I'm planning on taking a break from WoW/the raiding scene for the time being. Before I do that, however, I want to share my impressions from trying out the pre-pull SR in ICC.
Let's get the obvious out of the way - timing the pre-pull SR was horrible, as I lost the CC proc from the pre-pull GotW and a couple of seconds of the Haste pot, and I started attacking the boss with a small delay. Moreover, I was faced with an awkward situation in the time frame 0:47-0:51 when SR's expiration was synced with the second Bone spike, as generating CPs for the 33% buff and refreshing it on time would have left me with less resources for Swipe. Despite this, I see potential in using a pre-pull SR in that fight. All of the negative things I mentioned in this paragraph can be managed by a warlock summon.
It might seem wasteful, and most warlock players, I presume, wouldn't like it to summon us when we're just a few yards away from them. However, this would allow us to 1) buff the whole raid with the druid buff, 2) cast SR 3-4 seconds prior to the pull, which would be enough to desync SR's expiration with the second bone spike (assuming we do it with 4pt8), and 3) teleport to the LM's room and immediately engage the boss.
I decided to utilise this idea in my last raid, and here's what happened:
(the fight starts at 1:06, everything prior to that is part of the preparation)
Once again, SR was timed poorly, however this attempt was enough to give me a good impression of my initial suggestion. Doing what I did here synchronises SR's duration with Rip's which makes it harder to generate enough CPs for them before they expire (like what happened in the time frame 1:34-1:40). A Berserk-TF would be more preferable under these circumstances. Had I had a warlock summon prior to the boss fight, I would have spared myself quite a few headaches.
In conclusion, having a warlock summon in ICC makes the pre-pull Savage Roar A LOT better. kthx
22.09.2024
Before officially taking yet another break from WoW, I decided to update the guide one last time. I updated the part about the cat-specific tactics in most ICC boss fights. In case someone is interested, I also added a clip showcasing Festergut w/ a pre-pull SR. You can find a more thorough commentary in the third post (i.e. the one concerning the GotVV-shift).
19.11.2025
The guide contains new videos, where I showcase a more optimal setup surrounding the pre-pull SR. I welcome you to check the section.
-
Forum Veteran
Edited: November 19, 2025 Reason: added yellow text at the bottom
-
Member
Alright, man !!!!
-
Forum Veteran
I'm still working on the guide. Currently, I need to check the information in the following sections:
- Feral cat's piority list 101
- How to open as a cat?
- What's the value of a CP?
- FB. Energy investment and proper timing
- Different playstyles for a feral cat
- Pre-pull Savage Roar
- Tips for all 25-man instances
so things concerning the priority list of a feral cat. I'm taking things slowly because a) I want to structure my thoughts better, and b) I want to improve the sections by adding more video footage. This is the reason I'm going to leave "pre-pull SR" and "tips for all..." for last. Dunno how long it would take, but once I'm done with the 1st post, I'll check the other two.
Here, I'd like to explain what I'm working on during raids. Apart from improving my performance (i.e. minimising mistakes), I am trying to engage some bosses with a pre-pull SR. Since I'm a Horde player, I'll explain the individual steps I need to make to achieve this, but Alliance players can just...
and I'm not going to mention anything else in that regard.
.
.
.
So, I'd like to begin with LM as imho it's the easiest boss for which one can obtain CPs. This is because players can do the setup while the group is still forming, so before the raid officially starts. As explained in the guide, once the trash has been cleared CP-users can attack one of the skeletal spellcasters (i.e. Servants of the Frozen Throne). If there's a lot of time to kill, rogues can easily pop their Vanish and chill. Horde cats have a more sophisticated setup to fulfill. First, they need to get rid of their threat. They can achieve this by either going through the main entrance or taking the portal to Dala, which can be found next to the instance merchants. However, if they go straight away, then the skeleton(s) will follow suit and will be killed by the friendly NPCs. This is why the cat needs to root it and then leave the instance:
However, if they go straight through the exit, there's a chance for them to be ganked. A dead cat loses all CPs, and they need to do the setup again. This is why I recommend taking the portal near the merchants:
and using the engineering parachute midair before they enter the instance (2:58). Afterwards, it's a matter of positioning and activating SR at the right time:
There are a lot of things to cover here, so I'll begin in a chronological order:
- 00:03-00:10 - The reason I go to this corner is because I want to be in range of SR (100 yards). As one can imagine, it would be very annoying for the everyone if a trap is activated as a result of this, so rogue players need to make sure that all traps are disabled. Another reason for why I pick this corner is because I want to use my chicken. If I stand at the door, it goes to the enemies to the side. It dies, and then I take aggro. Lastly, I want to be as close to my group, so that they can be in range of GotW which would ofc net me a CC proc. Doing so, I can be greedier with my pre-pull SR and cast it with a delay.
