dk tank?

[blackfriars]

i stronlgy believe that u've made a typo, because in a no world unbreakable armor grants 75% miitigation lol

good thing that i rely on my facts and not what YOU "believe "

Spoiler: Show

deathstrike spammer

who said anything about spamming?
more icy touch threat (which generates 90% of ur aggro due to x7x2.0735 modifiers (thanks blizzard lul))
equals more freedom to "perfectly time" your Death strikes and reacting to incoming damage rather than blindly spamming it and overhealing yourself.
also if you play blood and spam deathstrikes, i give you one tip: dont do it. thanks

[dike]

good thing that i rely on my facts and not what YOU "believe "

Spoiler: Show

what this screenshot brings here? are u implying that u went all the ****en way from 0% to 75% only cuz u used unbreakable armor? lol this guy

[Gnimo]

I would LOVE to see the tank spec u use, Dike. I want to see what is more usefull for tanks than spell deflection in blood tree and so on...

[blackfriars]

what this screenshot brings here? are u implying that u went all the ****en way from 0% to 75% only cuz u used unbreakable armor? lol this guy

unbreakable + 2k armor potion, yes, you can see my buff and most of my icc gear in the picture

[dike]

unbreakable + 2k armor potion, yes

ahahah, ur so funny)) furthermore i will not reply on ur posts, r8 1/8

I would LOVE to see the tank spec u use, Dike. I want to see what is more usefull for tanks than spell deflection in blood tree and so on...

do u even read that talent description? do u even know which spells are DIRECT damage? can u name any of them which u encounter in ICC or RS,except LDW frostbolt and Keleseth Shadow bolt?
inb4

Spoiler: Show

this is what i've used fro maintankinghttp://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#j0ERqI0IsbobsoZhgZcxGh

this thread has become so much cancer, indeed

[blackfriars]

ahahah, ur so funny)) furthermore i will not reply on ur posts, r8 1/8

good idea because when you get proven wrong its better to accept your defeat quietly

[Gnimo]

http://imgur.com/a/xPqNW

The point wasnt that u go from 0-75% reduction, the point was that with UA u REACH that point where u have 75% phisical dmg reduced which is the cap...
Sorry for not reading everything, that was my bad.
And yea, Bloody Vengeance is soo much more usefull than Spell Deflection while 80% of DK aggro is generated with IT.

But good to know that going deeper in Frost Tree where u get 20% stronger Icy Touch 4% more increased Strength, 0 runic power cost Interupt, 3% miss chance, Killing Machine, 25% faster melee swing, 20% melee haste to the raid is not as usefull as morbidity, 3% strength, 10sec less CD on Death Grip and 5% dodge.

I dont see it as a cancer, even tho i disagree with most of the ppl. If u opened ur mind instead of thinking u are the best DK tank ever seen on warmane and beyond u might learn something new and improve. I actualy changed couple of things in my own spec and improved after this, so yea, its always good to argue with someone that doesnt think the same way as u do...

[Beanlord]

@blackfriars
The damage reduction you see in your char. pane is @ lvl 80 targets. Versus lvl 83 you'll need 49,905. In translation you're not reducing 75% of all incoming phys. damage, but rather some 74,something.

@dike
Acclimation is highly reliable on encoutners where there's constant magic damage. Also UA basically caps you on phys. damage reduction for 20 seconds (at least after a certain gear level is reached) so what blackfriars said is technically true, not completely in his case though.

[blackfriars]

@blackfriars
The damage reduction you see in your char. pane is @ lvl 80 targets. Versus lvl 83 you'll need 49,905. In translation you're not reducing 75% of all incoming phys. damage, but rather some 74,something.

@dike
Acclimation is highly reliable on encoutners where there's constant magic damage. Also UA basically caps you on phys. damage reduction for 20 seconds (at least after a certain gear level is reached) so what blackfriars said is technically true, not completely in his case though.

technically yes, in combat with proper buffs etc you will be very close to 75% though

[Beanlord]

technically yes, in combat with proper buffs etc you will be very close to 75% though

Either slightly or a fair bit over it depending on how many off-set armor pieces you get.

