PTR Naxx Impossible

[acdex]

25mans tend to be more of a zerg fest with mild communications, even on harder bosses.
10 Mans there is far more pressure, since one movement/mechanic will likely wipe your entire raid.

And generally if fights require someone to do something you have to invest a larger percent of the raid to do that (mind controls, kill Y etc.)

Since there's less people deaths matter more. Larger safety net on 25 man with more healers, more utility.

[Briano]

For everyone claiming the Mythic raids are sooooo harder than others, watch this video.... Between addons literally showing you everything including where to stand (Even world firsts had this arrow addon) to making a joke out of Archimonde Mythic and solo healing it on a 4 minute fight of a current endboss:

As someone who has raided at a top-tier level through all expansions, mythic raiders are much harder mechanics wise and much more tightly tuned, thus leading to a harder encounter. As we go more and more expansions deep into WoW, encounters will continue to get more difficult (From a Mythic perspective) because usually Mythic raiders are long term players and the longer you play the better you get, thus making content easier so you are forced to create more complex raid bosses, thus they are harder.

When people talk about Rag/LK/Alone in the Darkness being some of the hardest raid bosses of all time, they are speaking from relative perspective. As in, at that current time, compared to other raid content, it was a much higher difficulty increase then for example, Gorfiend to Archi is , or Mannoroth to Archi is. They aren't comparing bosses in a sandbox and saying "Oh LK hardest boss of all time" .. it is relative to the current skill of raiders.

Also, you mention addons.. are you forgetting people had AVR for ICC progression? Which is by far the most mind-numbing addon of all time. There is NO addon advantage today that can compare to it.

25mans tend to be more of a zerg fest with mild communications, even on harder bosses.
10 Mans there is far more pressure, since one movement/mechanic will likely wipe your entire raid.

It is also far easier to find 10 people than 25 people, as in any 25man, even in "hardcore" retail guilds, there will be slackers. Also, 25mans require far more communication than 10mans. What it tends to be, vs what is required are two very different things.

Besides that, it's really a fight per fight basis on which is harder for 10man vs 25man. Pairing that, with having to have more people play correctly, leads to 25mans being harder.

On top of all that, ICC 10m was downed before 25m. Also, ToGC10m was downed before 25m. Thats with 10m raiding SIGNIFICANTLY less than 25m, and still downed first.

firelands was not a joke at all on releast.at first Beth'tilac was unkillable till they nerf it.at the end of 4.2 method streamed full firelands run with people that was gear with firelands hc and they wipes like few times before they even reach ragnaros and on ragnaros there was like 6-7 more wipes.the reason why everyone think firelands is a joke is because its not final raid for the expansion and in 4.3 they nerfed it to the ground.btw i dont think there is any other raid who have been nerfed so many times as firelands.and about ragnaros vs LK will paragon well rangaros had random element that can wipe the raid and there was nothing you can do about it.thats why they keep pushing it and they had 500 wipes till they got this lucky moment and kill it.
i think method or vodka 1 of this 2 kill LK hc only 2 weeks after release but they find a bug and exploit it to get the kill so they didnt give them world first.

Ensidia did with Saronite Bomb exploit which they got banned for.

And if you DON'T count Raggnaros, firelands was one of the easiest instances of all time(relatively). Also, don't you mean Rhyolith not Bethtilac? And no, it was not "unkillable".

Firelands had a 15% nerf vs DS / ICC 35%

Also, Raggnaros Magma Geyser change was nothing to do with difficuty and because they didn't want people ot use the triforce strategy.

[BRETTDESZORNS]

Ragnaros Magma geysar came late in dragon soul btw
if they didnt want that people to use the triforce tactic they wouldve been adjusted it earlier.

[daradam]

Dude what you are trying to say you know No one killed Kael Thas prenerfed and only nihilum managed to kill Vashj while she was able to MC MT-aka all bosses were nerfed before their actuall killing

hahah you both must be insane. If you for example think that Mythic raiding is harder then for example Kael'thas or Lady Vashj and many other TBC raids. All you have to do is use stupid google, and look at dates that bosses died in past and now. How long it took top PvE to clear whole content, compared to time they clear it now.

Some examples.. top wow guilds needed 13 days ! ****ing 13 days, from release to kill nightbane in kara ! In kara!
Magtheridon died after 6 weeks from release
Lady Vashj died after wait for it... TWO and half months after they relese it.
Kael'thas died after around 4 mounts from release ! ****ing 4 months ! There was BT out before any guild in the world killed Kael'thas...yes there was next tier content update from blizzard before any guild in the world killed all bosses on previous tier content..

You have simple no idea what you are talking abouth. And remmember its was not some pugs try's. All top guilds tired it, and they all failed hard for so long.

You compare it to some streamers viewers pugs that make mythics now lol, without any problems.

So in short. Nothing in wow was harder then TBC raids.

[BRETTDESZORNS]

bosses being bugged or overtuned =/= hard

[daradam]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYXMIti8aQw Chek this video out mythic progression raiders. and l2p after that psl

[Mchaplain]

hahah you both must be insane. If you for example think that Mythic raiding is harder then for example Kael'thas or Lady Vashj and many other TBC raids. All you have to do is use stupid google, and look at dates that bosses died in past and now. How long it took top PvE to clear whole content, compared to time they clear it now.

Some examples.. top wow guilds needed 13 days ! ****ing 13 days, from release to kill nightbane in kara ! In kara!
Magtheridon died after 6 weeks from release
Lady Vashj died after wait for it... TWO and half months after they relese it.
Kael'thas died after around 4 mounts from release ! ****ing 4 months ! There was BT out before any guild in the world killed Kael'thas...yes there was next tier content update from blizzard before any guild in the world killed all bosses on previous tier content..

You have simple no idea what you are talking abouth. And remmember its was not some pugs try's. All top guilds tired it, and they all failed hard for so long.

You compare it to some streamers viewers pugs that make mythics now lol, without any problems.

So in short. Nothing in wow was harder then TBC raids.

You wish. TBC "hard" raids were actually overtuned, with simple mechanics but insane numbers. That can't be considered hard in the right way.

That may be "hard" in terms of brute force, and you must be an utter fvck to seriously think TBC was just harder.

We can use the logic that vanilla raids were the hardest because you had to have complete control over 39 ******s which all had to do their job, + then you had resistance or class stacks. Good luck doing Ouro without a ton of mages.

Wow has evolved to a point which this crap community or any other private server community will never be able to comprehend.

Bossfights lasting up to 15 minutes, sometimes even more. 15 minutes of tackling the massive amounts of mechanics which come at you, and at the same time putting out max. dps.

Whoever states that anything before LK was "the hardest" should just stay on private servers, you don't have a clue about WoW.

[Lynea]

25mans tend to be more of a zerg fest with mild communications, even on harder bosses.
10 Mans there is far more pressure, since one movement/mechanic will likely wipe your entire raid.

Definitely agree up until mythic being confined to 20 people only. People on Rag&Deathwing, still, to this day, go and do Bane (LK 10 hc) to practice hard-carrying for LoD (LK 25 hc).

[Zwox]

BTW where are the Cookie guys now? They talked like the overPROS and now disappeared or what? :D

[cabalaba]

rofl cvox, still suckin cocks

[YakumoYukari]

Thanks for digging up this thread, now I have cancer.