- 00:41 - GotW into a CC proc as mentioned above.
- 00:46 - I use 4pt8 in order to increase the duration of my first SR by 8 seconds. As you can see, this triggered a 30-sec ICD for the Haste enchant on my gloves. While doing what I did in this clip made the pre-pull SR less valuable, this doesn't mean that using 4pt8 is bad - it just means that feral cats need to obtain the following set pieces - chest, legs, shoulders, head - either from Uld 10 or 25 (or from the vote shop). If I have time and I'm in the mood for it, I'll try to farm the shoulder set piece from Uld 10 or 25.
- 00:46-00:47 I accepted the warlock summon, just so I could be closer to the boss when I pop Nitro and Feral charge. In hindsight, I don't think that a warlock summon was necessary here.
- 00:49 - I cast GotW for a CC proc which was a MISTAKE because I already did it at 00:41, and my proc wouldn't have expired by the time I reached the boss. The reason I did it in the clip was simply a reflex, but you can imagine the whole setup without this mistake. As a result, I joined others with a small delay.
- 00:50 - failed pre-pot. Skill issue.
- 01:03 - going for FB was intentional. When I have a pre-pull SR, I can afford to be greedy with the CPs. Furthermore, the chances of getting CCs while I'm under the effect of BL are high, so I can swiftly regain those building blocks. Another reason is that I prevent my energy from overcapping in case I get spiked.
- 01:08 - first spikes => AoE
- 01:12 - Berserk ends, and I have 5CPs for Rip
- 01:18 - I refresh Rip
- 01:26 - I refresh SR
- 01:28 - seconds spikes => just in time for TF + AoE
- 01:41 - I refresh Rip
- 01:41 - third spikes. Sadly, I didn't have time to go for another floweshift, but if I hadn't made the mistake at 00:49, I would have cast Rip sooner so that it would expire before the third spikes.
This is the reason I wanted to attempt this fight with a pre-pull SR - everything is desynced perfectly. When it's time to do something (like an AoE or refresh SR/Rip), I don't need to worry about other stuff. Unfortunately, I ****ed up the rest of the fight, but the clip above should at least give a good idea what one can expect from a pre-pull SR on LM.
.
.
.
Now, it's time to explain the setup for DBS. Both factions face a long role play before they're able to attack the boss. For Horde, it's the longest (1:40), but it helps us obtain CPs in the meantime. Since the ICD of DBW is 1:45, a short pre-warning is needed. Before I go into further detail, I would like to mention that having an existing ID (either from 10-man or 25-man) helps an individual practise the setup:
- 00:00 - 01:54 going through the entrance
- 01:55 - 03:25 taking the portal to Dala near the merchants
As mentioned above, both of these versions help the Horde player get rid of his threat. The first one requires only one summon, whereas the 2nd - two. I should mentioned that going through the main entrance puts you at risk of getting ganked:
(1:26)
This is why I recommend taking the 2nd approach.
Here's what these versions have in common:
1) You unequip DBW.
2) The RL sets a 5-sec pre-warning.
3) You immediately equip it.
4) When the pre-warning ends, the RL starts the encounter.
5) You go to "Light's Hammer".
6) You attack the spellcaster skeleton and GTFO out of the instance.
7) You enter the instance ASAP.
8) 8-10 seconds before the fight begins, you cast SR.
