Cataclysm [Guide] Combat Rogue PvE

[Justicerr]

As you can see I edited upper, as far as I remember Glyph of SS has 1 min internal cooldown so, 1 extra CP that you can still lose once per minute is not worth that 1 talent point.

Glyph of SS doesn't have an icd, at least on Molten, and I would think it shouldn't have on Retail either.

I have a theory on why this happens and I could test it but I have to think of a way how but I think Fluid Death's procs generate mastery procs. Rec if you got some other trinket that isn't stackable(eye or rajh for ex) and you could test how much damage you do with that(heroic dummy works, as long as it's the same dummy).

I only got Fluid Death ~month ago, I was using Left Eye of Rajh with DMC: Hurricane before that and it was the same story.

Did you also gem mastery? Because if you did it means mastery in the current situation is even better than agility, which I would not be surprised to see.

No, I don't gem pure mastery, 20agi and 20mastery on yellow and rest is normal. I don't think mastery overtakes agility, even at its current bugged state.

[taralej]

With that mastery bug I guess slow/slow is best combination.

Interesting idea, but it will hamper Combat Potency.

I thought MG is offhand only mastery, hence the name "Main Gauche" means left hand.

It was. Blizzard changed it in very early Cata version, because it sucked.

[Seigfried]

Well guys currently i have all rdf hc gear and some pvp honor items. Basically pre-raid gear.

I dont want to clutter the thread up with useless pictures but as i can see my top 3 attacks are
1) Melee
2) Sinister Strike
3) Main Gauche

Even though I have reforged entirely for Mastery it is still my 3rd most damaging stat. Anyone can tell me why?

[taralej]

I find it strange that Melee is your first one... Neither on Haste-stacking nor on Mastery was it my first DPS output. My recount usually looks like SS>Evi>Melee>MG. There's some weird-a*s s**t going on around here...

[Griefel]

You need a certain ammout of mastery vs a certain amount of haste to get something like what SoulSeeker is getting. I have around the same mastery he has, but my focus is still on haste gearing, and I have a dmg source output like yours Forbearance. In otherwords Mastery gets better as you have more(mastery procs more mastery, and more mastery procs even more, and so on, at 100% mastery you would probably hit only with mastery and disconnect/crash the server =)) ).

@taralej: Haste comes out to more melee attacks, it's just that you also have more haste and agi unlike Forbearance.

@Soulsseeker: No ICD means it procs continously, which it doesn't. :)

[Justicerr]

@Soulsseeker: No ICD means it procs continously, which it doesn't. :)

You are clearly not well informed. The internal cd prevents certain abilities(mostly trinket procs) from proccing too often. Like the Rajh trinket, which has a chance to proc for 15 seconds, and has a 45 second icd, which means you can't get it again for the next 30 seconds after the effect has faded.(if I remember correctly)

Glyph of Sinister Strike does NOT have an icd. It can proc several SSs in a row.

[dominitian]

You need a certain ammout of mastery vs a certain amount of haste to get something like what SoulSeeker is getting. I have around the same mastery he has, but my focus is still on haste gearing, and I have a dmg source output like yours Forbearance. In otherwords Mastery gets better as you have more(mastery procs more mastery, and more mastery procs even more, and so on, at 100% mastery you would probably hit only with mastery and disconnect/crash the server =)) ).

@taralej: Haste comes out to more melee attacks, it's just that you also have more haste and agi unlike Forbearance.

@Soulsseeker: No ICD means it procs continously, which it doesn't. :)

soulseeker is using http://www.wowhead.com/item=62468 trinket so this might help him a bit giving him a big chunk of mastery

[Griefel]

You are clearly not well informed. The internal cd prevents certain abilities(mostly trinket procs) from proccing too often. Like the Rajh trinket, which has a chance to proc for 15 seconds, and has a 45 second icd, which means you can't get it again for the next 30 seconds after the effect has faded.(if I remember correctly)

Yes I know this, obviously, that was just a rough explanation. :rolleyes:

Glyph of Sinister Strike does NOT have an icd. It can proc several SSs in a row.

Are you sure about this? I didn't notice it coming up too often in my rotations.

[taralej]

I must test this specifically because I remember most of the time I am getting a cp from the glyph very rarely, and there was also 1 min icd listed either at wowhead or on wowwiki(I don't remember which).

Neither Wowhead nor Wowwiki have any information regarding GoSS having an ICD. I found several references, where it has been mentioned that it doesn't have such. It would be ridiculous if it did and it would render the glyph obsolete. As far as I remember from personal experience, it doesn't.

[Griefel]

Neither Wowhead nor Wowwiki have any information regarding GoSS having an ICD. I found several references, where it has been mentioned that it doesn't have such. It would be ridiculous if it did and it would render the glyph obsolete. As far as I remember from personal experience, it doesn't.

Yeah I could not back that up, so I edited my post about that. And I don't know about ridiculous, it maybe obsolete in the current mastery situation.

[taralej]

Yeah I could not back that up, so I edited my post about that. And I don't know about ridiculous, it maybe obsolete in the current mastery situation.

If GoSS really has an ICD on Molten, I'd rather glyph AR, SnD, RvS and abuse Redirect bug instead. I really don't think it does though.

Edit: talk about Redirect bug, I am prone to believe that following the pattern, which I just described, would yield more DPS than the "normal" rotation. You have a built-in GoSS (even thought through a bug), so instead of taking a chance, you're just adding up the next rated glyph in DPS gain.

[Seigfried]

Even assuming that kungfuslayer has ilevel 352 and soulsseeker has say 358 + 2 landslides + w/e
The fact still remains that a difference of ~6 ilevels and 2 enchants is causing a dps loss of around 10k which is definitely sizeable and merits inspection. I can understand a dps difference of around 5k coz of better gear/pve gear etc but certainly not this much. Thats all i want to say.

WTB Armory. Meh dont care.

................................................

On topic.
My mastery is currently 14% i guess the later course of action here would be to decide at what gear level should we start pouring stats to mastery rather than haste. I guess at lower gear levels haste gives us more. All speculation here sorry.

Bought Fluid Death yesterday. I guess second BiS would be Tia's Grace HC :D

[Justicerr]

@Forbearance
Sure, let's assume that, why not. Let's assume the Boogeyman exists too then if we're gonna assume things that people blindly state with no evidence are right.

Bought Fluid Death yesterday. I guess second BiS would be Tia's Grace HC :D

yes, that would be right. I was doing Lost City HC every day for that trinket which was very hard considering almost noone wanted to do that dungeon. Anyway, I never saw it drop and gave up, that's why I'm using the Unsolvable Riddle one instead.

[Seigfried]

He exists!

[RyuIsaCookie]

Glyph of SS has no icd at all. Like it was mentioned you CAN have multiple procs if you are LUCKY. At the current state of Redirect the glyph becomes totally unneeded. Right now it seems like AR, SnD and RvS (Evics?) glyphs are the best choice. That's all based on the current top dps output skills.

Fluid death + Tia`s Grace are indeed BiS trinkets but like Rec said since most people don't bother making Tolvir Runs you can go with either Eye/Key or UWarning. If you do how ever manage to get your hands on the Tolvir trinket don't hesitate to use it because it will be BiS for as long are Mastery is the main stat.

As you can see from the SS i posted on the 2nd page i have about 4.8% haste which is roughly just over 600 and Rec has even more. So that's the amount you shouldn't (lol) get over. You can see all of my other stats and make an estimate of what you would want to get. I'm not saying that my gear is perfectly optimized but it seems to work pretty good up till now.