name one thing in which warmane is worse (if you find something, you may aswell bring it to the bug tracker too). and there are many improvements that have been done. I dont want to take anything away from the brilliance it took to develop the original game, it's one of the best products that ever hit the gaming market for sure.
But warmane has done a phantastic job copying and improving it, to a point, where if you compare them objectively side by side, they are equal just that warmane has a few nice improvements. Sadly boomie being a decent specc is no longer one of those nice improvements, and the purpose of this threat is to try and keep the boomie issues which blizzard's version had, fixed on warmane
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Member
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Member
Is jmsvanbuskirk the next moderator or? he speaks more confident than the moderators themselves of what is warmane about and what does warmane do, spammed the whole thread yet he said nothing of value. please don't bother answering me and repeating the same thing for the 77th time, thank you.
That being said, after going through bunch of useless messages saying the same thing I want to say that I agree with most of the concerns that are brought up. I dont think reverting this change would bring any harm or make warmane look like the black sheep for not following the unwritten rules. This bug wasnt noticed for a reason, because it doesnt break the game. What ethics, what morals, what core changes are being discussed here I have no idea, it really doesnt sound like something that complex to me.
Would reverting this change do any good for the players and the game? Absolutely yes. The game will be back to what it was, where no one noticed for a decade that there was a problem, for a reason. People can continue to enjoy the game instead of being miserable playing it.
What does keeping the bug fixed achieve? Other than ruining the fun? I cant find answer
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The bug that has been fixed is server-specific and has been occurring for years. There are reports from years ago that highlight this error.
Incompetence or ignorance on the part of the developers and server administrators has allowed this bug to remain in the game for years. The fix now affects not only players of this specific class, but also any player in a group or raid, due to mana replenishment, for example.
How will Warmane compensate for this? Will they refund players who chose to purchase this class? Will they compensate with coins? Or will they simply continue to ignore the problems on their own server for years?
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That's not really what I meant. I'm not saying development or fixing things should stop. My point was more about how major changes, especially ones that heavily impact class balance or the meta, should be handled carefully, especially after so many years. Players have built their playstyles and expectations around certain mechanics (even if they originally came from bugs), so when a fix suddenly makes a spec way less viable without any form of compensation, it can end up hurting the server's overall health. It's not about refusing progress, it's about being thoughtful with the kind of changes that have a big ripple effect on the game.
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Moderator
'heavily impact'. If this bug was so gamechanging, why wasn't it reported years before?
And what do you mean, 'compensation' for a bug being fixed? What compensation are you asking for?
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I'm confident because I know the philosophy and objective of Warmane which has always been reinforced by the staff. I could quote it a hundred times. Their aim is to replicate mechanics as close as possible to how they were originally. If there's evidence suggesting it was like that in the original game then that's how it will be regardless of people wishing it was otherwise. The idea of "improvements" to the original game get thrown out every time. This isn't some unique extraordinary exception that has never happened before. Any argument here has just been an opinion, but what I'm saying has already been proven time and again. I know you probably see me as some obstacle and enemy right now, but I'm just being straight with you and honest about how this is probably going to play out based on how it always has.
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Forum Veteran
It made a spec more viable in raids, not busted, not OP, more viable. It didn't make top performing Warriors do 1.5k more DPS like Oil of Immolation did, it made mediocre class do more damage. It didn't make people get more boomies into raids as a result either when the bug still existed.
It's been there for so long that people more or less expected it to be like that, in other words, nobody assumed it was bugged or gave it a second through. I had many friends play boomies, yet none ever voiced anything about OoC proccing too much, or being bugged in a way or another. Only instance I can say people noticed it procced a lot was when you cast Hurricane on pile of mobs. Talent description of OoC leaves room for interpretation, it has no % chance, no mention of ICD (as usual), so it's hard to determine if it's bugged just by reading talent description(s) and playing the game normally. After all, it was discovered through comparing logs from Warmane to Classic/retail by the looks of it. Not something majority of the players do. It's something theory crafting people or kill time enthusiasts would do. It wasn't sudden change like Oil of Immolation was.