9) You accept a warlock summon
10) GotW for a CC proc.
11) Pre-pot 1s before the fight begins.
If you go to Dalaran via the portal, then after point (8) you need to accept a warlock summon. You'll be teleported in the DBS room, where you head towards "Light's Hammer" and ask for another summon.
If you're using the chicken, as you already know, you need to trigger its effect 45s before the fight begins and immediately equip STS (or wtv trinket you have). However, you shouldn't use it if you're changing zones because the chicken will disappear:
In other words, the chicken needs to be used inside the instance when you're already done with the setup.
With that out of the way, here are some clips from yday's raid:
1st attempt, no Hysteria
- 00:00 - I unequipped and re-equipped DBW.
- 00:06-00:07 - I waited for the fight to begin and teleported to "Light's Hammer". The reason for that is quite simple. I need to be on the DBS's balcony when the RP is started, otherwise DBM won't show me the pull timer.
- 00:18 - MISTAKE. I shouldn't have used Dash.
- 00:24 - normally, I would jump on the skeleton and immediately acquire CPs. However, the other mobs were close, so I had to do this instead.
- 00:25-00:42 - LoS (so that the skeleton would go to me) + 5CPs + roots
- 00:50 - since the fight was going to begin in 54 seconds, I knew that I would cast the chicken with a delay. I contemplated on taking a portal to Dala, since it's faster, but the RL asked me to use only one summon, so I respected his decision. As a result, I used the chicken at 01:09 (10 seconds after the preferred timing and thus I delayed the effect of my WFS).
- 01:36 - SR into summon into GotW into CC proc into pre-pot
- 01:56 - The CC encouraged me to go for a FB mid-Berserk.
- 02:02 - second FB
- 02:08 - Berserk ends, and I have 5 CPs for Rip.
- 02:12 - I refreshed Rip, and I had plenty of time to acquire CPs for SR.
- 02:18 - I refreshed SR after the effect of DBW.
Again, perfect desync. Imagine what it would have been with Hysteria.
2nd attempt, with Hysteria
- 00:02 - I unequipped and re-equipped DBW.
- 00:08 - I waited for the fight to begin and teleported to "Light's Hammer".
- 00:30-00:43 - LoS (so that the skeleton would go to me) + 5CPs + roots
- 00:43 - Nitro into Dash.
- 01:02 - I entered the instance when the pull timer showed 43s remaining. Had I used the chicken here, it would have still been cast with a delay, but I would have been able to snapshot Rip with the WFS's effect.
- 01:39 - SR into summon into GotW into CC proc into pre-pot
- 01:55 - The CC encouraged me to go for a FB mid-Berserk.
- 02:03 - second FB
- 02:10 - Berserk ends, and I have 5 CPs for Rip.
- 02:13 - I refreshed Rip, and I had plenty of time to acquire CPs for SR.
- 02:19 - I refreshed SR after the effect of DBW.
There you go.Edited: May 4, 2025 Reason: correcting grammar mistakes and typos
-
Forum Veteran
Guide update.
1) Almost done with the first post (I only need to finish "Tips for all 25-man instances"), and then I will check the other two. Taking a break for now.
2) As promised, I structured my thoughts better in some places and added more videos. For the most part, the contents of the guide remained unchanged.
3) I wouldn't call it an overhaul, but the layout in "Feral cat's piority list 101" received a huge update.
Spoiler:Show
4) Same goes to "How to open as a cat?", more specifically the last part.
Spoiler:Show
5) That said, there's one section that did receive a huge overhaul, which is "Pre-pull Savage Roar". It's not like my tips for it changed - they remained pretty much the same - but I've explained each aspect surrounding this trick more thoroughly (from the choices for a punching bag to how exactly we're supposed to clear our threat and obtain CPs). I've added a **** ton of videos, so I thoroughly recommend that you give it a read.
Before I finish this post, I would like to talk about the perfect opener. Please watch the following clip:
Now, this video doesn't actually show the perfect opener, rather the idea for it. The reason for that is because I managed to cast 4 finishers during Berserk - Rip, FB, SR, and FB again. However, had I started the fight with a pre-pull SR, I wouldn't have cast this finisher at 0:15, rather I would have gone for another FB.
