Thoughts on server

[Qulx]

face it boys, only the bad players will cry if you remove the pve from EVERYONE
It's not like we vow for only rets to get their 2 set removed.

this is not about what class is op and whats not, it s about the general dmg output that is too high in comparison to the amount of hp and heal ppl have.
i have been playing my ret with 4 set creche and gurth doing 60k templars plus 20k mastery, and dont forget 20k censure tick. It is just plain stupid.
The sad thing is that it works to play with this amount of resi.
that s why i want pve gone, at least i wish. it is no surprise that there were many more players on 4.0.6 because you could maybe donate a weapon but it was no SICK dmg increase or anything like it is now.

cya boys

[Nacko]

Using PvE items in PvP is letting gear carry you, instead of skill. It means you're bad.

[Conmor]

Using PvE items in PvP is letting gear carry you, instead of skill. It means you're bad.

I don't understand this train of thought either. Past 2k almost EVERYONE you vs has pve gear either equal to your own if not better. Using pve items in pvp is not letting gear carry you it is letting gear even the field.

Want some examples? Nearly every dps class uses a DS trinket, a lot of healers benefit from windward heart or the spirit trinket, maw, khaleds, gurth, ratharak, heroic dagger, soul drinkers even, jaws of the earth bow, and kyrill. Then let's add heroic off pieces for certain classes and two set bonuses and we could argue epic gems is pve gear because the material to make them comes from DS only. As for trinkets we have Insignia, soulshifters, vial, bone-link, windward, cunning eye of unmaking, lightening capacitor and i'm sure I could put a handful of more of those.

I think you get the point, FAR too much pve gear on this server to say it carries you no it just evens the field mate sorry. ALL of the top ten teams have pve gear on them. Every. Single. One.

[BakuraLord]

I don't understand this train of thought either. Past 2k almost EVERYONE you vs has pve gear either equal to your own if not better. Using pve items in pvp is not letting gear carry you it is letting gear even the field.

There is few things that you're missing. The thing that makes it unbalance are the classes. For example, rogues and shamans can use No'kaleds that are way more over power than Kiril that is used by Ferals and Hunters. Other fact that makes it unbalance are the racials, humans can use the Cata trinket and still use one PvE item, druids and shamans cannot benefit from that PvE trinkets.

[Conmor]

There is few things that you're missing. The thing that makes it unbalance are the classes. For example, rogues and shamans can use No'kaleds that are way more over power than Kiril that is used by Ferals and Hunters. Other fact that makes it unbalance are the racials, humans can use the Cata trinket and still use one PvE item, druids and shamans cannot benefit from that PvE trinkets.

Sorry Bakura, but i'm going to have to disagree with you here. Nacko was refering to pve gear carrying people in pvp. That was the point I was making it does not it evens the field at this point as it is EVERYWHERE now. The point you think I am missing is not what I was getting at.
I know human racial is great. THAT will never change in this expansion honestly no use in discussing it. Also don't generalize entire classes on pve gear, it won't work. Ele shams use lightning cpacitor, enhance uses khaleds, resto shams use maw and sometimes spirit trinket or windward heart, moonkins use cunning or lighting capacitor hell some even go double pve trinket in rated battle grounds. As for Kiril for hunters, their bow, and two set also say hi. For ferals, they have pve mastery off pieces and Kirill. But yes, from a pve geared stand point they are one of the lowest on the totem poll for dps when it comes to using pve as the most you will see one have is three pieces when you have lol rogues using up to 8.

