WotLK Torment of the Weak Snares and Slows

[Baleroc]

As some of you are aware, the BugTracker listed Torment of the Weak ("ToTW"), as Fixed. However, there are some issues regarding triggering this effect.

The purpose of this thread is to create a list of every possible snare and slow from every class to send to Midna, the developer on Wrath of the Lich King class fixes, to ensure that this fix is properly applied. I realise it is difficult to identify what should or should not be working, so I decided that to fix this spell it would be best to create a list that can be sent.

Effectively, a list of snare's/slows will be added below, and when everyone is satisfied that these should trigger 'Torment of the Weak' they will then be sent to the developer to ensure these spells are fixed to trigger Torment of the Weak. Feel free to add any suggestions to any spell that should be added/removed from this list.

Note: this is for Wrath of the Lich King.

Definition of Snare:
Snare effects are a form of crowd control that reduce a victim's movement speed, preventing him from effectively maneuvering in combat. There are 2 types of snares: area-based snares, such as Frost Trap or Earthbind Totem, and debuff-based snares (also called Slows), such as Crippling Poison or Piercing Howl. It is most useful to ranged classes when fighting opponents who only possess melee attacks, allowing them to kite the opponent. Snares are also useful to prevent enemies from fleeing to safety or running for help (in instances especially). - http://wowwiki.wikia.com/Snare

Spell List:

Death Knight

1. Desecration
2. Chains of Ice
3. Frost Fever (Chillblains)
4. Icy Touch
5. Improved Icy Touch

Druid

1. Feral Charge
2. Infected Wounds
3. Typhoon
4. Hurricane

Hunter

1. Ice Trap
2. Frost Trap
3. Wing Clip
4. Concussive Shot
5. Freezing Trap
6. Snake Trap
7. Concussive Barrage - combined with Chimera Shot and Multi Shot

Mage

1. Frostbolt
2. Cone of Cold
3. Frostfire Bolt
4. Frost Armor
5. Shattered Barrier
6. Blast Wave
7. Slow
8. Improved Blizzard, when combined with Blizzard
9. Permafrost
10. Chilled to the Bone
11. Ice Armor

Paladin

1. Avenger's Shield
2. Judgements of the Just

Priest

1. Mind Flay

Rogue

1. Crippling Poison
2. Deadly Throw
3. Blade Twisting
4. Waylay

Shaman

1. Earthbind Totem
2. Frost Shock
3. Frostband Weapon

Warlock

1. Curse of Exhaustion
2. Aftermath - with Conflagate
3. Glyph of Shadowflame
4. Improved Fear (Affliction)

Warrior

1. Hamstring
2. Piercing Howl
3. Shield Bash
4. Thunderclap

Changes
Waylay has been added. Reason: it is a slowing spell.
Shadowflame Glyph has been added. Reason: causes Shadowflame to have a slow effect.
Improved Fear has been added. Reason: causes Fear to have a slow effect.
Slow has been added. Reason: it is a slowing spell.
Hurricane has been added. Reason: it is a slowing spell.
Blizzard has been added. Reason: it is a slowing spell.
Freezing Trap has been added. Reason: it is a slowing spell.
Snake Trap has been added. Reason: it is a slowing spell.
Thunderclap has been added. Reason: it is a snare.
Concussive Barrage has been added. Reason: it is a slowing spell.
Improved Blizzard has been added. Reason: it is a slowing spell.
Permafrost has been added. Reason: it is a slowing spell.
Chilled to the Bone has been added. Reason: it is a slowing spell.
Improved Thunderclap has been added. Reason: it is a slowing effect.
Ice Armor has been added. Reason: it is a slowing effect.
Judgements of the Just has been added. Reason: it is a slowing effect.
Icy Touch has been added. Reason: it is a snare effect for attack speed.
Improved Icy Touch has been added. Reason: additional snare effect.