To put this into perspective, with BiS gear FB deals around 28k damage which is 233.33(3) dps in a 2-min fight. This damage doesn't include:
- trinket procs
- ToT
- Hysteria
- the 30% ICC buff
Just from this, we get net 28k damage.
Let's say I add 700 Str from DBW - this number will become 30874 (257.28 dps) or 37,048.8 with Hysteria (308.74 dps) or 48,163.44 with Hysteria and the 30% icc buff (401.36 dps). Admittedly, this isn't game changing, but it's not shabby either.
PSA: Don't sleep on the pre-pull SR - it's more beneficial than it seems.Edited: June 27, 2025 Reason: minor edits
-
Member
Love the pre-pull idea, the execution needs to be practiced, but as everything else. The bonus damage is guaranteed. Great vvork!
-
Forum Veteran
^^
Hey, Nap. Thanks for the feedback. My current idea of a pre-pull SR was inspired by the usage of the Ogre Pinata, which you brought up in one of our conversations in the past. So, thank you for contributing to the theorycraft.
Btw, I don't know where exactly I should mention this in the guide, but the pre-pull preparation phase can be improved in ICC. Once we've obtained 5 CPs and cleared our threat, we can summon the Gnomish Chicken and cast Cyclone on a critter in hopes of getting an early Battle Squawk:
Edited: June 27, 2025 Reason: grammar
-
Forum Veteran
I just added a new subsection, called "The journey begins... at level 80", which is more directed at new players. I don't offer that many specific spec-related tips, mostly general stuff, but it was something I wanted to include for a long time.
So, uhm, I came back from my hiatus and will continue working on the guide whenever I feel like it. I just want to get it ready before Onyxia enters the WotLK content phase. Last time, I stopped at "Tips for all 25-man instances", but in the following days I will check once again some of the previous sections.
I should mention that this might be the final updates to the guide. Something is cooking irl, to which I'm looking forward.
23.11.2025 Update:
The 1st and 3rd posts are done. I don't have new information to add to them except maybe some videos, but most of my fights are kinda messy (either I make some mistakes or someone else does). I do want to give you another DBS video with good Berserk RNG:
Couple of things to mention here:
1) Skada broke for some reason. Here's my actual dps on this fight - UWU link. Also, just like in my "Visions of the perfect opener" video, I managed to squeeze in two FBs during Berserk. Here's the actual dps during Berserk:
2) I'm aware that Hysteria wasn't timed correctly, but since this isn't a parsing guild and I don't have STS or Oathbinder, idgaf.
3) I shouldn't have refreshed Mangle at 2:04. I thought it wouldn't matter back then, but had I delayed it just a bit, I wouldn't have refreshed it before the boss died.
4) 2:57-3:07 I got only 4 ticks from Rip (5th was just about to register a few moments after the boss died), but this is one of the few instances where Rip was better than FB due to the energy cost. My last ability was a 5-CP FB with 40 energy. If I hadn't refreshed Rip at 2:57 and instead used FB, I wouldn't have been able to end the fight with a bite - I would have been 10 energy too short.
I'll work on the 2nd post (concerning bearweaving) and then call it quits.Edited: November 23, 2025
-
Forum Veteran
Attention: Most of my conclusions come from observing different builds with Rawr and the feral simcraft. If you want to know just how accurate they are, I advise you to check this post and its follow-up, where I talk about bearweaving.
FINAL UPDATE - PLEASE READ IT AS IT IS IMPORTANT
Thank you, dzianis, for our discussions on discord regarding the GotVV-shift (and for the other topics as well).
