Unfair towards future DK players:

[T1LL]

I never demanded anything.



It spiraled out of control because even if his original question has been answered and given examples on why it won't happen, by both us and a member of the staff, he kept pressing the question.



Yes, I keep saying the same thing over and over again, worded differently, in hopes he will understand and stop asking the same question a billion times.


Sorry, I have low tolerance for carebears.

Asking over and over? This is my first question regarding this. So dont talk nonsense.

You guys are complaining about gear you have actually no idea about:

http://www.wowhead.com/item=34652/acherus-knights-hood - 15 Str - 15 Stamina - 9 Crit - DK Item

http://www.wowhead.com/item=22411/he...he-executioner - 14 Str - 14 Stamina - 14 Crit - Stratholm Item

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Helm_of_Valor - 13 Str - 8 Agy - 20 Stamina - 7 Crit - Scholomance Item

So, wait, what - DKs are gonna have an advantage for a few days till everybody runs a few dungeons? And what advantage? While raiding? They share the advantage with their raid group. While PvPing? Wow, you will get the BiS PvP Items in 1 day and have 3x better gear than the DK.

Disadvantage in BC? Show me something. Numbers, not some "i know this and this" stuff.

And as someone who already played on a BC server which was on 3.3.5a patch, you better dont argue with me about the advantage some classes will have with this talents in classic. There will be no balance. Cant wait to actually show you balance in world PvP, with Arcan Mage on LvL 60 with those talents.

So much bull**** in here, you guys cant seriously believe in what you are stating here without having checked it ever.

[Solarynn]

I think this thread was opened up for discussions, not for 1-2 guys to shout down the idea and wonder why the OP won't drop the topic. Everyone will accept the final decision is of the Warmane Staff, whatever it is going to be, but please allow some space for people to voice their opinions.
I doubt Kaer will change his original intention, but it was told that the plans are still up for changes and it's not a bizarre idea to at least CONSIDER adding DKs sooner. Just like draenei and blood elves will be added on start and there will also be horde paladins and alliance shamans on the vanilla raids.

[Mingles]

You have to understand that even enabling DK class on the 29th and last day of vanila can be considered an advantage over the people who are along that level range in the respective day.It's really simple, you just choose to defend your idea even though you've been presented with valid arguements as to why it's not a good thing to do.

If you do not enjoy playing anything else but DK then don't play until wrath, the arguement about realm firsts is so hilarious i'm surprised you even presented it.You want to create obvious imbalance and grief within the players of the other 9 classes for the sake of those who play the 1/10 class, just so you can have the very, very, very offchance of maybe somehow being remotely close to a realm first.

[Jijipls]

Sorry for not reading all 5 pages, but is the same happening with Blood Elves/Draeneis prior to Outland release?

[T1LL]

You have to understand that even enabling DK class on the 29th and last day of vanila can be considered an advantage over the people who are along that level range in the respective day.It's really simple, you just choose to defend your idea even though you've been presented with valid arguements as to why it's not a good thing to do.

If you do not enjoy playing anything else but DK then don't play until wrath, the arguement about realm firsts is so hilarious i'm surprised you even presented it.You want to create obvious imbalance and grief within the players of the other 9 classes for the sake of those who play the 1/10 class, just so you can have the very, very, very offchance of maybe somehow being remotely close to a realm first.

Oh well, where is the advantage in playing one class to 55, start leveling a DK, finishing your zone at 58, and being the same level like someone else? Explain me the advantage please?

And why is it allowed to play Blood Elfes and Dranei in Classic? If you go for the "released in x patch" story.

And btw, people defending their ideas is what this world is built upon. Because of ignorance people thought the world is flat. Till 1900. They thought you can fall off the earth. Think about it.

[Mingles]

Oh well, where is the advantage in playing one class to 55, start leveling a DK, finishing your zone at 58, and being the same level like someone else? Explain me the advantage please?

And why is it allowed to play Blood Elfes and Dranei in Classic? If you go for the "released in x patch" story.

And btw, people defending their ideas is what this world is built upon. Because of ignorance people thought the world is flat. Till 1900. They thought you can fall off the earth. Think about it.

The advantage is in the fact that as a DK you can easily solo a group of let's say 3 opposing faction players in a contested leveling zone for example.You're going to say 'but you can do dungeons and get the same gear', that's exactly what an advantage is, others have to do something extra to even get the chance to compete.You can also clear quest mobs much faster than other classes with ****ty leveling gear, leading to other people losing more time because of the disadvantage.This is 3.3.5 so leveling isn't all that easy, keep that in mind.