Chaos Wave has been removed. Reason: Cataclysm spell.
Entangling Roots has been removed. Reason: It is a root spell.
Nature's Grasp has been removed. Reason: It is a root spell.
Frost Nova has been removed. Reason: It is a root spell.
Judgement of Justice has been removed. Reason: It is a stun effect.

Last Updated: 14 June 2015

[jendah]

Attack speed slows like "Thunder Clap" (warrior) should trigger it as well, right?

[Sanecorez]

Mage - Slow (arcane talent)


What is Chaos Wave?

For Warlock the slows are Curse of Exhaustion, Conflag, Glyph of Shadowflame and Improved Fear (Affliction talent).

And Judgement of Justice is not a snare/slow. It prevents you from going faster than your normal movement speed. It does not slow you however.

[Sanecorez]

Rogue - Waylay (sublety talent)

[Baleroc]

Mage - Slow (arcane talent)


What is Chaos Wave?

For Warlock the slows are Curse of Exhaustion, Conflag, Glyph of Shadowflame and Improved Fear (Affliction talent).

And Judgement of Justice is not a snare/slow. It prevents you from going faster than your normal movement speed. It does not slow you however.

My mistake. Chaos Wave is a cataclysm talent. Conflagate only applies with Aftermath. Secondly regarding Judgement of Justice, it is classed as a snare, although not classified by ingame mechanics since it limits movement speed. Source: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/Snare

However, since it is not classed as a snare by the game mechanics, then it should be removed from the list.

[Mahourai]

Attack speed slows like "Thunder Clap" (warrior) should trigger it as well, right?

Attack speed slows should indeed work with TTW.

[Baleroc]

The guide has been updated with a solid number of class spells, talents, and glyphs that should trigger the effect Torment of the Weak ("ToTW"); feedback is welcome.

What should be added or removed from this guide, and why.

[DarkenedHue]

Minor thing but it's Torment the Weak, not Torment OF the Weak :P

Played around with a TTW spec in an ICC25n with another mage who was FFB and so far it seems that TTW is indeed pulling out ahead like it should be. Main downsides, however, are the 3% higher hit cap (I wasn't even hit capped in that ICC), as well as the insanely absurd mana cost that you will definitely feel (Fireball costs nearly 40% more mana than Frostfire Bolt).

To roughly compare the two specs, this is what it more or less comes down to:

Both specs have the following:
- 6% more damage for their respective spammable spells (Spell Impact for TTW, Piercing Ice for FFB)

Where they differ is more interesting.

FFB has the following:
- Icy Veins
- Significantly reduced mana cost of rotation
- 3% hit (precision)

TTW on the other hand has:
- Notably higher DPS of spammable spell (while buffed by TTW, Fireball's overall DPCT surpasses that of FFB, and the spell has a lower casting time when glyphed too)
- 12% more damage on all Pyroblasts

Another relevant consideration would be Focus Magic, since it looks like that's on the agenda for developers. However, even when fixed, its benefit might not even be unique to TTW mages. On retail for a period you could Focus Magic someone in your TTW spec, and then afterward swap to your FFB spec and still keep the buff up with it working properly.

All in all it looks like TTW should be rightfully ahead on sustained DPS. The only way FFB would pull out ahead is if the fight were short enough for Icy Veins to be able to make that much of a difference.

[Baleroc]

Minor thing but it's Torment the Weak, not Torment OF the Weak :P

Played around with a TTW spec in an ICC25n with another mage who was FFB and so far it seems that TTW is indeed pulling out ahead like it should be. Main downsides, however, are the 3% higher hit cap (I wasn't even hit capped in that ICC), as well as the insanely absurd mana cost that you will definitely feel (Fireball costs nearly 40% more mana than Frostfire Bolt).

To roughly compare the two specs, this is what it more or less comes down to:

Both specs have the following:
- 6% more damage for their respective spammable spells (Spell Impact for TTW, Piercing Ice for FFB)

Where they differ is more interesting.