[Exista]

Sorry Bakura, but i'm going to have to disagree with you here. Nacko was refering to pve gear carrying you in pvp. That was the point I was making it does not it evens the field at this point as it is EVERYWHERE now. The point you think I am missing is not what I was getting at.
I know human racial is great. THAT will never change in this expansion honestly no use in discussing it. Also don't generalize entire classes on pve gear, it won't work. Ele shams use lightning cpacitor, enhance uses khaleds, resto shams use maw and sometimes spirit trinket or windward heart, moonkins use cunning or lighting capacitor hell some even go double pve trinket in rated battle grounds. As for Kiril for hunters, their bow, and two set also say hi. For ferals, they have pve mastery off pieces and Kirill. But yes, from a pve geared stand point they are one of the lowest on the totem poll for dps when it comes to using pve as the most you will see one have is three pieces when you have lol rogues using up to 8.

What about warlocks? We don't really benefit anything from the PvE gear in arenas. It's just a boost dmg in BGs but nothing really that makes it super unbalanced.

[Sanguineus]

I don't understand this train of thought either. Past 2k almost EVERYONE you vs has pve gear either equal to your own if not better. Using pve items in pvp is not letting gear carry you it is letting gear even the field.

Want some examples? Nearly every dps class uses a DS trinket, a lot of healers benefit from windward heart or the spirit trinket, maw, khaleds, gurth, ratharak, heroic dagger, soul drinkers even, jaws of the earth bow, and kyrill. Then let's add heroic off pieces for certain classes and two set bonuses and we could argue epic gems is pve gear because the material to make them comes from DS only. As for trinkets we have Insignia, soulshifters, vial, bone-link, windward, cunning eye of unmaking, lightening capacitor and i'm sure I could put a handful of more of those.

I think you get the point, FAR too much pve gear on this server to say it carries you no it just evens the field mate sorry. ALL of the top ten teams have pve gear on them. Every. Single. One.

You're forgetting a crucial aspect of the whole pve gear in pvp thing: Classes with high uptime, aka classes that can kite/stun/dodge everything (see hunter/rogue/feral respectively) while still attacking their opponent get an added bonus from using pve items, since their target cannot do anything to prevent the high damage output. After all, those items were made to kill them dragons, hence why they can dish out so much damage.

[BakuraLord]

Sorry Bakura, but i'm going to have to disagree with you here. Nacko was refering to pve gear carrying people in pvp. That was the point I was making it does not it evens the field at this point as it is EVERYWHERE now. The point you think I am missing is not what I was getting at.
I know human racial is great. THAT will never change in this expansion honestly no use in discussing it. Also don't generalize entire classes on pve gear, it won't work. Ele shams use lightning cpacitor, enhance uses khaleds, resto shams use maw and sometimes spirit trinket or windward heart, moonkins use cunning or lighting capacitor hell some even go double pve trinket in rated battle grounds. As for Kiril for hunters, their bow, and two set also say hi. For ferals, they have pve mastery off pieces and Kirill. But yes, from a pve geared stand point they are one of the lowest on the totem poll for dps when it comes to using pve as the most you will see one have is three pieces when you have lol rogues using up to 8.

What I was trying to say is classes that can use better PvE items than others, and rogues is one of them. No'kaleds are extremely overpower compared to kiril or other PvE items. If the kaleds and the vial proc at the same time its like 40k just there. I agree that Cunning can be really good but to be honest its only annoyingwhen it takes me out of stealth.... I hate that >_<. About the healers using PvE... cmon, they're just healers they do not have the ability to 1shot someone.

You're forgetting a crucial aspect of the whole pve gear in pvp thing: Classes with high uptime, aka classes that can kite/stun/dodge everything (see hunter/rogue/feral respectively) while still attacking their opponent get an added bonus from using pve items, since their target cannot do anything to prevent the high damage output. After all, those items were made to kill them dragons, hence why they can dish out so much damage.

This is an important fact aswell.

[Qulx]

I don't understand this train of thought either. Past 2k almost EVERYONE you vs has pve gear either equal to your own if not better. Using pve items in pvp is not letting gear carry you it is letting gear even the field.

