Why is scamming a banable offence?

[Obnoxious]

In a game! where you can kill people talking about legality irl is BS, im sorry but it is. If its not an exploit and it doesnt concern the eula then in game its legal. Forbidding it are custom rules.


And no, im not saying exploiting should be legal, but if i tell someone that for 100k gold, up front, ill bost him to 2.7k (just an example) but i just take the gold and dont deliver then that should not be worth a ban.

Well, it is worth a ban for us, and that's all that matters. If you really can't understand why, you will simply have to deal with a "because we say so."

[Handepsilon]

In a game! where you can kill people talking about legality irl is BS, im sorry but it is. If its not an exploit and it doesnt concern the eula then in game its legal. Forbidding it are custom rules.

It's bannable in retail too btw.

https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/scam-policy

[Mercy]

"custom rules"? Really? And who would honestly care about this rule unless they had an intention of taking advantage of others in this way? Come on now. Use your noodle.

[IcarNS]

I lost some faith in this community with this thread.

I really hope you play Icecrown so you do not even have the chance to meet me.

Worst of the luck in real life for you, OP.

[purr4g]

I'm pretty sure WolfCD is trolling* or a moron.

The logical "end point" in a server that does not punish scamming is the end of any trust whatsoever.
This is roughly how it progresses, from observation of "the old server" back when scamming was at its peak and not punishable:

1. A few start scamming.
2. Those who got scammed and found out nothing is done about it start scamming. Then the majority of the server scams.
3. Mats +tip trades and all other trust based trades disappear.
4. Trade = AH only; Even if you never get scammed, too much time is wasted meeting and not trading with scammers.
5. Guildies start scamming each other, there is too much of it get to the truth, people stop caring.
6. Guildies start ninjaing when they think that their guild has exhausted its usefulness to them.
7. Server starts to lose population.

Option 1: No anti scam + anti ninja rules added:
8. Population decline continues till eventually WolfCD has no one left to scam.
9. WolfCD cries himself to sleep at the cruelty and unfairness of the world.

Option 2: Anti scam + anti ninja rules added:
8. WolfCD cries himself to sleep at the cruelty and unfairness of the world.

CONCLUSION:
Scamming is against the rules because of a huge conspiracy; Kaer did not approve of anyone else being a wolf.
He wanted to punish WolfCD.
He wanted WolfCD's tears as proof of the punishment.
Devs failed to send an onion to WolfCD over the internet and blamed Tor's documentation.
Kaer came up with the above plan and decided to add anti scam and anti ninja rules because he wanted the tears sooner rather than later.

*trolling used to actually be a fine art, where it was clear enough to anyone in the know that it was, in fact, trolling. It used to be funny. I do not use trolling in that sense of the word here. I use it as a synonym for a cretinous moron, since if your trolling is totally indistinguishable (even to the trained eye) from ******ed idiocy, then, believe it or not, you are actually just being a ******ed *****.

[peppermint]

i'm not einstein, but, think of it in a gaming point of view, it could be a ''feature'' in the game, of course, if you've being scammed, you've lost money or items, or both, but he is right, it's some how your fault.
i'm not sure he is a moron, it was just a question , it's more why? i just wanna know, because it could be fun
we/I've seen game where the player could take your money and items after killing you. It was really hard
all the post is offensive, but i think it was more on /discuss kind of post.

Then it never happen to me on Warmane nor on retail, but i'have seen it a lot,

nobody played Aion here?, there is a special feature, you can wrap BoP items and then sell them, on AH or direct to others, it was implanted for hcg who then, can send it to their alts, but it became of course a new market, it's always high priced, in Aion we talk in billions of gold for some rare items, the scamming is so incridible, it's beyond comprehension, but there is no rules if only one, just take care on who is the seller...

Warmane give a answer for it, Ban because of excess, like Irl btw, when people abuse to much, there is a law to prevent it again

[purr4g]

if you've being scammed, you've lost money or items, or both, but he is right, it's some how your fault.