Will the Hunters' melee weaving be fixed now too, I mean, it is a bug still? "We" gonna pick now what bug gets fixed or not? How about partial fixes?
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Moderator
Then working the way it was meant has no reason to cause less of them to be taken into Raids.
Either the difference is so tiny that it makes no difference both ways, or it's big enough to change the game dynamic and makes it a reason for a fix.
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Forum Veteran
People didn't have the knowledge of the bug, so they couldn't make calls based on that.
Forever bugged boomies that did, as per OP's example, 15K dps, are now doing 13.5-15K. Less appealing choice compared to other DPS's that do more. They probably won't suffer the fate of Demo Warlocks ("We take you for the buff"), but I'm quite sure boomie presence gets a degree lower, it wasn't exactly that played class to begin with. I would like to see more boomies, as ugly as they are, in raids. The bug enabled boomies to be more viable without being too strong compared to other classes, now it's just weaker. What's weak gets left behind while 10/25 others march onward.
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Moderator
Then why is the discussion about reverting a bug fix, rather than being a "please buff my class" type of discussion? Essentially this thread has the opposite goal of the bug tracker. Rather than reporting a bug, it's asking for a bug to be implemented.
Would be easier to skip the mental gymnastics and just ask for the class to be artificially buffed with a multiplier to damage. Which is something the Staff has never done before -- and we have no intention of taking class balance into our hands. The game is what it is.
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Member
I feel like implementing an artificial damage buff is a much more custom change with a lot more questions to be answered, with higher chances of things going badly, than taking the fix for this problem, which has been working perfectly fine on your server for this past decade, and 99% of your players considers the true state of boomies as that is how they got to know the class and learned how to play it for years
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Forum Veteran
1. Hunters' melee weaving bug got a pass (DMG buff).
2. Please buff X class suggestions are denied. "We don't do custom class balance changes."
3. Precedence of leaving a bug (and not implementing custom balances) - Thus this topic.
So yeah, this is the topic is the chance that could positively affect boomies' damage. It goes without saying that people want to keep the damage they've gotten used to, the damage which nobody said was overpowered, damage that was considered OK. It's in oddly good place, thanks to the bug.
Perhaps they want to believe this could happen:
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Member
The only ones performing mental gymnastics are the moderators in this thread. If you have no intention of taking class balance into your hands then why did you remove deep wounds procs from oil of immolation and other spell effects, plus revert the hunter melee weaving fix (which is a good decision because hunter melee weaving actually makes the class enjoyable) despite these both being different in retail wotlk. Clearly you DO pick and choose what to include whether it's from 3.3.5, classic or something in between.
I don't even particularly care if the boomy change gets reverted or not because I don't play the class but your disingenuous replies are so annoying
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Because the impact it had WAS POSITIVE. It made the game better and there is no proof showing this is not true. Only thing we heard so far is how it was in 3.3.5 and no logical thoughts are being applied. What's broken right now is the current state of the class. Its worse and feels like a budget version. Its not the same.
Deep wounds can be seen as unintended interaction with spells, but Boomie being this bad cannot be seen as miscalculation and balance failure from Blizzard from 2 decades ago?
And with compensation I just mean that it has no positive impact in return, only negative impact. I don't expect any compensation, I just expect something positive to come up with a fix, not to get a class nerfed by TEN percent, already a bad peforming class and making other classes to oom easier as well
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I feel like Warmane does this and is mostly thriving because of this exact thing. You guys are doing Wotlk but changes to ICC in Lordaeron make the game better. I feel like if you made the same stance to other changes the game would be better and more fun. I used to get excited to see the new Devlog and Changelog, but recently it's kind of just "oh let's see which class will be performing worse" which is kind of demotivating.
I wish we would get more changes which add to the game rather then remove aspects of the game even though they are technically bugfixes.
