1. May 31, 2021  

    Looking for pointers on Enh “frostmourne”

    Hey guys this is my first season on warmane and I decided to roll an enh shammy.

    There is a lot of different opinions on this class and I am looking for advice.

    My main goal was to go more for spellhance but it’s becoming more of a “I take what I can get situation”

    Ideally I was looking for a spellpower main hand and going for double flame tongue which does very well.. I also planned on going for spell power items in the rings/trinkets/ neckpiece and cape. Well due to how quickly the seasons are it’s been more of a priority on item level.

    Which brings me to a bit of a dilemma my guild seems perfectly fine with me rolling on what gear I want. I have come into winning the weapon calamity’s grasp. Now it’s a vastly different weapon than the 213 spell power weapon I was using . So what the heck do I do?

    https://armory.warmane.com/character/Shambawamba/Frostmourne/summary
    Edited: May 31, 2021 Reason: Adding link

  2. May 31, 2021  
    (carrying fishing pole atm?)
    Wraith strike is BiS, while being lower item level than calamity. If you had other 213 weapon with sp (like kt10 mace) idk, try that and see yourself.
    Change minning to tailo/jwc
    You have engineering, put nitro boots on your boot instead of tuskar vitality.
    You are not supposed to gem stamina (chest, belt). Meta gem can and should be activated with a prismatic gem (+6 stats, its value is amazing for enha)
    Alter your talents, enha tier1: from 5/5 ancestral knowledge to 2/5, put 3 point into enhancing totems.
    As for how the offparts go-with sp or agi+ap; take whatver has higher ilvl (unless arp/spirit), rn big upgrades are valor back/ring (agi).
    Edited: May 31, 2021

  3. June 7, 2021  
    Why u take SP weapons if they base damage will drop ur stormstrike and all ur melee swings to basically nothing?

  4. June 7, 2021  
    It doesn't drop stormstrike/melee swings to basically nothing.

  5. June 8, 2021  
    How is that? Stormstrike and melee are weapon damage based abilities and spell power weapons have around half weapon damage compared to melee dps 1h

  6. June 8, 2021  
    It's funny how you keep on repeating 'spell power weapons' and still ask 'but what those SPELL POWER weapons have, that would offset lower weapon dmg?'
    [joking]idk, and why not just wear 2hander: does it not have a superior weapon dmg? Is stormstrike and melee not based on weapon damage? 2hander enha so good....[/joking]
    Edited: June 8, 2021

  7. If you calculate mid dmg from a 2h, for example 284 ilvl it is 1239 while 2 1h it is 688 x 2 = 1376 so pretty simillar so far, but if you do for spell power mace it is 304 x 2 = 608 or 304 + 668 = 972 if you going with some other 1h. So apart from sarcastic jokes im actually interested in understanding how this spell enhancement shaman works bcause im lvl up 1 right now :D so thanks if anyone can clarify that for me

  8. Why u take SP weapons if they base damage will drop ur stormstrike and all ur melee swings to basically nothing?
    You understand that Stormstrike is around 5% by your total damage done to even take its damage into consideration. Not the damage by Stormstrike is important here but the consequences from the ability:

    1. Nature damage increase
    2. Chance to give MW stacks
    3. Proc your weapon imbues -> Chance for WF outside of its icd and 100% chance for Flametongue.

    How is that? Stormstrike and melee are weapon damage based abilities and spell power weapons have around half weapon damage compared to melee dps 1h
    Here is the thing. About 55% from total damage done is weapon damage based. This includes melee attacks, Stormstrike and Windfury (Lava Lash as well but since spellhance is using normal 2.6s in Off Hand I remove it from the equation). As a spellhance shaman you basically transfer part of this damage into rest of your damage which is spell based. This is the reason why both builds perform nearly identical. Spellhance shaman also uses 2 x Flametongue imbues. Flametongue damage does not depends on weapon damage but your base weapon speed and spell power. If you check the proper calculation you will find that FLametongue does nearly identical damage on 2.6s Havoc against 1.8s Royal if you test both weapons separately because of the massive amount of SP the mace provides. That being said, Flametongue does more damage per second on Royal than Havoc because of obviously much faster mace (again if you test them separately). On top of that there exists a bug at the moment which basically makes Stormstrike to proc double Flametongue damage (instead of single proc) if your MH is imbued with Flametongue. If your both hands are imbued with Flametongue, Stormstrike procs 3 Flametongues (instead of 2).

