1. You got vigilance and you can put this on main tank --> he gets 3% less damage + your taunt will be on 0 seconds, meaning you can taunt every mob easily + you get some nice threat.
    This is probably one of the dumbest advice i've ever read.

    All you achieve by doing this is reduce your maintanks threat by 10/15%. Why would you ever want to do that?

  2. Its not a bad advice at all. MT shouldnt have any trouble with threat in proper raids. Only on paper it looks like its bad (like how that %2 threat enchant looks nice on paper while almost have no use.) yet in practise, its good.

  3. Its not a bad advice at all. MT shouldnt have any trouble with threat in proper raids. Only on paper it looks like its bad (like how that %2 threat enchant looks nice on paper while almost have no use.) yet in practise, its good.
    What part about it is actually useful? Make an example. 3% is obsolete and all you gain is being able to spam taunt every 1.5s which is useless 99% of the time.

    And wonder what qualifies as a proper raid to you. In pugs threat is usually not an issue because dps is garbage to begin with. Any proper raid I've raided in threat was quite tight for mages and fury, especially on stuff like raging spirits.
    I also wonder why glyph of salvation isn't commonly used as protpala - hey, it's just 20% threat. Not like that's an issue, right?

  4. What part about it is actually useful? Make an example. 3% is obsolete and all you gain is being able to spam taunt every 1.5s which is useless 99% of the time.

    And wonder what qualifies as a proper raid to you. In pugs threat is usually not an issue because dps is garbage to begin with. Any proper raid I've raided in threat was quite tight for mages and fury, especially on stuff like raging spirits.
    I also wonder why glyph of salvation isn't commonly used as protpala - hey, it's just 20% threat. Not like that's an issue, right?
    First of all, you dont need to be bis to tank endgame content, most tanks are already geared beyond tanking minimum and better items just further increases the success chances by minor amounts, like that %3, which isnt necessary for success but they still improves the odds.

    And fury threat is never an issue except on target switches and mage threat is already handled by salvations, and its only because they keep attacking the lk while you are not building any extra threat, and that salvation glyph is op for pally, as pallies dont have that much active defensives compared to others. I occasionally use it on lod and halion already WITHOUT losing aggro, the only case of losing aggro is incase someone taunted recently and made big threat. And if you gonna talk about pugs, you can just ignore everything, if dmg is **** from dps, it means you dont do any boss that matters, all icc10n/hc icc25/rs25n boss damages are garbage.

  5. First of all, you dont need to be bis to tank endgame content, most tanks are already geared beyond tanking minimum and better items just further increases the success chances by minor amounts, like that %3, which isnt necessary for success but they still improves the odds
    Your Nr.2 priority after survivability is maximizing threat. Not sure how reducing your maintanks threat by 10% is worth anything which does not improve survivability - or do your "proper engame content raids" not include a disco priest or protpala? All you gain is a no-cd taunt. Nothing else.

    And fury threat is never an issue except on target switches and mage threat is already handled by salvations, and its only because they keep attacking the lk while you are not building any extra threat, and that salvation glyph is op for pally, as pallies dont have that much active defensives compared to others. I occasionally use it on lod and halion already WITHOUT losing aggro, the only case of losing aggro is incase someone taunted recently and made big threat. And if you gonna talk about pugs, you can just ignore everything, if dmg is **** from dps, it means you dont do any boss that matters, all icc10n/hc icc25/rs25n boss damages are garbage.
    First you're claiming threat is never an issue and then your first sentence already includes exceptions. Great start.

    Then you continue with explaining how you end up, once again, "occasionally" doing something which is again followed up by another exception of "threat is never an issue".

    So final conclusion: I'm still waiting for a proper point of why reducing your offtanks taunt cd to 0 is worth permanently reducing your maintanks threat by 10%.

  6. It was your claim first place that %3 is nothing, not mine. And building more than enough threat is only an overkill, it will only let you sleep for a bit if you decide to stop pressing buttons. You are not a dps and going 10k tps to 11k tps while the best dps is doing 9k tps wont change anything, you wont clear the raid faster or more efficently.