This is true, and i've never been scammed. As for "feature" fine, absolutely fine, but then it needs to be a REAL feature. You need contract law, judges etc, court orders to seize all their assets, npc all their epic gear, then throw them in jail (jail time only counts down when logged in). That would be a feature and that would be awesome, but that would also be.... a different game.

I say he is clearly a moron because the options are:

a)He is trolling (where trolling is a synonym for being a cretin)
b)He is actually serious and too stupid to think it through.

Either way, he's a moron.

P.S. regarding "there is a law to prevent it again", take a good look at that and figure out why it's highly amusing to see this level of ignorance and/or naïvité.

[peppermint]

This is true, and i've never been scammed. As for "feature" fine, absolutely fine, but then it needs to be a REAL feature. You need contract law, judges etc, court orders to seize all their assets, npc all their epic gear, then throw them in jail (jail time only counts down when logged in). That would be a feature and that would be awesome, but that would also be.... a different game.

yes definitely

I say he is clearly a moron because the options are:

a)He is trolling (where trolling is a synonym for being a cretin)
b)He is actually serious and too stupid to think it through.

Either way, he's a moron.

you weren't the target, believe me, it's more the tone of the whole post really

P.S. regarding "there is a law to prevent it again", take a good look at that and figure out why it's highly amusing to see this level of ignorance and/or naïvité.

i' m naïve? or the question is?, i could be, law doesn't stop people that much, but you can react, go in court etc.. which lead to your answer, it must be implemented as it is Irl .

[Skuddy]

There comes the "idi0t" part into play, if you trade you valuable stuff to a lvl 1 toon you really should have known better.

it wouldn't necessarily be a level 1, you can do 1-80 in 2 days on icecrown.

[WolfCD]

I'm pretty sure WolfCD is trolling* or a moron.

The logical "end point" in a server that does not punish scamming is the end of any trust whatsoever.
This is roughly how it progresses, from observation of "the old server" back when scamming was at its peak and not punishable:

1. A few start scamming.
2. Those who got scammed and found out nothing is done about it start scamming. Then the majority of the server scams.
3. Mats +tip trades and all other trust based trades disappear.
4. Trade = AH only; Even if you never get scammed, too much time is wasted meeting and not trading with scammers.
5. Guildies start scamming each other, there is too much of it get to the truth, people stop caring.
6. Guildies start ninjaing when they think that their guild has exhausted its usefulness to them.
7. Server starts to lose population.

Option 1: No anti scam + anti ninja rules added:
8. Population decline continues till eventually WolfCD has no one left to scam.
9. WolfCD cries himself to sleep at the cruelty and unfairness of the world.

Option 2: Anti scam + anti ninja rules added:
8. WolfCD cries himself to sleep at the cruelty and unfairness of the world.

CONCLUSION:
Scamming is against the rules because of a huge conspiracy; Kaer did not approve of anyone else being a wolf.
He wanted to punish WolfCD.
He wanted WolfCD's tears as proof of the punishment.
Devs failed to send an onion to WolfCD over the internet and blamed Tor's documentation.
Kaer came up with the above plan and decided to add anti scam and anti ninja rules because he wanted the tears sooner rather than later.

*trolling used to actually be a fine art, where it was clear enough to anyone in the know that it was, in fact, trolling. It used to be funny. I do not use trolling in that sense of the word here. I use it as a synonym for a cretinous moron, since if your trolling is totally indistinguishable (even to the trained eye) from ******ed idiocy, then, believe it or not, you are actually just being a ******ed *****.

Firstly, have you, and all the "you are an insane criminal, moron, etc" posters actually noted that the ones being polite, non insulting and on topic have been the people argueing pro scamming? You may claim im the insane douchebag but you are the ones spamming insults on a forum, not me.



Secondly, you are somewhat wrong. It has been shown in multiple games that scamming does both, it builds way more trust then there is without but it also destroys it, its twofold.