    If you calculate mid dmg from a 2h, for example 284 ilvl it is 1239 while 2 1h it is 688 x 2 = 1376
    While 2H enhancement sucks really badly in WotLK, just for the sake of your math you probably forget one really important fact -> You have 50% damage penalty on off Hand which makes your calculation not even close to the truth.

    Edit: And just because the thread is about Frostmourne the logic is basically same. You just have to inform yourself a bit more with all pros and cons about both builds.
    Edited: June 10, 2021

  9. Spell power ench is 100% viable (imho its even better then normal AP ench). I played it on Sunwell and was in top 3 dps in almost every raid. The main dmg spell is Nova - invest everything in it. Every talent, glyph, spam it on CD (every 3s). Second dmg spell is Shield, make sure you have it up 100% od the time, you will eat through the orbs really quick.

    Equip:
    Prio no. 1 Is HIT!!! Ignore haste, hit gives you sooo much more. I was completly ignoring haste untill i reached hit HARD CAP - 100% hit with dual wielding (+27% hit from rating... welp 26% bcz Drenai... sadly the armory does not show hit rating, but you can see it on the gear).
    Prio no. 2 is crit... Lightning shield cannot crit, but Nova can... and how I said Nova is most important spell. Also crits from Flametongue weapon counts as spell crits for procing that 9% bonus crit that will proc bonus Attack speed...
    After you have 100% melee hit chance go for haste.

    About the weapon - go for as quick weapon as possible (ofc. spell power caster in main hand... off hands are sadly only attack power... so just some quick dagger with hit/crit/haste), you really dont care about weapon dmg, all you need is more Flametongue and Lightning Shield procs.

    Disadvantage: mana comsumption! Nova costs 900 and you have to cast it every 3s... also Magma totem is really expensive and you have to have it up all the time (its much more dps the the other fire totem, even for single target). But all you need is somebody with replenishment talent or Judge of Wisdom on the enemy - you have ****load of dmg instances, so you generate mana extremly quick with it.

    Rotation:
    Flame Shock... and then just spam this macro:
    /startattack
    #showtooltip
    /castsequence reset=combat/alt/6 Magma Totem, Fire Nova, Stormstrike, Fire Nova, Earth Shock, Fire Nova, Lightning Shield, Fire Nova, Flame Shock, Fire Nova, Stormstrike, Fire Nova, Earth Shock, Lightning Shield

    Its 20s long macro (bcz totem last 20s)... its just Nova every 3s, Shock every 6s, Storm every 9s and shield when it fits... and ofc bolt or chain when its instant cast...

    Link to armory: https://sunwell.pl/armory/Frosthold/Meone (the second talent tree... the first one was just to test Lava Lash... but it sux soooo much, never use Lava Lash, its waste of global CD)... the server died just when we got to LK :(
    I was looking for some DPS screenshots, but sadly dont have much... all I have are few from early ToC runs when i was doing over 10k dps on Impaler. Also its still really bad gear - I was unlucky on ICC drops :(.

    Btw I really love this build, but I want something bit more chill this time... So im trying that 2h weapon build (i think it will be really bad... So i named myself Reallybad, i just started, you can chceck the armory).
    Edited: June 15, 2021

  10. ^ Now, that's a lot of misinformation. Points on stats, weapon speed, rotation are all wrong. I like it, as it's a very creative way of trashing a nice spec, for which you take extra effort. Why it's all wrong is explained in detail in a several enha posts on this forum; all those pointers are viable for spenha for the exact same reasons that are for the usual enha, for which fast weapons, 1-trick macro or 26% hit rating ain't any good.