Edit: Point is, UA makes you extremely hard to kill with a physical attack in the next 20 seconds.

[dike]

http://imgur.com/a/xPqNW

The point wasnt that u go from 0-75% reduction, the point was that with UA u REACH that point where u have 75% phisical dmg reduced which is the cap...
Sorry for not reading everything, that was my bad.
And yea, Bloody Vengeance is soo much more usefull than Spell Deflection while 80% of DK aggro is generated with IT.

But good to know that going deeper in Frost Tree where u get 20% stronger Icy Touch 4% more increased Strength, 0 runic power cost Interupt, 3% miss chance, Killing Machine, 25% faster melee swing, 20% melee haste to the raid is not as usefull as morbidity, 3% strength, 10sec less CD on Death Grip and 5% dodge.

I dont see it as a cancer, even tho i disagree with most of the ppl. If u opened ur mind instead of thinking u are the best DK tank ever seen on warmane and beyond u might learn something new and improve. I actualy changed couple of things in my own spec and improved after this, so yea, its always good to argue with someone that doesnt think the same way as u do...

what sort of conclussion u've made that spell deflection (****-tier/useless talent) is any better that bloody vengence (Rune strikes, cough)
killing machine isnt reliable talent to use with 2h
Endless winter is pure pvp talent, it has very little use in pve environment
Imp Icy talons can and should be brought by dps-specced frost anyways
Death grip is still a taunt

how it is not clear for u that the spec i linked ( i've even wrote that) is for MAINTANKING purposes, not weeebo-ot-fullsupport-imp icy talons build? =D

waoww i just saw spec ure suggested before http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#j0Er...obsZhxbxcMIzZz

srsly virulence 1/3 ? r8 1/8 as well

good idea because when you get proven wrong its better to accept your defeat quietly

my idea is - not feeding obvious troll

[Gnimo]

Ok let me try and draw it for u...
Lets say 9% more dmg on Rune Strike is more worth (even tho 1 IT does same amount of aggro as 3 rune strikes or even more) and that Spell Deflection is completely useless. These are nessesary talents, Mark of Blood and Heart Strike can be ignored since in most fights they are useless (HS does almost the same amount of dmg as both BS and BB, all 3 abilities do almost no aggro whatsoever).
We will end up with these talents if u agree:
http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#j0ERqI0IcbobsZhx
Now we have 20 talents to spend.

U go for 3% spell hit, 5% dodge chance, 15sec less CD on DND (making it 15sec CD) and 15% more Death Coil DMG, 3% Strength, and 10sec less CD on DG (making it 25sec CD) AND 10 yards longer range on Icy Touch.

I go for 20% melee haste, 4% Strength and 20 less runic power cos on Mind Freeze, Killing Machine 3/5 (which procs MORE than enough, even with 2H wep, u would know this if u got out of the hole u live in and tested it urself), 3% miss chance, 20% more DMG on IT, 5% more melee haste and 20% raid melee haste (which is good even if u have a FDK in raid since he might die, and u wont always have a FDK in pugs, and instead of FDK u can get one more mage / warrior that do way more DPS than a FDK, and so on...) AND 4% more Frost and Shadow DMG, with only 1% spell hit (which u can cap with gear if u know how to itemize).

A bit modified spec: http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#j0ER...obsZhxbxcMIzZz

So i guess u can compare and see what u use more in fight for SINGLE TARGET TANKING, do u use **** ton of IT, or do u use DND and Death Coil with Death Grip on Halion for example?