Want some examples? Nearly every dps class uses a DS trinket, a lot of healers benefit from windward heart or the spirit trinket, maw, khaleds, gurth, ratharak, heroic dagger, soul drinkers even, jaws of the earth bow, and kyrill. Then let's add heroic off pieces for certain classes and two set bonuses and we could argue epic gems is pve gear because the material to make them comes from DS only. As for trinkets we have Insignia, soulshifters, vial, bone-link, windward, cunning eye of unmaking, lightening capacitor and i'm sure I could put a handful of more of those.

I think you get the point, FAR too much pve gear on this server to say it carries you no it just evens the field mate sorry. ALL of the top ten teams have pve gear on them. Every. Single. One.

PvE gear DOES carry you, PvP was designed to be played with full pvp sets. But there are certain classes that benefit from PvE much more than others. Rogue with half PvE playin thug. np just sap into scatter trap and let the gear do the rest. Play warrior with half pvp, have fun get one shotted the moment you charge in.

just because everyone has them doesnt mean it's balanced. i for myself would love to play my dk with full pvp. i dont need my gurth, i ll stomp almost everyone if you remove the pve.

[BakuraLord]

This is the power of a Full Vicious 9 geared rogue with double kaleds and vial of shadows raid finder (for those who don't know, vicious 9 is even weaker than that one that you can buy in the Action House)
14k Hemo on a full geared while playing this super low geared rogue:

Spoiler: Show

And this is what happens when the kaled procs:

Spoiler: Show

This char doesn't belong to me:

Spoiler: Show

[Qulx]

This is the power of a Full Vicious 9 geared rogue with double kaleds and vial of shadows raid finder (for those who don't know, vicious 9 is even weaker than that one that you can buy in the Action House)
14k Hemo on a full geared while playing this super low geared rogue:

Spoiler: Show

And this is what happens when the kaled procs:

Spoiler: Show

This char doesn't belong to me:

Spoiler: Show

im looking at dat recount
it s literally only hemo, no other ability was pressed, all the other dmg came automatically.

so stupid :D
But we as a community must rise up to get it done, we d need many ppl to say that PvE is ruining everything, nothing will change :(
even after seeing those terrifying screenshots

[BakuraLord]

im looking at dat recount
it s literally only hemo, no other ability was pressed, all the other dmg came automatically.

Yap, that was Hemo spam only :D

[Conmor]

You're forgetting a crucial aspect of the whole pve gear in pvp thing: Classes with high uptime, aka classes that can kite/stun/dodge everything (see hunter/rogue/feral respectively) while still attacking their opponent get an added bonus from using pve items, since their target cannot do anything to prevent the high damage output. After all, those items were made to kill them dragons, hence why they can dish out so much damage.

This inherently doesn't make sense. I think you mentioned these three classes because they happen to be what i'm taking about. High up-time classes are usually ranged specs because they don't have things like kiting or roots to hold them back.

As for warlocks, ratharak and cunning and YES I mean in arena. Every class has SOMETHING they can use.

I do agree however that it goes too far when classes like rogues get access to items like BLF. Now if a rogue has it w/e but I personally think a STRENGTH trinkets proc shouldn't be SO GOD DAMN GOOD that an AGILITY class uses it for pvp. I'm a slight hypocrite when I say this because im actively trying to get because I know how RIDICULOUS it is.

This reason why I say pve gear doesn't carry is because what do you think people vs in arena? Warriors? No, they vs rogues, hunters, rets, priests, dks, ferals and otherwise. For example when I qued yesterday wtf did you think I faced? Rogues, ferals, priests and one frost mage and I don't even need to say rets lol.

So in a field where everyone you face has gear equal to your own and plays the class you play (in my case, rogues, shams, druids and hunter really new on him though). I believe it equals it out. Sure, it isn't 100% balanced but wow pvp NEVER HAS BEEN.

[Qulx]

This inherently doesn't make sense. I think you mentioned these three classes because they happen to be what i'm taking about. High up-time classes are usually ranged specs because they don't have things like kiting or roots to hold them back.

As for warlocks, ratharak and cunning and YES I mean in arena. Every class has SOMETHING they can use.

