Thank You for Further Addressing the Faction Imbalance

[sexy]

This **** does nothing to balance anything out LOL Horde ratio op

[Obnoxious]

I don't think the real perpetrators of the issue are the players who are most affected by it, aka alliance players. If anything they alleviate the problem as much as they can by continuing to play alliance. I'm not sure why you seem to be painting them as the culprit here when solutions were possible prior to server launching. I'm a little surprised at your response.

It's simple: the very fact people say we should have done something to control what players could do to avoid the situation already exposes it quite clearly. Just read that a few times: we were expected to intervene, so players (and you're the one separating factions here, I'm talking players) were prevented from ****ing up the faction balance. Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't have, that we should have just said "it's on the players" and called it a day. But on the same token, don't push it all on us - it wouldn't happen without players causing it. It's a shared blame, from both sides.

[CaptainBallsack]

It's simple: the very fact people say we should have done something to control what players could do to avoid the situation already exposes it quite clearly. Just read that a few times: we were expected to intervene, so players (and you're the one separating factions here, I'm talking players) were prevented from ****ing up the faction balance. Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't have, that we should have just said "it's on the players" and called it a day. But on the same token, don't push it all on us - it wouldn't happen without players causing it. It's a shared blame, from both sides.

A lot of people (Horde players with little knowledge about the game) don't care about faction balance at all. The ones that care might try to do something about it but it won't be enough unless every single one of them rolled Alliance and doomed themselves to be inferior. Of course, because of said inferiority, this would never happen without a massive movement by the playerbase to roll Alliance, which would never happen either because it's MUCH easier for the developers to do something about it in the first place.

[Conflictionz]

It's simple: the very fact people say we should have done something to control what players could do to avoid the situation already exposes it quite clearly. Just read that a few times: we were expected to intervene, so players (and you're the one separating factions here, I'm talking players) were prevented from ****ing up the faction balance. Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't have, that we should have just said "it's on the players" and called it a day. But on the same token, don't push it all on us - it wouldn't happen without players causing it. It's a shared blame, from both sides.

I don't necessarily agree with you, I'm an Alliance player for the record who was lucky enough to stay ahead of the pack on launch and find a large group of solid players so I would say im largely not impacted by a large amount of the issues that more common alliance players run into other then "Pls fly 2 many horde at the stone". Figured I'd preface this just so you and others can understand where I'm coming from.

Different parties benefit from different sides of this argument, why would people go to a more difficult faction to succeed with by purposely handicapping themselves? The Horde who "cause" the problem aren't the ones being affected so detrimentally. The cause is coming from a different party then the ones being affected. This subject has been such a long topic across the history of TBC servers and the only ones to make a successful dent in the situation within recent years has been the ones to implement outside solutions to squash the problem entirely. Players left to their own volition will 9 times out of 10 cause this ratio imbalance which is why it is up to the server to supply that carrot to the alliance stick.

People(horde) aren't gonna give two ****s about the alliance' issues until they gotta wait an extra 15 minutes for a BG to pop but an issue like that is so miniscule compared to the notion that alliance can't survive longer then 45 seconds outside of their towns.

I guess what I'm not understanding is that in such a cutthroat community that the private server scene is you're expecting players to put themselves at a personal disadvantage to foster a better environment which, in the nicest way to put it, absurdly silly to believe.

[soggius]

It's simple: the very fact people say we should have done something to control what players could do to avoid the situation already exposes it quite clearly. Just read that a few times: we were expected to intervene, so players (and you're the one separating factions here, I'm talking players) were prevented from ****ing up the faction balance. Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't have, that we should have just said "it's on the players" and called it a day. But on the same token, don't push it all on us - it wouldn't happen without players causing it. It's a shared blame, from both sides.

Yeah i cannot agree completely here, at the end of the day we are still consumers of a product/service, some of us paying/donating and some not, and of course as a consumer you want the best possible deal/experience to spend money and time on and with a little bit of research its clear that the better choice is by picking horde (remember my main is alliance because i went against this),

very few people will knowing pick an inferior product or service over a superior one and as the provider of the product/service a big part is on you to account for this, especially when you can see from recent history almost every TBC realm ever has has faction issues and take steps to make sure the choices for consumers are not so one sided.

but again this is all hindsight now and will not help the current situation.

[tekknix]

7.5k hard cap for each faction - problem solved.

beeing not able to creat horde toons is kinda uhm ye, useless. you think you'll get like 3-4k more alliance players? stop kidding.

[Obnoxious]

Very simply again: because there's no uber-avalanche advantage. Superior racials on a couple races aren't a game changer in the bigger picture. People aren't having long Battleground queue times because of racials. People aren't being ganked and unable to complete quests because of racials. It only becomes a real disadvantage because players create a snowball effect in the end of the day. Yeah, we should have protected players from themselves - but it's players who create that need for protection in the first hand.

[CaptainBallsack]

Very simply again: because there's no uber-avalanche advantage. Superior racials on a couple races aren't a game changer in the bigger picture. People aren't having long Battleground queue times because of racials. People aren't being ganked and unable to complete quests because of racials. It only becomes a real disadvantage because players create a snowball effect in the end of the day. Yeah, we should have protected players from themselves - but it's players who create that need for protection in the first hand.

It is a snowball effect because people know that one faction is objectively superior and since they know that others know that as well, everyone chooses Horde. How big the benefit actually is isn't important in this case.