FFB has the following:
- Icy Veins
- Significantly reduced mana cost of rotation
- 3% hit (precision)

TTW on the other hand has:
- Notably higher DPS of spammable spell (while buffed by TTW, Fireball's overall DPCT surpasses that of FFB, and the spell has a lower casting time when glyphed too)
- 12% more damage on all Pyroblasts

Another relevant consideration would be Focus Magic, since it looks like that's on the agenda for developers. However, even when fixed, its benefit might not even be unique to TTW mages. On retail for a period you could Focus Magic someone in your TTW spec, and then afterward swap to your FFB spec and still keep the buff up with it working properly.

All in all it looks like TTW should be rightfully ahead on sustained DPS. The only way FFB would pull out ahead is if the fight were short enough for Icy Veins to be able to make that much of a difference.

I have tested this multiple times and it does not work as intended. Firstly, this only works with specific classes casting debuffs on the boss that trigger this effect. Yesterday I joined a raid with Warrior's, Rogue's, Paladin's, Druids, Shaman's and more. Torment the Weak had applied on the boss - I have an addon that determines this - but my dps was not being increased. Prior 25 man raid I was doing 25k dps, then this one I was doing 15k dps with the same spec, so clearly the buff does not apply.

To emphasise this further, try and run a 10 man raid with Torment the Weak triggering. I have done 3 types of these raids, and not once has Torment the Weak triggered even with it applied on the boss. Thus, there is an issue with it triggering for certain spells. That is why this list has been created, to allow these spells to be fixed to trigger Torment the Weak.

[DarkenedHue]

I have tested this multiple times and it does not work as intended. Firstly, this only works with specific classes casting debuffs on the boss that trigger this effect. Yesterday I joined a raid with Warrior's, Rogue's, Paladin's, Druids, Shaman's and more. Torment the Weak had applied on the boss - I have an addon that determines this - but my dps was not being increased. Prior 25 man raid I was doing 25k dps, then this one I was doing 15k dps with the same spec, so clearly the buff does not apply.

To emphasise this further, try and run a 10 man raid with Torment the Weak triggering. I have done 3 types of these raids, and not once has Torment the Weak triggered even with it applied on the boss. Thus, there is an issue with it triggering for certain spells. That is why this list has been created, to allow these spells to be fixed to trigger Torment the Weak.

You're saying that the damage increase wasn't applying for you? I just tested this here on Ragnaros on Gormok the Impaler with a Blood DK friend and his icy touch was definitely increasing fireball's damage by the correct amount. At BiS gear in ICC I was getting upwards of 41k Fireballs and Pyroblasts, numbers I've never seen as FFB. Bursted 45k on DBS with a priest's power infusion too. There's no way I would've achieved those numbers without TTW activating.

[Ihazdots]

Does this mean TTW spec is viable over FFB spec for end game raiding at BIS gear?. Anyone got some comparison data between two specs after these fixes?

[Makagodx]

You're saying that the damage increase wasn't applying for you? I just tested this here on Ragnaros on Gormok the Impaler with a Blood DK friend and his icy touch was definitely increasing fireball's damage by the correct amount. At BiS gear in ICC I was getting upwards of 41k Fireballs and Pyroblasts, numbers I've never seen as FFB. Bursted 45k on DBS with a priest's power infusion too. There's no way I would've achieved those numbers without TTW activating.

45? and u think thats normal? ignite is ****ed up if u puled this much dps

[DarkenedHue]

45? and u think thats normal? ignite is ****ed up if u puled this much dps

In BiS gear, it's difficult not to pull above 40k burst when you have all raid buffs and every spell you cast in the first 10 seconds or so is a crit.

[Makagodx]

In BiS gear, it's difficult not to pull above 40k burst when you have all raid buffs and every spell you cast in the first 10 seconds or so is a crit.

lol, u never played on working server right? this is total bul**** :)