[dike]

Ok let me try and draw it for u...
Lets say 9% more dmg on Rune Strike is more worth (even tho 1 IT does same amount of aggro as 3 rune strikes or even more) and that Spell Deflection is completely useless. These are nessesary talents, Mark of Blood and Heart Strike can be ignored since in most fights they are useless (HS does almost the same amount of dmg as both BS and BB, all 3 abilities do almost no aggro whatsoever).
We will end up with these talents if u agree:
http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#j0ERqI0IcbobsZhx
Now we have 20 talents to spend.

U go for 3% spell hit, 5% dodge chance, 15sec less CD on DND (making it 15sec CD) and 15% more Death Coil DMG, 3% Strength, and 10sec less CD on DG (making it 25sec CD) AND 10 yards longer range on Icy Touch.

I go for 20% melee haste, 4% Strength and 20 less runic power cos on Mind Freeze, Killing Machine 3/5 (which procs MORE than enough, even with 2H wep, u would know this if u got out of the hole u live in and tested it urself), 3% miss chance, 20% more DMG on IT, 5% more melee haste and 20% raid melee haste (which is good even if u have a FDK in raid since he might die, and u wont always have a FDK in pugs, and instead of FDK u can get one more mage / warrior that do way more DPS than a FDK, and so on...) AND 4% more Frost and Shadow DMG, with only 1% spell hit (which u can cap with gear if u know how to itemize).

A bit modified spec: http://wotlk.openwow.com/talent#j0ER...obsZhxbxcMIzZz

So i guess u can compare and see what u use more in fight for SINGLE TARGET TANKING, do u use **** ton of IT, or do u use DND and Death Coil with Death Grip on Halion for example?

i repeat once again, - i dont see a reason to spec into imp icy talons ( cuz there is always skilled frost dk in my raid)
if ur saying that rune strike itself "isnt that much usefull tps generator as IT" why the **** u need to spec into talens which only boost the amount of rune strikes? ur auto-attacks arent dealing any ****ing threat.

i repat AGAIN - i dont need more tps-increasing talents (like ur glacier rot or black ice) to maintain my threat. why the **** i need to be specced into those, if IT by itself genarates enough tps to sustain?


ye and again u will never be spell-hit capped without virulence (with glyph of dark command u can do it but only for taunt, while ur IT and DG and even COI ARE STILL SPELLS)

[Gnimo]

So, for single target main tanking,
5% dodge chance + 15% more Death Coil DMG, 15sec less CD on DND, 10sec less CD on DG, 3% strength and 2% more hit
is more valuable than
3% miss chance + 20% more IT DMG, Killing Machine, 25% haste melee, 4% strength and 20% melee haste raid buff?

And why do u spec into 10% more atk power aura when u have a hunter for that??? Or they are just not skilled enough? What if u have to tank phisical realm and FDK is inside the shadowrealm? What if FDK dies from infest or gets picked by a valk that drops him? What if he DCs?

My last atempt to try and explain this to u...

U wont ever do DND as a main tank, u hardly ever have the chance to use Death Coil, u wont EVER Death Grip a boss, and u most sertainly dont need extra 10 range to tank.

BUT

More melee hits = More Killing Machine procs
More Killing Machine procs = Higher Threat
More DMG on IT = Higher Threat
More Melee hits = More Rune Strikes = More Threat
Higher Threat = More Death Strikes
More Death Strikes = More Self healing
More Self healing = Good Blood tank.
If FDK dies u still bring 20% melee haste to the raid buff table.
If u have both 10% atk power and 20% melee haste auras and insane amount of aggro generated u can get some other DPS more valuable for 10m raid comps instead of FDK and a HUNTER if needed.
FUN FACT: Melee hits generate threat. Melee hits are ur top dmg done.

Do u even understand how VALUABLE Killing Machine and Glacier Rot are? U basicly cast DOUBLE IT and every 5th normal IT is an extra IT? Death Strikes and Self Healing is all that BDK tank has, the more u do it the better it is. How often do u even use Death Grip, DND, Death Coil when u tank bosses? How much hit do u even have?