About the draenei/blood elves being allowed at the start, well, it's actually quite simple, they provide no clear advantages over the other races.

Ignorance is to compare this petty matter to something like scientific discoveries that revolutionized humanity and helped it grow.There is a really big difference between people defending their ideas, and people doing so blindly and visciously without reason.You've been presented flawless/strong arguements why this is a bad idea, you provided absolutely no real counter arguement.The only thing up for debate is releasing DKs in TBC, and that's about it.

[T1LL]

Oh wait, as a priest i have to drink/eat after every mob, should i blame paladins now for being able to run through everything like a knife throug butter? Those arguments...

[Radvo]

Asking over and over? This is my first question regarding this. So dont talk nonsense.

You guys are complaining about gear you have actually no idea about:

http://www.wowhead.com/item=34652/acherus-knights-hood - 15 Str - 15 Stamina - 9 Crit - DK Item

http://www.wowhead.com/item=22411/he...he-executioner - 14 Str - 14 Stamina - 14 Crit - Stratholm Item

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Helm_of_Valor - 13 Str - 8 Agy - 20 Stamina - 7 Crit - Scholomance Item

So, wait, what - DKs are gonna have an advantage for a few days till everybody runs a few dungeons? And what advantage? While raiding? They share the advantage with their raid group. While PvPing? Wow, you will get the BiS PvP Items in 1 day and have 3x better gear than the DK.

Disadvantage in BC? Show me something. Numbers, not some "i know this and this" stuff.

And as someone who already played on a BC server which was on 3.3.5a patch, you better dont argue with me about the advantage some classes will have with this talents in classic. There will be no balance. Cant wait to actually show you balance in world PvP, with Arcan Mage on LvL 60 with those talents.

So much bull**** in here, you guys cant seriously believe in what you are stating here without having checked it ever.

You cannot compare doing 20 quests to running 20 dungeons and 5 raids. The advantage is unfair and would bring unbalance to the game.

Here's how many times you asked/insisted:

1:

Spoiler: Show

Hello Warmane Community,

id like to point out a few things which hopefully can be changed for the sake of fairness and happy DKs.

Although blizzard implemented DKs with the opening of Wotlk Content, i find it very difficult and sad that there is no possibility to play DKs in the first 2 months of the realm being released. There are things blizzard did good, there are things blizzard did wrong, but there are things where you cant follow blizzards way on a strict path, like the release of DKs in this case.

What is the difference between having DKs released from the beginning, and after 2 months:

DKs can join the race for realm first achievments (just like everyone else)
DKs can farm achievments, gold, professions on their main character from the start on (just like everyone else)
DKs can actively raid/PvP on 60/70 content (just like everyone else)

What do the people which dont play a DK loose?

Nothing.

If you dont change your oppinion regarding that, you will just have a bunch of unhappy DK players which are forced to play some other class if they want to play from the first day as their main and compete for realm firsts or have fun in the first 2 months.

As you are willing to adjust things, i think this is something you have to look at. This is nothing which will harm other players, it will only benefit those of us who would like to play a DK from the first days on. (Of course after leveling something else to 55 first) As we are gonna leave our starting zone on approx 57-58, it totally fits into 60 content and leveling there afterwards.

I really see no reasons to deny this idea, if you got any constructive thoughts about this, ill gladly discuss it with everyone. But dont come at me with that "its not blizzlike", changing Naxxramas isnt blizzlike as well, but for the sake of happy players it will be done.

Thank you for reading.

2:

Spoiler: Show

Making DK playable after 2 or 3 weeks of classic would be fair then? Most people will be level 60 after one week, with having epic gear after 10 days, so by then it should be fine.

3:

Spoiler: Show

In the end, this is a Wotlk Server as most of the team stated, so why would a DK have to wait 2 months to play on a Wotlk Server.

4:

Spoiler: Show

And we are progressing through Vanila and BC only so the staff has more time to fix Northrend :D So why would you stop somebody from playing DK from day 1 or x?

5:

Spoiler: Show

Sou you are coming along with the "blizzlike" story, but you have no problems with non blizzlike adjustments to Naxxramas if i get you right? Why would you make people which want to play a class wait for 2 months to do so if they can do it earlier?

Why dont we just wait 2 more months on the server and then release everything when its ready, so everyone has the same chance to get to 80 first? Because people dont want to wait and its not okey. But if you get DKs to wait for 2 months, its okey!?

