1. So the original guide's bis list is confusing me. It says that you go polar plate wrists if you are on Horde, presumably because of the hit loss if you take Umbrage. But even without Polar wrists the hit is fine so idk why the guide says polar are better for Horde rets over Umbrage. Can anyone clarify this? Was it due to some problems with Warmane scripting back then?
    There's 225 hit in that setup without Polar bracers. It's an alternative item offered in the event that other hit items are missing for the Horde's sake, namely Signet of Twilight and/or Apoc's. It's easy enough to disregard it, but just answering since you asked.

    I'm trying to figure out the pre-raid stuff on my retri paladin and this guide isn't helping much as the first post is very confusing. I'm stuck at 4300 gs at the moment with 3/5 Turalyon set 232 ilvl. Should I get gloves or pants or what ? What weapon should I get ? I can't get the axe from POS HC to drop :(

    What should I aim for to increase my gs so I can start being accepted into raids ?
    The lists provided here are ICC/RS bis lists, so they won't be much of use. The guide does cover stats though, which should be helpful in determining what stats you want on key items. That being said, myself and others would be happy to help you out with item choices.

    You should definitely go for your 4-piece set bonus. For a weapon, if you can manage it, get a Battered Hilt or the weapon off of Marrowgar 10 (Citadel Enforcer's Claymore). Otherwise, your next best options are going to be weapons from Trial of the Crusader. I would also ask if you have enough achievement points to earn points on the website. Because, if so, you can work towards getting a nice weapon from there if you play on Icecrown.

  2. I'm trying to figure out the pre-raid stuff on my retri paladin and this guide isn't helping much as the first post is very confusing. I'm stuck at 4300 gs at the moment with 3/5 Turalyon set 232 ilvl. Should I get gloves or pants or what ? What weapon should I get ? I can't get the axe from POS HC to drop :(

    What should I aim for to increase my gs so I can start being accepted into raids ?
    Head: T9(farmable)
    Neck: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49818 (farmable - POS Normal Tyrannus boss)
    Shoulders: T9(Farmable)
    Back: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49842 (farmable - HOR Normal Escape Event)
    Chest: T9(Farmable)
    Wrist: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40733 (farmable EOT->EOV)
    Gloves: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49855 (farmable ICC dungeons Normal trash mobs)
    Belt: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49808 (farmable POS Normal Ick boss)
    Legs: T9(Farmable)
    Feet: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40742 (farmable EOT->EOV)
    Ring1: Rep ring
    Ring2: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49812 (farmable POS Normal Ick boss)
    Trinket1: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47734 (farmable EOT)
    Trinket2: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40684 (farmable EOT->EOH)

    Weapon: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49802 (farmable POS Normal Garfrost boss)
    Libram: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47661 (farmable EOT)

    Cap, at least Hit rating. Use gems and/or alternative pieces from ICC dungeons.

    These items are with the idea: minimal RNG, you can just farm them non-stop until you get them. No lockout waiting, no gold using, no nothing like that. You should be ready for some TOC raids and stuff, if you know what you are doing you can also clear ICC10n with this gear.

    Items of note to reduce the grind by using gold:
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50453 500+ Gold
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50452 around 1000 Gold
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=42987 around 6000 Gold

    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47572 around 5000 Gold
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49906 around 7000 Gold

    There are others, tough probably those are not worth the gold, unless you foam from mouth for some GS.
    Edited: November 14, 2021


  3. Head: T9(farmable)
    Neck: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49818 (farmable - POS Normal Tyrannus boss)
    Shoulders: T9(Farmable)
    Back: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49842 (farmable - HOR Normal Escape Event)
    Chest: T9(Farmable)
    Wrist: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40733 (farmable EOT->EOV)
    Gloves: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49855 (farmable ICC dungeons Normal trash mobs)
    Belt: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49808 (farmable POS Normal Ick boss)
    Legs: T9(Farmable)
    Feet: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40742 (farmable EOT->EOV)
    Ring1: Rep ring
    Ring2: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49812 (farmable POS Normal Ick boss)
    Trinket1: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47734 (farmable EOT)
    Trinket2: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=40684 (farmable EOT->EOH)

    Weapon: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49802 (farmable POS Normal Garfrost boss)
    Libram: http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47661 (farmable EOT)

    Cap, at least Hit rating. Use gems and/or alternative pieces from ICC dungeons.

    These items are with the idea: minimal RNG, you can just farm them non-stop until you get them. No lockout waiting, no gold using, no nothing like that. You should be ready for some TOC raids and stuff, if you know what you are doing you can also clear ICC10n with this gear.

    Items of note to reduce the grind by using gold:
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50453 500+ Gold
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50452 around 1000 Gold
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=42987 around 6000 Gold

    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=47572 around 5000 Gold
    http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=49906 around 7000 Gold

    There are others, tough probably those are not worth the gold, unless you foam from mouth for some GS.
    I have most of these, with some switched for others but it still won't get me past 4400 gs. Will these get me past 4400 gs ?