    Word juggling doesnt make a case, these exceptions are situational and mostly not cause of tank or tank' tps. With or without %10 reduction, any delay of md/tot/dispel can cause threat issues. And for salvation glyph case, even a ****ty dps can steal aggro as I explained, if he/she taunted recently before the tank uses the salvation glyph. So nice straw man try.

    Your only valid point is that, most raids will override the bonus but a protection paladin isnt a must and endgame guilds not always go with disc, its just easy mode for healers and people like to challenge themselves without those absorbs.

  7. It was your claim first place that %3 is nothing, not mine. And building more than enough threat is only an overkill, it will only let you sleep for a bit if you decide to stop pressing buttons. You are not a dps and going 10k tps to 11k tps while the best dps is doing 9k tps wont change anything, you wont clear the raid faster or more efficently.
    My claim "3% is nothing" is based on your
    Its not a bad advice at all. MT shouldnt have any trouble with threat in proper raids.
    Which is starting with "proper raids" and there should never be an issue with threat in the first place. Especially during targets swaps you make an exception already - which happens how often during lod? 7 times at least due to ragings spawning. Usually handled by setting MD/ToTs, which most often are barely enough or require lowered dps by some unless you have excess rogues/hunters.

    Word juggling doesnt make a case, these exceptions are situational and mostly not cause of tank or tank' tps. With or without %10 reduction, any delay of md/tot/dispel can cause threat issues. And for salvation glyph case, even a ****ty dps can steal aggro as I explained, if he/she taunted recently before the tank uses the salvation glyph. So nice straw man try.
    First it's "proper raids" and now it's bootleg-speedkill or challenge-comps which don't run a disc or protpala, or DPS taunting a boss (lol). This isn't word juggling or "straw man tries". It's simply using your own words you provided. Apparently you don't like being pointed out when your arguments don't line up. But nice attempt.

    Your only valid point is that, most raids will override the bonus but a protection paladin isnt a must and endgame guilds not always go with disc, its just easy mode for healers and people like to challenge themselves without those absorbs.
    Ironically I've provided a valid point. Your entire argumentation changes from attempting to be based on "proper comps" to running a crippled comp for a "challenge" while proving your points useless without me doing anything.

  8. Vigilance 3% is mutually exclusive with gbos. Casting vigilance on the MT while gbos is active will simply reduce threat output, nothing more.

  9. Proper raid and ideal comps are different things, to most, bringing a warrior from start is not ideal to most. And first part of ragings are easier to handle than the second part ones and its still up to delay of md/tot/dispels. And dps can taunt the boss incase **** happens, tank dies, boss rushes to someone and some far away dps takes the aggro to save the person, I only pointed out the possibilities which can rarely occur. And yes what you do is straw man, taking specific "not threat related" points and attack them like they are the issues of threat. And aside from bringing an extra disac, prot pally provides nothing unique to raid except %3 when theres not a disc, disc can be a must but not the pally.

  10. Welp, vigilance is good tool to use on top/highest threat DPS to lower it, thus helping MT.
    Also, PWarr is great for OTing due to [Safeguard] talent (30% dmg reduction for 8 seconds, best external defensive in while game).
    3% DR is a joke. Taunt resets are aswel (in serious raiding, if you have to keep taunting for 3+ seconds, raid is already fcked up, because target of vigilance and few melee guys already dead)

  11. Proper raid and ideal comps are different things, to most, bringing a warrior from start is not ideal to most. And first part of ragings are easier to handle than the second part ones and its still up to delay of md/tot/dispels. And dps can taunt the boss incase **** happens, tank dies, boss rushes to someone and some far away dps takes the aggro to save the person, I only pointed out the possibilities which can rarely occur. And yes what you do is straw man, taking specific "not threat related" points and attack them like they are the issues of threat. And aside from bringing an extra disac, prot pally provides nothing unique to raid except %3 when theres not a disc, disc can be a must but not the pally.
    My only question was what you achieve with lowering your maintanks threat by 10%. You started to claim threat is never an issue following it up with exceptions, thereby weakening your own claim. Heck you even jumped on the use of glyph of salvation having no flaws by claiming you use it and never faced issues - following it up once again with an exception to your own claim.