Lets say you are all right with the gear, why done make DK playable after BC release? There would be no "unfair gear advantage" then.

And after that Naxxramas changes nobody has to come up with the blizzlike story.

6:

Spoiler: Show

Shame on me for trying to ask for DKs to have the equal chance of getting achievments and stuff at the same time like 9 other classes.

I see way 2 much rejection here, and i dont get it why. If DKs are gonna get released after 2 weeks of Classic i dont see anyone being harmed. The only discussable reason would be the gear, but neither that is gonna harm anybody, and even if, just release them when BC opens.

If all classes are equally played, 10% of the population is not gonna be able to play their favourite class, the DK, for 2 months. Why wouldnt you try and help them out and make them happy by releasing it earlier, as this is a 3.3.5a server (design feature) and it should be available anyway. I think its unfair, but luckily im not a DK player, just speaking out my mind on this matter.

I think i said enough about it, got nothing to add in this storm of rejection. Good luck DKs, dunno if i did you a favour :P

Atleast i gave a few people something to think about :D

7:

Spoiler: Show

Asking over and over? This is my first question regarding this. So dont talk nonsense.

You guys are complaining about gear you have actually no idea about:

http://www.wowhead.com/item=34652/acherus-knights-hood - 15 Str - 15 Stamina - 9 Crit - DK Item

http://www.wowhead.com/item=22411/he...he-executioner - 14 Str - 14 Stamina - 14 Crit - Stratholm Item

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Helm_of_Valor - 13 Str - 8 Agy - 20 Stamina - 7 Crit - Scholomance Item

So, wait, what - DKs are gonna have an advantage for a few days till everybody runs a few dungeons? And what advantage? While raiding? They share the advantage with their raid group. While PvPing? Wow, you will get the BiS PvP Items in 1 day and have 3x better gear than the DK.

Disadvantage in BC? Show me something. Numbers, not some "i know this and this" stuff.

And as someone who already played on a BC server which was on 3.3.5a patch, you better dont argue with me about the advantage some classes will have with this talents in classic. There will be no balance. Cant wait to actually show you balance in world PvP, with Arcan Mage on LvL 60 with those talents.

So much bull**** in here, you guys cant seriously believe in what you are stating here without having checked it ever.

8:

Spoiler: Show

Oh well, where is the advantage in playing one class to 55, start leveling a DK, finishing your zone at 58, and being the same level like someone else? Explain me the advantage please?

And why is it allowed to play Blood Elfes and Dranei in Classic? If you go for the "released in x patch" story.

And btw, people defending their ideas is what this world is built upon. Because of ignorance people thought the world is flat. Till 1900. They thought you can fall off the earth. Think about it.

9:

Spoiler: Show

Oh well, where is the advantage in playing one class to 55, start leveling a DK, finishing your zone at 58, and being the same level like someone else? Explain me the advantage please?

And why is it allowed to play Blood Elfes and Dranei in Classic? If you go for the "released in x patch" story.

And btw, people defending their ideas is what this world is built upon. Because of ignorance people thought the world is flat. Till 1900. They thought you can fall off the earth. Think about it.

So you see, you've asked why not release dk on x date 9 times.
And you can play Blood Elf/Draenei because it has no huge impact on balance, on the contrary, it offers both factions the possibility of playing shaman/paladins, hence further balancing the game.

Oh wait, as a priest i have to drink/eat after every mob, should i blame paladins now for being able to run through everything like a knife throug butter? Those arguments...

Invalid argument, both classes start at the same level, with the same gear. It's your fault if you don't know how to play your class.


You talk about ignorance, but you're the one refusing to comprehend the basics of how unfair advantages work:
If I have to do something extra to get on par with you, you have an unfair advantage. How hard is it to understand? Shall we start with kindergarten level English in order for you to comprehend what I'm saying ?

[Oldozz]

You cannot compare doing 20 quests to running 20 dungeons and 5 raids. The advantage is unfair and would bring unbalance to the game.

Here's how many times you asked/insisted:

1:

Spoiler: Show

2:

Spoiler: Show

3:

Spoiler: Show

4:

Spoiler: Show

5:

Spoiler: Show

6:

Spoiler: Show

7:

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8:

Spoiler: Show

9:

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So you see, you've asked why not release dk on x date 9 times.
And you can play Blood Elf/Draenei because it has no huge impact on balance, on the contrary, it offers both factions the possibility of playing shaman/paladins, hence further balancing the game.