I. Preface
Before I get into the important part, I just want to mention quickly that I'll be stopping updating the guide from now on. I've invested (one might even say "wasted") enough time in this project, and I don't get any enjoyment from proofreading it on an annual basis anymore. Besides, most of the things I've written reflect the situation in patch 3.3.5 because I've based my conclusions on official sources (like EJ), personal playtesting, calculations, and results from Rawr and the Wrath Classic feral simcraft, so there's nothing else I can fact check. Currently when I read something I've written in the guide, I only wonder if it's easy to read and understand by others and not "How accurate is the proposed information?". I'm fed up with such concerns, so I will leave the guide as it is right now. Of course, if someone spots wrong information in the guide and makes me aware of it, I will gladly correct it (assuming I'm still active). However, generic comments such as:
will NOT be accepted as valid criticism. If someone spots something wrong, they should quote that specific part and offer proper argumentation. Explain why exactly X is wrong and how it should be. Offer numbers where applicable. If you don't do any of those things I just mentioned, then your comment is unfounded and all you achieve with it is to confuse new players who don't know which source of information to trust. You're not doing anyone a favour that way.
Generic comments like the one above are the reason why I preferred to test the mechanics of warmane myself and make my own calculations by using the average values in Rawr instead of trusting blindly what someone had to say. I only used the feral simcraft 1) as further support to the observed tendencies in Rawr and 2) to show what Rawr cannot show clearly - popular playstyles like bearweaving and flowershifting (more about that later). With the feral simcraft, I get to show numbers in a very clean way without confusing new players. I preferred this than to include calculations from my theorycrafting thread and bloat the guide with excessive text, making it unreadable for pretty much everyone.
In this train of thought, I want to mention that the current article "A comprehensive guidebook to WotLK for the wandering feral cat" is my only feral guide intended for both new players and veterans. The other thread "Brainstorming a new playstyle for pve feral cat" is not a guide. It started as a discussion thread, but over time I turned it into my personal draft where I shared my theorycrafts publicly. That article is not meant to be read by everyone, rather by those of you who want to see how exactly I came to certain conclusions. Please do not share the brainstorming thread with anyone who simply wants to learn how to play as a cat. The guide here is meant for that, as I have put the extra effort to structure it in an understandable way, and I've also formatted it to make it reader-friendly + I've added a **** ton of videos, screenshots, and personal diagrams to illustrate some parts better. In contrast, the theorycrafting thread is not structured for regular readers, is quite chaotic, excessively verbose, and has been long abandoned.
Even though I won't be updating the guide anymore, I still plan to add new videos of boss encounters from feral PoV. I don't consider myself an exceptional player, so don't expect stellar performance from me. I also don't participate in endgame guilds, which have the entire heroic content on farm, I'm obviously not going to show some amazing logs. However, the videos I intend to post will be for educational purposes. In this train of thought, I want to mention that I recently obtained Oathbinder hc on my Lordearon toon (yay), so I'm planning on replacing the old videos depicting GotVV-shift and its three variations with better clips.
II. Different mechanics in Wrath Classic and warmane
Before I continue, I'd like to mention that I haven't played in Wrath Classic at all, and I also didn't participate in any discussions in the official druid discord channel, so my knowledge of the environment there is quite limited. Don't expect a full-blown list featuring all differences - I just want to concentrate on few of them. Btw, I typically avoid huge discord channels because I don't like how "noisy" they are (= I don't like the constant, non-structured spam there), and as a result I miss out on useful discoveries and helpful tricks.
One interaction which comes to mind which apparently was present throughout Classic Wrath involved switching to a boomie OS, casting https://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/spell=65861, and returning to feral spec. Beardigo talks about it in more detail here:
However, this interaction isn't possible on warmane, and I think rightfully so:
Another interaction that was possible in Classic Wrath was the so-called snekweaving:
(Griftin talks about it at 4:30)
Basically, people used the Albino snake to reset their swing timer. This is also not possible on warmane:
Now, speaking of resetting swing timers, using instant cast spells has apparently delayed melee swings in Classic Wrath:
(GideonAI talks about it at 0:25)
However, this is not the case on warmane and is important to note because this concerns the GotVV-shift. In Wrath Classic, casting the druid buff instantly reset the swing timer of your weapon in caster form. What this means is that Classic players, upon casting the druid buff, were forced to sit through a long downtime caused by the attack speed of their weapon in caster form without attacking with it beforehand, and this can be seen in this video:
It's not the GotW, true, but casting Wrath with PS becomes an instant cast and it too delays the swing timer. The reason I'm bringing this up is because I've based my previous calculations on the current situation in warmane, i.e. where I can continue attacking with my weapon in caster form even when I use an instant cast spell like GotW or MotW, so I still gain damage:
If I have to redo all of my calculations with the forced swing reset/downtime in mind, they will look like this:In summary, when we take into account the swing reset, this technique is less, less rewarding than what I've calculated in the past. Now, people in Wrath Classic used to swap to a dagger which minimised the penalty a bit, but it's still nowhere as rewarding as it is currently on warmane. If I may express my opinion on the viability of the different feral playstyles in a Wrath Classic environment, I would like to evaluate them in this order:Spoiler:Show
Where in the last patch, people should avoid flowershifting like the plague and only use it pre-pull and during the downtime of a boss encounter.