    So in short: Your entire argumentation is a joke due to being based on either useless (3% DR) or being beyond niche points (like the ability to spam taunts as offtank) and you simply can't handle that. Not uncommon. Some simply can't accept they're wrong and attempt to cover that with using even weaker arguments (like "challenge comps"). Maybe it's time to just accept sometime which is bad on paper is 99% of the time also **** to do in practice.
    Anyway - not worth repeating myself beyond this point. Maybe you're able to understand what i'm trying to tell, most likely you're going to refuse by default though. As long as you enjoy challenging yourself (or your raid) by playing sub-optimal that's also fine for me.

  12. No one claimed to use vigilance on mt just for threat reduction. I still claim that threat is never an issue in proper raid, those exceptions I already explained are can happen only due fails, not cause of threat reduction which was the original idea. And about salvo glyph, it is you who brought it here to strenghten your claim on main topic and I just pointed out that using that glyph is op and how it can fail. While you are prolly scared to use it even one time, Im freely using that multiple times especially while tanking shadow realm.

    Lastly, going without disc is not a uncommon thing and not that big challenge and its not created me, 4 heals with disc feels like **** on lod while playing as healer or as rsham (the only healer I played.). Well, its your own poison to make me repeat as you claim that you do it yourself, you kept nitpicking my sentences even though I explained more than once what was going on.

  13. I was prot tank in the past (when I still played wow) and I was raiding with people who were doing lod / bane runs, ruby and so on. Tanked most of icc25 hc bosses as 6.1k gs t10 so still not bis. I also had some of the worst trinkets in the game but later got a better ones.

    You can solo tank sindragosa 10/25 normal easily (if the group is good and have burst), heroic is fine you just have to utilize the tank changing tactic. Lich king 10 hc is okay, 25 as well.

    You got vigilance and you can put this on main tank --> he gets 3% less damage + your taunt will be on 0 seconds, meaning you can taunt every mob easily + you get some nice threat.

    As far as tanking goes, I noticed that bosses parried my attacks way too much. I had 27 expertise and I spam heroic strike when I have rage. Around 60% of my attacks get parried LOL, its insane and I don't know why. This was played this year.

    You can survive even soul reaper if you time your cd's good. WIth t10 and proper glyphs, you can have cd every 30 seconds. Fun class for 1v1 in open world, can kill even paladin tank if you know how to duel, good for soloing old content as your revenge is going to deal around 13-18k crit. Just niche class with some pros/cons. I definitely liked it.

    Was this with or without 30% buff.

  14. This is probably one of the dumbest advice i've ever read.

    All you achieve by doing this is reduce your maintanks threat by 10/15%. Why would you ever want to do that?
    No it steals his threat, really great for aoe-tanking as prot warrior when your other tank is a dk and you're tryna tank trash mobs. Terrible idea for tanking bosses

  15. Welp, vigilance is good tool to use on top/highest threat DPS to lower it, thus helping MT.
    Also, PWarr is great for OTing due to [Safeguard] talent (30% dmg reduction for 8 seconds, best external defensive in while game).
    3% DR is a joke. Taunt resets are aswel (in serious raiding, if you have to keep taunting for 3+ seconds, raid is already fcked up, because target of vigilance and few melee guys already dead)
    safegaurding your MT also redirects all attacks to you, which is quite moronic if he's maintanking and you're tanking something. You effectively are taunting the boss off him at this point, and don't forget the threat reduction it hits the tank with. Might aswell have paladins cast salvation with glyph on the tank.


    Edit: Why was this 3 month old thread necro'd by some bafoon who bumped it just so he could talk **** to me?

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