1. aww website still down, is it possible to get screenshots of the pages thar are down? thx for the guide

    EDIT: MANGED TO GET IT FROM WEB ARCHIVE

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180303.../dbs-mm-guide/

    and for talent builds I used,

    wotlkdb.com/?talent#cxbZ0eVsRhzGIoguqox00b
    wotlkdb.com/?talent#cxbZzeVoRhzGIkguAox00b
    wotlkdb.com/?talent#cxbZceVoRhzGIsxuAox00b
    wotlkdb.com/?talent#cxbZceVoRhzGIoxuAoe00b
    Edited: January 19, 2020

  2. Wrong glyphs,wrong arm pen calculation for the talent builds,wrong priority list,wrong macros,wrong professions.

  3. Wrong glyphs,wrong arm pen calculation for the talent builds,wrong priority list,wrong macros,wrong professions.
    Do you mean, from the guide, or someone else post?


  4. Glyph of kshot is overrated,its only useful if your warlocks/fire mages/frost dk's are bad(which will mean that your raid is bad),or for specific fights such as Anub HC,or Yogg 0.JC and BS are the best profs,unless u are wheelchair ,then yes - go Engineering.Priority List is Serpent > Chimera > rest,unless ure using the glyph of Kshot(which u shouldnt).
    Edited: June 22, 2021

  5. What am I even reading in this thread lol

  6. He has a point or two though. Firstly the arp explanation given in the guide is wrong.

    I quote: "Now, since 10,000 armor reduces your damage by 39.63%, and the decrease in the damage reduction is equal to your increase in dps, then considering 100% ArP (0 damage reduction, or a 39.63% decrease in damage reduction) the most ArP will increase your dps is by about 40%. Therefore, this also means that ArP is most effective in the end-game raids (VoA, ICC, ToC, RS) because HC and earlier raid raid bosses have progressively less armor, which means less base damage reduction, and less maximum dps increase."

    Firstly when your target has 10k armor you can only reduce its armor by 8411 which is the Arp Cap for that armor value. Secondly as a hunter even if you face a target that has 7k armor where you can actually ignore 100% of it to strip the target of its armor completely, you don't do the amount of less physical damage reduction as extra damage since around 20% of your damage is magic in a normal tank & n spank fight. Also I never heard of bosses in lower tiers having less armor. As far as I know all bosses have the same armor value of 10642.

    About the professions: JC n Engi is bis. Not entirely sure though what's best. For shorter fights probably Engineering. The longer the fight goes the better BS becomes.

    Also movement speed isn't necessarely a dps loss. It can even be a great dps gain if you play smartly and weave in an auto hit on the boss inbetween your gcds and your auto shot cd as auto shot and auto hit don't share a common cd in wotlk. Even better when you can place an explosive trap on the boss which brings me to my next point.

    Two bis glyphs are without question serpent sting + steady shot. Yet as a third I nowadays play with the Explosive Trap glyph and the following specc: https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#cxb...GIsxuAox0c:Lfi I have a draenei in my group though. I found the Explosive Trap glyph to be doing a hefty amount of dps. In that regards I think Engi is best profession overall even as you can sprint into the boss quicker to lay your explosive trap.

  7. Ok here we go:
    B. ''Marksman is your top spec for PvE'' - MM is the best spec in ICC,because u stand still and spam steady/autos,till then survival with trap dancing(expl shot/expl trap/serpent(overall damage with noxious stings) or kshot(specific fights/bad warlocks,mages,frost dk's and raid) glyphs.

    D.''Builds'' - Survival till ICC and more specifically till u have 4 set T10.

    E.''Priority List'' For Survival : Expl shot>Kshot(under 20%) ,Explosive trap>Serpent>Multi-shot(dont even bother using aimed before ICC)>Steady
    For MM serpent>Chimera>Kshot for overall damage,or Kshot>serpent>Chimera for specific fights (Anub/Yogg 0/Putricide/Sindra).

    F.Armor Pen : Till ICC is your 3rd best stats after agility and crit(tested with Rawr/Simcraft,no matter what spec are u playing.
    In reality armor penetration becomes good after u have 50% armor penetration passively,remember its always base on THE CONTENT that u do.
    If ure playing in a fresh server,dont bother using arm pen trinkets,their proc is useless and overrated.

    G. Dropping Arcane Shot - Just play survival with expl trap glyph till ICC,or MM for specific fights that gives u damage modifier/crit modifier. In reality u should drop Arcane once u have 470 arm penetration passively,but since survival is better if u can use the trap well ... yeah.

    I. Glyphs - FOR MM: 1.Serpent 2.Steady 3.YOUR CHOICE(chimera/hawk for overall damage,or Expl trap IF u can use on CD),kshot for specific fights.
    For Survival : Expl trap,Expl Shot, Serpent/Kshot.

    J. Stats
    Agility is 2x times better than crit and armor pen for survival,and 2.5x better than attack power and haste for survival,then u switch to arm pen MM build.

    K. BiS Gear List try to get the highest agility/crit/armor pen items

    L. Gems - Agility or agility/crit(if the bonus is really good(6+ or more agility,orange usually)).

    M. Professions - JC is the best by far / BS is the second best(stats wise,think about why LUL).

    N. Macros - Kripp macros video from 2009.


    Edit : GZ u become a better hunter.
    Edit: If u want more info about anything u can ask here,thanks.
    Edited: June 18, 2023

  8. Sounds to me like a new guide is in order, instead of bumping an old and dead one.

  9. He has a point or two though. Firstly the arp explanation given in the guide is wrong.


    About the professions: JC n Engi is bis. Not entirely sure though what's best. For shorter fights probably Engineering. The longer the fight goes the better BS becomes.