But again, like soggius said, we can't change what's already happened.

Plus, like matthewh69 says, the benefits in PvP are actually very substantial. They are potential gamebreakers there.

[matthewh69]

Very simply again: because there's no uber-avalanche advantage. Superior racials on a couple races aren't a game changer in the bigger picture. People aren't having long Battleground queue times because of racials. People aren't being ganked and unable to complete quests because of racials. It only becomes a real disadvantage because players create a snowball effect in the end of the day. Yeah, we should have protected players from themselves - but it's players who create that need for protection in the first hand.

Except hardiness resisting stuns wins games all the time. arcane torrent and war stomp win games all the time. Blaming players for faction balance when they would be ******ed not to roll horde is kind of dumb dude.

I mean your pretty much saying "wow you mean to tell me half the people DIDNT roll the inferior races? WHAT?" get a grip.

[Obnoxious]

It is a snowball effect because people know that one faction is objectively superior and since they know that others know that as well, everyone chooses Horde. How big the benefit actually is isn't important in this case.

But again, like saggius said, we can't change what's already happened.

That's cattle mentality, though. The only thing that makes Horde superior is people saying Horde is superior and convincing others that Horde is superior. It could have been the exact opposite, if only people got convinced by others that Alliance is "superior." The only real, constant, effective superiority Horde has are the numbers, and that's created by players. As you say, how big the benefit actually is isn't important, just going with what everyone says is "better," which causes it to become overwhelmingly "better."

But again, as I said, I'm not claiming we shouldn't have taken measures, just that the fault isn't solely on us - unless you claim players are children who need the guidance on adults to make choices for them.

Except hardiness resisting stuns wins games all the time. arcane torrent and war stomp win games all the time. Blaming players for faction balance when they would be ******ed not to roll horde is kind of dumb dude.

I mean your pretty much saying "wow you mean to tell me half the people DIDNT roll the inferior races? WHAT?" get a grip.

Newsflash: winning "games" isn't all World of Warcraft is about; acting like it is is kind of dumb, "dude," get a grip.

[Mercy]

get a grip.

Funny thing, Obnoxious just here a day or two ago was asking in our moderator team chat why we could possibly be justified in requesting players to gimp themselves. But yes, clearly he's the one that needs to get a grip.
How about this instead: Recognize that we are forum moderators. The information we have is on a need-to-know basis, and our duties have nothing to do with systems applied to the realm(s) in question. So, with that said, is it too much for us to ask that you take it a bit easy?

[soggius]

Very simply again: because there's no uber-avalanche advantage. Superior racials on a couple races aren't a game changer in the bigger picture. People aren't having long Battleground queue times because of racials. People aren't being ganked and unable to complete quests because of racials. It only becomes a real disadvantage because players create a snowball effect in the end of the day. Yeah, we should have protected players from themselves - but it's players who create that need for protection in the first hand.

i mean you are right by saying this is caused by players (i mean initially blizzard by designing such imbalanced racials) but us too, however you have to realise most people come to warmane as an individual player, and make choices as an individual, and while some of us use previous experience and foresight to see that we as players are going to cause an issue because horde is so favored, most players see an individual choice of horde (better faction for almost every class, spec, pve and pvp) or alliance.

It is Warmane who needs to look at the community as a whole and see the big picture and as you say protect players from themselves, because all players will ever see and all you should expect the average player here to see is thier own individual choice and not how that adds up and affects a whole server.

[CaptainBallsack]

That's cattle mentality, though. The only thing that makes Horde superior is people saying Horde is superior and convincing others that Horde is superior. It could have been the exact opposite, if only people got convinced by others that Alliance is "superior." The only real, constant, effective superiority Horde has are the numbers, and that's created by players. As you say, how big the benefit actually is isn't important, just going with what everyone says is "better," which causes it to become overwhelmingly "better."

But again, as I said, I'm not claiming we shouldn't have taken measures, just that the fault isn't solely on us - unless you claim players are children who need the guidance on adults to make choices for them.

While I understand what you're talking about, the racials have substantial benefit in PvP. In PvE I agree, the difference is largely minute.

Also, I do definitely claim that a lot of players (many are kids, but also many who aren't) need the guidance of adults (developers). Players aren't out to make the game and server as a whole as good as possible, they're out to make their own experience as good as possible, often on the short term (not considering how faction imbalance will affect them). It's the developers' jobs to make sure the game and server as a whole are as good as they can be.

[Hendo]

What if they could implement like 1 alliance char instant 58 boost per account or something? boost to 58 with a mount, skills, bags and some gold to get started in Outland immediately. just a suggestion if it would be possible

[matthewh69]

Newsflash: winning "games" isn't all World of Warcraft is about; acting like it is is kind of dumb, "dude," get a grip.

Except it certainly something people care about, hence having an impact on faction balance.

Funny thing, Obnoxious just here a day or two ago was asking in our moderator team chat why we could possibly be justified in requesting players to gimp themselves. But yes, clearly he's the one that needs to get a grip.

If thats the case why is he in here saying faction balance is half the players fault? perhaps in essence it is, but really putting blame on your customer for making the intelligent decision at the faction screen obviously isnt going to rub people the right way.

Really you should have nerfed the racials to begin with and it be part of the launch, or atleast have faction specific q. no one has any sympathy. you were told time and time again and now ally has suffered.