Lets start by the, it destroys trust - yes you will becomes weary of others, if someone offers you a trade you will look twice and upfront payment as such will decrease if not disappear. While it doesnt make mat + tips trades etc impossible it increase their difficulty with stuff like collateral being sort of needed.

On the other side, lets say i give a random person 100k gold for something right now, he complies and we have a successful trade - does that make me trust that person? No, obviously not - he didnt have a choice but to be "lawfull". Now lets do the same thing again with no drawbacks for him to actually just take the gold - he doesnt and we still have a successfull trade. Can i trust that person now? Yes, he has shown that while he could take advantage of me he didnt, so i can trust him.



This sort of thing leads to a more trustfull community in people that actually know each other (even just online).


There are games, such as eve, (just an example) where this is taking it to the extreme, imagine if joining a guild would allow the guild to kill you and loot all your gear your character is wearing. That game is like that, but it doesnt create a community of antisozial ******s scamming and killing each other all the time with no one teaming up, it creates very deep bonds of trust between people who do NOT kill each other for free and easy gear. The fact that they could makes the fact that they dont actually meaningfull.



Due to the reasons i layed out before in another post it also increases the sense of a community, due to people needing to know who is trustworthy and who is not.


Lastly i want to say that im quite disapointed by most posters here, just a lot of insults and almost no one actually answers in a reasomable and constructive way. Its just "no, you are a moron", really quite sad.

[SabathSova]

I am laughing so hard at WolfCD's stupidity.

[fieryfrostyflow]

The game is made for entertainment purposes. Yes, that word includes scamming, tricking etc... But every entertainment can have a direction. WoW is directed in the way in which players would have the best experience possible. It's made for people to enjoy it. For that to happen, just like there's law in the real world, court system and government, there are rules for this game and there is the Staff. If you wish to enjoy yourself by harrassing others, you picked the wrong game, and definitely a wrong server.
Also you should consider visiting a therapist.

Note: Sorry for the short version, typed on a mobile phone, and this thread should definitely be deleted.

[Marcuuus]

Everyone comaring this to IRL are funny... Also everyone claiming that the OP is "crazy" or needs to be "locked away" as if they're some kind of expert or judge/jury/executioner here are funny too. Scamming is douchey though.

[purr4g]

1. you are the ones spamming insults on a forum, not me.

2. It has been shown in multiple games that scamming does both, it builds way more trust then there is without but it also destroys it, its twofold.

3. he didnt have a choice but to be "lawfull".

4. This sort of thing leads to a more trustfull community in people that actually know each other (even just online).

The way you use the word trust, where you claim some one is not trustworthy if they acted the way they did only because of the fear of the consequences of not doing so, is simply a misunderstanding of what the word trust means.

You seem to be arguing that trust can only be built when there are no consequences for lying to and cheating some one, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

In reality, most person to person trust has consequences if it is broken, they're just consequences which are hard/impossible to transfer into a game. Rules, however, are very easy to transfer into a game.

1. There is clear written evidence that you are a moron. I am just stating a fact. Just as I would be stating a fact if you were born out of wedlock and obese, and I were to call you a fat bastard.

2. It has been shown in this game, on the previous incarnation of this server, that it destroys almost all trust based trading, except with people one knows and trusts IRL (and who are thus also subject to IRL consequences).

3. He did have a choice. You seem to be confused about what words mean, again. That or you are totally deluded and think that laws and rules can't be broken.

4. See 2.

Regarding what you said about Eve:That is a feature, one of many features, which created a game designed for a different experience to wow. This feature has no relevance to scamming people in game designed for a different experience.

[purr4g]

i' m naïve? or the question is?, i could be, law doesn't stop people that much, but you can react, go in court etc.. which lead to your answer, it must be implemented as it is Irl .

I just meant that "there is a law to prevent it" sounded like a naïve/ignorant belief that laws prevent things, but I guess I misunderstood something, since I now know that you understand they do not :3