  11. Welp, thats a opinion... thats nice, you can have it. The FACT is, that i was toping DPS charts with this "bad" build... from Uld to ToC and ICC... 10 or 25, normal or HC, guild run or public... always in top 5, almost always in top 2-3. ... You may say a lot of theory bull****s about it, but i DID PLAY IT and it DID WORK.

    So please, before you gonna theoreticaly explain why something does/doesnt work... go into the game and test it. If i could do it, you can too... Im not good player, anyone can test it and better players will have better results then me.

    Btw as I said I found one screen... its one of our first guild ToC 25 HC attempts (waiting for Acidmaw to spawn)... we all had similiar gear (mostly Uld and ToC 10/25 normal) ... see the other shaman there? That was normal attack power ench with same GS...




    for some reason I cant see the img here... so i just post link
    https://imgur.com/zmXLItr
    Edited: June 15, 2021

  12. i DID PLAY IT and it DID WORK.]
    But you played it on a different server.
    Your setup might work on your server but on Warmane it's suboptimal.

  13. Spell power ench is 100% viable (imho its even better then normal AP ench). I played it on Sunwell and was in top 3 dps in almost every raid. The main dmg spell is Nova - invest everything in it. Every talent, glyph, spam it on CD (every 3s). Second dmg spell is Shield, make sure you have it up 100% od the time, you will eat through the orbs really quick.

    Equip:
    Prio no. 1 Is HIT!!! Ignore haste, hit gives you sooo much more. I was completly ignoring haste untill i reached hit HARD CAP - 100% hit with dual wielding (+27% hit from rating... welp 26% bcz Drenai... sadly the armory does not show hit rating, but you can see it on the gear).
    Prio no. 2 is crit... Lightning shield cannot crit, but Nova can... and how I said Nova is most important spell. Also crits from Flametongue weapon counts as spell crits for procing that 9% bonus crit that will proc bonus Attack speed...
    After you have 100% melee hit chance go for haste.

    About the weapon - go for as quick weapon as possible (ofc. spell power caster in main hand... off hands are sadly only attack power... so just some quick dagger with hit/crit/haste), you really dont care about weapon dmg, all you need is more Flametongue and Lightning Shield procs.

    Disadvantage: mana comsumption! Nova costs 900 and you have to cast it every 3s... also Magma totem is really expensive and you have to have it up all the time (its much more dps the the other fire totem, even for single target). But all you need is somebody with replenishment talent or Judge of Wisdom on the enemy - you have ****load of dmg instances, so you generate mana extremly quick with it.

    Rotation:
    Flame Shock... and then just spam this macro:
    /startattack
    #showtooltip
    /castsequence reset=combat/alt/6 Magma Totem, Fire Nova, Stormstrike, Fire Nova, Earth Shock, Fire Nova, Lightning Shield, Fire Nova, Flame Shock, Fire Nova, Stormstrike, Fire Nova, Earth Shock, Lightning Shield

    Its 20s long macro (bcz totem last 20s)... its just Nova every 3s, Shock every 6s, Storm every 9s and shield when it fits... and ofc bolt or chain when its instant cast...

    Link to armory: https://sunwell.pl/armory/Frosthold/Meone (the second talent tree... the first one was just to test Lava Lash... but it sux soooo much, never use Lava Lash, its waste of global CD)... the server died just when we got to LK :(
    I was looking for some DPS screenshots, but sadly dont have much... all I have are few from early ToC runs when i was doing over 10k dps on Impaler. Also its still really bad gear - I was unlucky on ICC drops :(.

    Btw I really love this build, but I want something bit more chill this time... So im trying that 2h weapon build (i think it will be really bad... So i named myself Reallybad, i just started, you can chceck the armory).
    Good job dude. I rarely offend someone but congratz. You just won the award for biggest joke among shamans. Almost every sentence of yours is so wrong that I don't know where to start from. And the funny part is the way you just ran away from responsibility by typing


    Welp, thats a opinion... thats nice, you can have it. The FACT is, that i was toping DPS charts with this "bad" build... from Uld to ToC and ICC... 10 or 25, normal or HC, guild run or public... always in top 5, almost always in top 2-3. ... You may say a lot of theory bull****s about it, but i DID PLAY IT and it DID WORK.

