rest of the content. IDK for some reason RF on warmane is cakewalk in the park--- NAxx was done under 2hrs----- frostmourne season 1 ulduar RFs was 1-2weeks-- frostmourne season 2 ulduar RFs was 2days and frostmourne season 3 ulduar RFs was few hours.. so the content was gradually nerfed every year or am i mistaken?

[Linkoyn]

Yeah, well… the community here has changed. They prefer multiple characters, high raid entry requirements, specific raid compositions, and that’s on top of all the information accumulated over the past 20 years, highly customized addons, etc., etc.—and that’s for old, out of tune and in some cases (ulduar) nerfed content.

People go around crying about their BiS on content that doesn’t even matter. Hell, even the un-nerfed content doesn’t require BiS or anything as a prerequisite to SPEED run it..Basically, people act like character development and itemization matter as if they’re progressing something , but that’s simply not the case—unless all the content is boosted AF.

Quite disappointing, but it is what it is… Dead guilds, GDKP runs—all because the content doesn’t matter, yet for some reason people believe the improvements they make will be necessary or will matter for the next patch.

I guess people simply love overgearing and stomping on stuff. Must be a side effect of 15 years of 30% ICC.

[Mikeytheclass]

Will love to see all these "buff ulduar" people clear ulduar first week :D

[rajputmanj]

10 locks 1hunt 2-3sp 1boomy 3-4udk--- 1-2 retris- 1feral/rogue-- ya u can in one day :D these classes are power setup to execute boombang hm bosses. though if boss HP is increased and some buff tuning on mechanism--- it would really bring down a good competition.. and when in competition there alot of good viewers and hype for a longer period of time. if personally love to see the rf race last abit longer than a week- the hype is just crazy even though im not going in one. just the whole server is on the feet fighting for it.

[morfagor]

Here's your problem. If content is too difficult then casuals will never experience the content. They never get to see Algalon. So many hours of dying players get fed up and leave.

On the other hand with a 17 year old game and a group of experienced players there actually is no such thing as a challenge without introducing custom values that would far surpass a casual player's abilities.

Each phase you're getting like 12 lockouts? In that time frame you can't say you're catering to casuals when you're boosting values to impossible levels for them to do anything just to make a smaller group of no lifers delay their boredom by a couple weeks.

Realistically, just do prenerf Ulduar (that's still easy to get done) and 3 weeks into it just start nerfing the fights. The whole point of having a seasonal server is progression, since it's a 18 y/o game and people got more information/better over time it does require some tuning to keep the feeling of progression alive.

Prenerf ulduar will be a challenge for decent guilds, then post nerf ulduar will be a challenge for pugs and casuals.

The only raid that does not need extra tuning is ICC on this expansion to progress.

I personally didn't even bother making a character to do naxx fights that last the same as a dungeon boss. You need to find something in between.

[morfagor]

Incorrect, the difficulty spike between Naxx and Ulduar is massive. The average guild will not be walking into Ulduar and getting free loot. And very very few guilds will be walking into Ulduar clearing hard modes with T7 level gear in the first week.

Experience doesn't mean much. You're with a new group and you're going to have to learn how to navigate and progress Ulduar all over again. You don't get to dictate how well the guy next to you heals or how well Bob can execute a mechanic.

It's massive when naxx is not buffed but considering it currently has the same difficulty of a dungeon boss is comparable to being used to jump a 20 cm box and having to jump over a 40 cm box, it's a huge step but the initial level was so easy that it does not mean the 2nd is gonna be hard, just harder in comparison to that.

Post nerf Ulduar is a quite easy, maybe the only challenging fight would be Algalon solely because of tank damage.

I see no downside keeping the feeling of ''progression'' alive for more people longer in time, that's the whole point of a ''progressive'' server, not farming the content on week 1.

[morfagor]

Like I said Naxx was always easy. It wasn't buffed here like it usually is so even more so.

Progression will come down to math though. Starting this phase at around 3.5k prebis gear the average groups weren't clearing OS 3 drake. It took some weeks because there's a dps/healing requirement. You can clear it first week, but you need a proper raid composition and an above average group of players.

You take that concept into Ulduar and you face an even tighter dps/heal requirement at many points. Healing in particular is really stressful. You also get the introduction of more personal responsibility tactics and intensive raid wide damage. Players will be introduced to new scenarios every pull and deaths will make it difficult to complete the fights.

Mimiron hard mode and Yogg 0 Lights are near the top of the list for challenging encounters in Wotlk. You can make a pug group on Icecrown today of full 6k+ gs players and watch them wipe on those fights numerous times just cause it takes several wipes to even figure it out for people. But here in progression on top of that you're facing keeping enough people alive to even be able to kill the boss at all. If you even have enough total healing and damage in the first place.

Ulduar slows down with players actually because you need a guild to really fully progress it. This pug party you see happening with Phase 1 raids are not so easy to pull off in Ulduar content. Normal modes may be more accessible, but hard modes and heroic content moving forward will require a tighter coordinated and well geared group. So you should be looking forward to that. Ulduar regardless of difficulty is in many people's opinion the best raid Blizzard ever released. It's a lot of fun.

You have legit 0 dps/healing requirements outside hm Hodir, HM IC, and (maybe) Thorim. Not even Algalon is a dps check in a post nerf version (34m HP and 6 min enrage is not tight at all)

nobody is gonna do ys0 outside people going for RF (and I do have the information it's extremely easy since it dies right around 2nd beacon on T7 gear, which means the hardest part which is taunting 5 beacons out is neglected). Mimiron? Just run 7 healers, you got a 10 minute enrage timer.

Once people figures out the fights (we're in 2026, there's information EVERYWHERE unlike 2009, they should already know or worst case they'll figure out after week 1) it's just content on farm.

[morfagor]

I don't think you can be taken seriously with any of those claims. You're discrediting the effort of downing Yogg 0 lights on the first day. That is no simple feat. Saying Illidan is a free kill with no mechanic or thought in green gear tells me you got carried and weren't there progressing it. Then saying no buff ICC doesn't have a high requirement on a progression realm. That's delusional.

Your memory failed you. The previous seasonal server was buffed content. Where it was so pug level and nerfed for you though I guess you must just be too good for this content. Too easy so I guess it's time for you to quit again. Bummer I really looked forward to more paragraphs of whining.

It legit is a simple feat to any guild preparing for RF on current content tuning. It's hard content to any casual guild but as stated not a single guild struggling on content will bother doing ys0 when ys1 gives the same loot.