Invalid argument, both classes start at the same level, with the same gear. It's your fault if you don't know how to play your class.


You talk about ignorance, but you're the one refusing to comprehend the basics of how unfair advantages work:
If I have to do something extra to get on par with you, you have an unfair advantage. How hard is it to understand? Shall we start with kindergarten level English in order for you to comprehend what I'm saying ?

Thank you for pointing it out. it wasnt only me then.

[Kelthuzzad]

I think this thread was opened up for discussions, not for 1-2 guys to shout down the idea and wonder why the OP won't drop the topic. Everyone will accept the final decision is of the Warmane Staff, whatever it is going to be, but please allow some space for people to voice their opinions.
I doubt Kaer will change his original intention, but it was told that the plans are still up for changes and it's not a bizarre idea to at least CONSIDER adding DKs sooner. Just like draenei and blood elves will be added on start and there will also be horde paladins and alliance shamans on the vanilla raids.

There is a clear difference between races and supposed ''hero classes''. People can voice their opinions there's nothing stopping them from doing that... Still i doubt they will consider it because of the reasons that pretty much Elisah and Radvo have mentioned..

[Oldozz]

Sorry for not reading all 5 pages, but is the same happening with Blood Elves/Draeneis prior to Outland release?

these races will playable from day 1.

[Kemii]

Why should we get DKs straight off the bat?

It's unfair on everyone, in a disadvantaged way.

Unbalanced PvP, imagine a DK with full non-tier raiding gear in PvP.. do you like being one hit by obliterate?
No set pvp gear for DK, first season for DK was Brutal.
No pve tier sets until Wrath. You can't wear Warrior or Paladin gear. You are stuck with offset items.
completes DK starting zone with gear nearly equivalent to BIS gear for other classes.
There were no DKs in Vanilla/TBC.
This is a progression realm... We just happen to be using 3.3.5 as the base core.

It's only 2 months... you have to level to 55 anyway to unlock DK, so just finish them 5 levels and go play something different, like a Paladin, or a Warrior.


As a DK, I know it's going to suck for 2 months for some people, but it's really unfair to have DKs pre 80.

[Kelthuzzad]

Why should we get DKs straight off the bat?

It's unfair on everyone, in a disadvantaged way.

Unbalanced PvP, imagine a DK with full non-tier raiding gear in PvP.. do you like being one hit by obliterate?
No set pvp gear for DK, first season for DK was Brutal.
No pve tier sets until Wrath. You can't wear Warrior or Paladin gear. You are stuck with offset items.
completes DK starting zone with gear nearly equivalent to BIS gear for other classes.
There were no DKs in Vanilla/TBC.
This is a progression realm... We just happen to be using 3.3.5 as the base core.

It's only 2 months... you have to level to 55 anyway to unlock DK, so just finish them 5 levels and go play something different, like a Paladin, or a Warrior.


As a DK, I know it's going to suck for 2 months for some people, but it's really unfair to have DKs pre 80.

Pretty much sums up the whole thread! :D

[Vicente810]

Why should we get DKs straight off the bat?

It's unfair on everyone, in a disadvantaged way.

Unbalanced PvP, imagine a DK with full non-tier raiding gear in PvP.. do you like being one hit by obliterate?
No set pvp gear for DK, first season for DK was Brutal.
No pve tier sets until Wrath. You can't wear Warrior or Paladin gear. You are stuck with offset items.
completes DK starting zone with gear nearly equivalent to BIS gear for other classes.
There were no DKs in Vanilla/TBC.
This is a progression realm... We just happen to be using 3.3.5 as the base core.

It's only 2 months... you have to level to 55 anyway to unlock DK, so just finish them 5 levels and go play something different, like a Paladin, or a Warrior.


As a DK, I know it's going to suck for 2 months for some people, but it's really unfair to have DKs pre 80.

So what? What's so important about Vanilla/TBC? This will be a Wotlk server, the 2 months delay is for the devs to finish polishing some details and for the players to level up. The "progression" part is for Wotlk content.

[Oldozz]

So what? What's so important about Vanilla/TBC? This will be a Wotlk server, the 2 months delay is for the devs to finish polishing some details and for the players to level up.

you are just whining about this so you can have the dam core ported over to Ragnaros and Deathwing. be patient DAMIT. GO TO YOUR OWN FORUM SECTION AND TALK ABOUT THOSE REALMS WHERE PEOPLE ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT IT. THE PLAYERS THAT DISCUSS THINGS HERE DONT CARE ABOUT RAG OR DW