    So please, before you gonna theoreticaly explain why something does/doesnt work... go into the game and test it. If i could do it, you can too... Im not good player, anyone can test it and better players will have better results then me.

    Btw as I said I found one screen... its one of our first guild ToC 25 HC attempts (waiting for Acidmaw to spawn)... we all had similiar gear (mostly Uld and ToC 10/25 normal) ... see the other shaman there? That was normal attack power ench with same GS...




    for some reason I cant see the img here... so i just post link
    https://imgur.com/zmXLItr
    Good job dude. You just won the award for biggest clown among shamans. Almost every sentence of yours is so wrong in the context that I don't know even where to start from. And the most funny part is the way you ran away from responsibility by typing
    Welp, thats a opinion... thats nice, you can have it. The FACT is, that i was toping DPS charts with this "bad" build... from Uld to ToC and ICC... 10 or 25, normal or HC, guild run or public... always in top 5, almost always in top 2-3. ... You may say a lot of theory bull****s about it, but i DID PLAY IT and it DID WORK.
    Not the build itself is bad or wrong but the way you introduce it. Sure it's your opinion to play with 100% hit raiting if you wish although this is also too far away from the truth neither
    Ignore haste, hit gives you sooo much more.
    is true but
    there are mechanics and way the spells work and interact each other with talents and another abilities where it's not about your OPINION but either it's TRUE or FALSE. There is NO grey zone.
    Anyway I'll keep my comment short for the sake of propriety. May be next time try to play with really skilled and experienced players and show them your way of introducing spellhance build - I'm sure you will be surprised by your results there.
    Edited: June 16, 2021

  14. Was you actulaly in the game playing it? What I said is not only an opinion - its me actualy playing it and watching the results.

    I tested haste too, it sux. Late Naxx and early Uld I had 'normal' haste items... it was bad. Then I removed haste, replaced it by pure hit rating and my dps almost dubled. Taking haste over hit or crit is mistake with this build.

    Haste does not give you much - it only reduces GCD and gives attack speed:
    GCD: you dont need that, 1.5s GCD lines up perfectly with CD of your spells. Your dmg Is mostly from Nova (you can cast it every 3s (every second GCD) anyway... It fits perfectly with Shock that you cast every 4th GCD and Stormstrike/Shield for the other every 4th GCD)

    Attack speed: thats good, you want that... but all it gives you is more hits, which is exactly the same thing that Hit rating gives you... but for 1% chance to hit you need less hit rating then for 1% extra attack speed from haste.

    And crit... you have extra bonus dmg from crits from talents, your spell crits deals 200% insted of normal 150% (or more with the meta socket you really want). Almost 100% of your dmg is spell based so 1% crit = 1% dps (little less bcz Shield cant crit, but still much more then haste).

    So yes, with this build:
    Before hit soft cap: Hit > Crit > Haste
    After soft, before hard cap: Hit = Crit > Haste
    After hit hard cap: Crit > Haste > Hit

    Yes, it was diferent server, but its still wow, same patch 99.99% mechanics are the same. I did it and it worked. Thats just a reality. I can prove it. Sunwell still exist, find few ppl that played there, lets do some raid and see it yourself. I could do the same thing on this server, but I really dont like playing the same thing again (thats the reason why I tested it in the first place... I play wow like 15years, I played almost everything... now Im trying to make wierd stuff work).

    I will try 2h weapon ench now - I played it in pvp a lot, but never in PvE. It sux, everyone says so and I think they are right... but I will try my best to make the build work.
    Edited: June 16, 2021

  15. This Gallwanoth realy claims to be god of spellhance, yet he continues to stick with "haste reduce our GCD myth"... Oh irony)
    Any spec can top any fight, it's simple - rest of raid must be worse than you.

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