    Also movement speed isn't necessarely a dps loss. It can even be a great dps gain if you play smartly and weave in an auto hit on the boss inbetween your gcds and your auto shot cd as auto shot and auto hit don't share a common cd in wotlk. Even better when you can place an explosive trap on the boss which brings me to my next point.

    Two bis glyphs are without question serpent sting + steady shot. Yet as a third I nowadays play with the Explosive Trap glyph and the following specc: https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#cxb...GIsxuAox0c:Lfi I have a draenei in my group though. I found the Explosive Trap glyph to be doing a hefty amount of dps. In that regards I think Engi is best profession overall even as you can sprint into the boss quicker to lay your explosive trap.
    There's always been a constant debate regarding movement speed in PvE ever since wotlk was live. There's no real way of determining how well it scales but every important end-game fight requires some movement and there's always gonna be a mechanic that's gonna force you to move (defile, combustion or consumption, ooze target/puddles etc). Even with disengage, having an extra nitro boots means you can squeeze a bit more damage before being forced to move by a mechanic + you can play it a bit riskier. You don't have to spread or start running instantly knowing that you have nitro boots off cooldown. This debate was mainly on Tuskar's vitality vs Icewalker. The haste from the gloves does outweigh the stats from BS on a short fight tho.

    And you're correct about glyphs. Serpent+Steady+Explosive is optimal on bosses where you can trap without losing auto attacks (or at least not too many). For every other boss you play Serpent+Steady+Kill Shot.

    And manqalek has a point, a lot of mistakes in the guide.

  10. Volley is arcane dmg so it doesnt scale with arp.

  11. wtf are people saying here holy **** im getting eye cancer;

    1- kill shot isnt ****ing useless, its your highest damaging spell per gcd
    2- jc and engi are indeed the best profs for pve no ****ing argument here; engi gives you 340haste on 15/60 which is the highest dps prof ever, now add nitros, frag belt, 1 extra agi enchant on cloak, parachute, its simply the best, now for 2nd JC is the best as if you arent a draenei/play on horde, using a 34 hit gem will put you at EXACTLY hit cap, now you SHOULD be using 2x 34agi gems as this will put you at 1403arp at bis compared to 1405 if you use 2x 34arp gems, giving you 2 extra stats.
    3- for glyphs, trap spec outperforms by a long shot the non-trap spec on aoe fights such as LOD/RS which are the 2 fights that matters in this ****ing expansion, ive had times where my traps themself would do 800k-1m dmg on lod, and on RS25HC trap is LITERALLY your 2nd spell in damage.
    4- kill shot glyph is ONLY worth on fights where u get constant flow of adds/multiple kill-shotable targets, otherwise hawk outperforms kill shot because with a full bis raid, you will almost never kill shot 3 times, you kill shot max 2 times on execute.
    5- BS is not better than engi/jc
    6- stop tryna ****ing minmax survival, who cares about ****-tier specs in endgame.

  12. You dont have to be that far from the boss to dps as hunter, being at deadrange is perfectly fine, no need of nitro/disengage (these are better saved for oh **** moments depending on bosses/phases, especially the nitro boots.) to lay exp. trap once you practised enough to move correctly, including lk p1 with shadow traps.
    Edited: April 6, 2021

  13. I agree with mercy on the new guide is in line. Also what the fck did i just read about armor pen. Did you even finish middle school?...

    Lets say a target has has 40% physical damage reduction. That means instead of 100 dmg its going to take 60.
    Now lets assume that you reduce all of it(you dont but lets assume it). That means now the target takes 100 dmg from the same hit. That means it took 40 more damage than from you not having armor penetration. This means an increase of 40/60 ~= 66,67%. So NO, armor penetration will not increase your dps by how much the armor is reducing your dps.

    Now thats all an assumption, in reality you do not reduce all of the target's armor due to the armor calculation formula and Not all your damage is physical. As a hunter, especially if you place explosive traps(which you should) you do aprox 30% magical damage in the end game(DONT DROP ARCANE SHOT, OFC YOU WILL NEED TO USE IT WHEN YOU MOVE SOMETIME....just dont prio it over steady), thus making armor pen even less usefull. It is still worth getting it though since even this reduced damage increase is better than other stats when you can get a lot of it.

    Anyway, i just had to say it since i didnt see anyone commenting on it.... So much misinformation these days its painful

  14. May 15, 2021  
    1- Kshot its your second highest dps ability,highest one is Chimera + Chimera serpent and the bleeds from Chimera.
    2- Unless u're hard capped with armor penetration BS>Engineering(even for survival,since LnL is bugged).
    3-Glyphs are steady and serpent obviously for MM ,and explosive trap+expl shot for survival ...
    4- Glyph of kshot loses value against frost dk/aff/demo lock/fire mage and other hunters in the raid.IT DOES NOT GIVE U HIGHER VALUE ON ADDS ( https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...era-Shot/page2 ) - read what kripparrian said.
    5-JC/BS for survival,same goes for MM(my choice),the haste might give u higher burst,BUT only when ure hard capped(since at that point u already ignore most of the bosses armor(with sunder/faerie fire/shattering)
    6-Expl trap damage on crit wont be fixed(feelsbadman).(''inteded'' btw)
    7.Survival IS the best spec up to ICC,play MM for the 10% aura.
    Edited: June 18, 2023 Reason: YEP

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