Q: But, Kova, the feral simcraft shows a huge damage increase for flowershifting. Why do you claim otherwise?
A: Because it doesn't consider the swing reset.
The "old" version of the simcraft which still shows bearweaving and flowershifting in single-target boss encounters is this one - here. If I select "flowerweaving" in the settings, sim the encounter, and check the timeline, I see this:
In the timeline, the druid player casts GotW after autoattacking in cat form and immediately resumes attacking once he returns to cat form. This is NOT how it would have behaved in the videos above - the AA would have been delayed.
For reference, the first AA takes place at 24.03 seconds, and the druid buff is cast at 24.10. If the swing timer had started over as we can see in the videos above, then the game would have delayed the next swing by:
Since the druid buff was cast at 24.10 seconds, the next cat AA should have registered 2.57 seconds later, meaning 26.67. However, on that screenshot the cat AA takes place as soon as the player enters cat form (25.20s).3.6/1.2 (melee haste from bdk) /1.03 (haste from boomies) /1.1348 (haste on our gear) = 2.57 seconds
This inaccuracy can also be seen in the "latest" version of the Wrath Classic simcraft. Go to the rotation tab, select AoE, and start simming. You will see something like this in the timeline:
What you see above doesn't reflect an environment where the swing timer is interrupted by the druid buff. What you see above is the current situation on warmane with the "stopattack" command:
Q: So, what does this mean for us?
A: The following:
1) Oddly enough, the feral simcraft displays the current behaviour of flowershifting on warmane and not the Classic one.
2) Everything I've said in the third post of the guide accurately describes the situation on warmane. All tricks and tips you see there, can be used.
3) However, I suspect that this might be a bug. In EJ, "a civilian" mentioned that the druid buff resets the swing timer, so this might be the correct behaviour in patch 3.3.5. In other words, if the warmane devs change how the swing timer is affected by instant cast spells, cast GotW only pre-pull and during the boss's downtime.
III. Final words
I want to finish this article with the following tip: If you're ever unsure about something, and you're wondering if X might be better than Y, then what you can do in those situations, apart from asking me or someone else I suppose, is this:
- sim it,
- Rawr it,
- calculate it,
- playtest it.
This is the best way to obtain an unbiased definite answer to your question. If you're skeptical about the accuracy of the information from these two programs, I once again encourage you to check this post and see just how accurate they are.Edited: December 30, 2025 Reason: added more text + removed redundant text
-
Forum Veteran
Hi, all. Yesterday I recorded my last video:
and with this I consider the contents of the guide finished. What a relief, honestly, because yday was also my last raid, and I was already planning on taking a long break from WoW.
I had the idea for this video with the current click-bait title since 2024, but only recently (after obtaining BiS gear) was I able to make a proper recording. Don't expect stellar performance on my part, as I've made several mistakes in that clip. That being said, I consider this clip to showcase how a feral cat can maximase their damage output in patch 3.3.5. If you combine the setup phase from the video above with the RNG from these clips:
You will go really far. I already added a commentary for this video in the third post, so enjoy.Edited: February 28, 2026
-
Member
Thank you for your work and these "last" (I do not believe) videos, I'm sure lots of kitties will find this interesting instead of spending years of trial&error.
Quote