ITEMIZATION.
Cloak 44hit, Ring 55hit, Gloves 69hit, Legs OR Helm 85hit, total of 253 hit.
U can also use Cryptmaker for total of 352 hit rating which is 13.42% spell hit.
On top of that u can use couple of 10hit10stamina gems to reach 14% hit which is more than enough with a shadow priest in a raid for example. So again u DONT need full 3/3 Virluence.
And even if u reach only 10-11% spell hit total (talents not included) u wont miss every 2nd Icy Touch, u will miss 1 out of 10 Icy Touches, or even less.

http://imgur.com/a/e6Gy0
2 posible item builds.
One with Glorenzelg works better on curent state of warmane since u can cap expertise with 22 rating. If expertise was Retail Like, it would be pointless using any Expertise items as a tank since u cant EVER cap it, so it all goes to RNG.
313 hit = 11.93% spell hit chance
348 hit = 13.27% spell hit chance

[dike]

So, for single target main tanking,
5% dodge chance + 15% more Death Coil DMG, 15sec less CD on DND, 10sec less CD on DG, 3% strength and 2% more hit
is more valuable than
3% miss chance + 20% more IT DMG, Killing Machine, 25% haste melee, 4% strength and 20% melee haste raid buff?

And why do u spec into 10% more atk power aura when u have a hunter for that??? Or they are just not skilled enough? What if u have to tank phisical realm and FDK is inside the shadowrealm? What if FDK dies from infest or gets picked by a valk that drops him? What if he DCs?

My last atempt to try and explain this to u...

U wont ever do DND as a main tank, u hardly ever have the chance to use Death Coil, u wont EVER Death Grip a boss, and u most sertainly dont need extra 10 range to tank.

BUT

More melee hits = More Killing Machine procs
More Killing Machine procs = Higher Threat
More DMG on IT = Higher Threat
More Melee hits = More Rune Strikes = More Threat
Higher Threat = More Death Strikes
More Death Strikes = More Self healing
More Self healing = Good Blood tank.
If FDK dies u still bring 20% melee haste to the raid buff table.
If u have both 10% atk power and 20% melee haste auras and insane amount of aggro generated u can get some other DPS more valuable for 10m raid comps instead of FDK and a HUNTER if needed.
FUN FACT: Melee hits generate threat. Melee hits are ur top dmg done.

Do u even understand how VALUABLE Killing Machine and Glacier Rot are? U basicly cast DOUBLE IT and every 5th normal IT is an extra IT? Death Strikes and Self Healing is all that BDK tank has, the more u do it the better it is. How often do u even use Death Grip, DND, Death Coil when u tank bosses? How much hit do u even have?

ITEMIZATION.
Cloak 44hit, Ring 55hit, Gloves 69hit, Legs OR Helm 85hit, total of 253 hit.
U can also use Cryptmaker for total of 352 hit rating which is 13.42% spell hit.
On top of that u can use couple of 10hit10stamina gems to reach 14% hit which is more than enough with a shadow priest in a raid for example. So again u DONT need full 3/3 Virluence.
And even if u reach only 10-11% spell hit total (talents not included) u wont miss every 2nd Icy Touch, u will miss 1 out of 10 Icy Touches, or even less.

http://imgur.com/a/e6Gy0
2 posible item builds.
One with Glorenzelg works better on curent state of warmane since u can cap expertise with 22 rating. If expertise was Retail Like, it would be pointless using any Expertise items as a tank since u cant EVER cap it, so it all goes to RNG.
313 hit = 11.93% spell hit chance
348 hit = 13.27% spell hit chance

if by all means u identify main tanking by standing in one ****ing spot and doing nothing except ur "rotation" im out of this ****ing conversation. go stand there like a training dummie doing 1234.

****ing itemization, my eyes. so now to get spell hit u will sacrifice EHP? if it seems fine by your standarts of weekly 5/12 pug raider standarts, its fine, i guess, for you