I do agree however that it goes too far when classes like rogues get access to items like BLF. Now if a rogue has it w/e but I personally think a STRENGTH trinkets proc shouldn't be SO GOD DAMN GOOD that an AGILITY class uses it for pvp. I'm a slight hypocrite when I say this because im actively trying to get because I know how RIDICULOUS it is.

This reason why I say pve gear doesn't carry is because what do you think people vs in arena? Warriors? No, they vs rogues, hunters, rets, priests, dks, ferals and otherwise. For example when I qued yesterday wtf did you think I faced? Rogues, ferals, priests and one frost mage and I don't even need to say rets lol.

So in a field where everyone you face has gear equal to your own and plays the class you play (in my case, rogues, shams, druids and hunter really new on him though). I believe it equals it out. Sure, it isn't 100% balanced but wow pvp NEVER HAS BEEN.

you are makin this even redicolous, you say it is balanced because everyone has acces to pve gear and the field is balanced out?
It equals out nothing! not a single bit, what do you think why certain classes are just nowhere to be found in arenas?
they were weak from the beginning but with the amount of PvE they gain almost nothing from it, while others benefit from it like crazy. It's not how the 4.3.4 pvp was originally disigned. Rets, should NOT have 2 set. in pvp, even on retail there werent that many ppl with it. maybe with raid finder version, but thats it.

If you are a good pvp player, you will never have any problem with the PvE taken away from you, since you can perform without it aswell anyway. But it seems you can't. Full pvp vs full pvp is when true skills starts to matter. When a rogue can destroy your enemy by sick cc instead of just lame *** damage.

trust me i see it when i get outplayed, it happens, but if you just get pve-ed down i dont call it outplayed

[Conmor]

you are makin this even redicolous, you say it is balanced because everyone has acces to pve gear and the field is balanced out?
It equals out nothing! not a single bit, what do you think why certain classes are just nowhere to be found in arenas?
they were weak from the beginning but with the amount of PvE they gain almost nothing from it, while others benefit from it like crazy. It's not how the 4.3.4 pvp was originally disigned. Rets, should NOT have 2 set. in pvp, even on retail there werent that many ppl with it. maybe with raid finder version, but thats it.

If you are a good pvp player, you will never have any problem with the PvE taken away from you, since you can perform without it aswell anyway. But it seems you can't. Full pvp vs full pvp is when true skills starts to matter. When a rogue can destroy your enemy by sick cc instead of just lame *** damage.

trust me i see it when i get outplayed, it happens, but if you just get pve-ed down i dont call it outplayed

Typical, I present an argument against yours and now i'm not able to pvp. So typical. Warriors are bad and not found due to class mechanics being terrible and as for pve gear not helping them out.... gurth is what even makes them somewhat playable in cata. As in the case of locks, in retail cata they were always only viable with one comp in 2's but AMAZING in 3's and rbgs and again pve has nothing to do with this. As for mages, they aren't very much present due to terrible bugs with them rather than pve gear advantage.
I can easily pvp without pve gear i'm just saying its worse than wishful thinking if you honest to god think people will drop their pve gear.
As for all the hate on rogues for this server, I understand rogues get a lot of passive dmg just from hemo and yeah it does seem facing roll from just what we do to deal dmg. However, rogues aren't even as bad here as they were on retail at least relatively. Remember MANY rogues had legendaries while most people didn't have their DS gear. While i'm on about rogues could they please let regular throw apply poisons already? I'm positive it isn't hard to fix.
You do have a point on that rogues lose a lot of the finer arts of their class due to this pve gear.

I've seen three other rogues other than myself land a redirect kidney sap in arena so....yeah -_- control rogues gones =(
Let's not forget combat saps from kick, bomb, los, blind (apparently even this is too hard for rogues now) other peoples cc's hell even disarms if you do it right oh and my favorite sapping vanish >:). It seems to me most rogues forget they can even do this ;.;.