    The raids you suggested aren't available as nobody wants to invite me with 4400 gs. Sadly it's a numbers game these days, despite the fact that I know what to do in the raid while some 5600 does not in some cases and wipes the raid or doesn't do their job properly but gets invited and carried nonetheless. I'll get a weapon probably from the site with voting points because I just can't get it to drop. I'm thinking either Tyrannical Beheader from POS HC or Voldrethar Blade of Oblivion from Ulduar. Both are high ilvl and very decent. Sorry to name the items like that but I don't know how to link them like you have.
    Edited: November 14, 2021

  4. Thanks. I can't afford the Battered Hilt at the moment as it's a new and only character on Icecrown. Not enough gold. It's 20k there and I've got nowhere near that much. People don't want to invite me to raids with 4400 gs to get the others you mentioned. Neither ToC or ICC just for Marrowgar even.
    I'm thinking of getting Tyrannical Beheader or Voldrethar, Dark Blade of Oblivion.
    Edited: November 14, 2021

  5. What I'd do is join some "progression" guild, where they are starting/getting ready to start ICC normals. Just pugging and like that - it will be a huge pain. Without a guild pretty much only way is to do daily RDF and weekly for EOF and buy 2 parts T10(like 2 months time) and grind Gold for some crafted stuff. Then you can maybe start to get into some pugs.

    To me best option seems to buy http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45609 for points and get that axe from POS HC or other places. Way less competition on weapons, trinkets are way harder to get.

  6. What I'd do is join some "progression" guild, where they are starting/getting ready to start ICC normals. Just pugging and like that - it will be a huge pain. Without a guild pretty much only way is to do daily RDF and weekly for EOF and buy 2 parts T10(like 2 months time) and grind Gold for some crafted stuff. Then you can maybe start to get into some pugs.

    To me best option seems to buy http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=45609 for points and get that axe from POS HC or other places. Way less competition on weapons, trinkets are way harder to get.
    Thanks! I got Edge of Ruin (2h axe) just now from TOC 5 HC though it seems mediocre with no sockets and 213 ilvl.

  7. Thanks. I can't afford the Battered Hilt at the moment as it's a new and only character on Icecrown. Not enough gold. It's 20k there and I've got nowhere near that much. People don't want to invite me to raids with 4400 gs to get the others you mentioned. Neither ToC or ICC just for Marrowgar even.
    I'm thinking of getting Tyrannical Beheader or Voldrethar, Dark Blade of Oblivion.
    you need to put some time in and farm some EOF items + TOC10 / 25 gear. Yea it's gonna take awhile but there is alot of competition for raids. That is the whole point. If you don't go out of your way to make yourself look desirable you aren't gonna get picked. You can't feel entitled about it because you know tatics. it is extremely easy to hit (at the very least) 5k without icc stuff. It's always a gamble when people are choosing for PUGs so in the chance that you may be lying about knowing tatics it is a better bet to choose someone with higher gear because they know for sure they have that and it is the only garauntee for them. There are people with 5k+ gs who have literally been farming EOF the hard way just to get into a raid and step foot inside ICC. If you don't want to do that well join a guild who is willing to take you. There is no magic option. Everyone is competing for the same thing here. If you don't have the achieve you cant expect someone to believe you that you know what you are doing, reading / watching tatics are different them doing them yourself in some cases.

  8. you need to put some time in and farm some EOF items + TOC10 / 25 gear. Yea it's gonna take awhile but there is alot of competition for raids. That is the whole point. If you don't go out of your way to make yourself look desirable you aren't gonna get picked. You can't feel entitled about it because you know tatics. it is extremely easy to hit (at the very least) 5k without icc stuff. It's always a gamble when people are choosing for PUGs so in the chance that you may be lying about knowing tatics it is a better bet to choose someone with higher gear because they know for sure they have that and it is the only garauntee for them. There are people with 5k+ gs who have literally been farming EOF the hard way just to get into a raid and step foot inside ICC. If you don't want to do that well join a guild who is willing to take you. There is no magic option. Everyone is competing for the same thing here. If you don't have the achieve you cant expect someone to believe you that you know what you are doing, reading / watching tatics are different them doing them yourself in some cases.
    It's not exactly easy to get past 5k gs. Requirements on Icecrown are higher as people tend to buy their gear with points, coins and gold. On Lordaeron with 4500ish you'd get into TOC 10 NM. On Icecrown they demand 5k+ minimum even though the content is easier as it doesn't have the custom boost from Lordaeron.

  9. It's not exactly easy to get past 5k gs. Requirements on Icecrown are higher as people tend to buy their gear with points, coins and gold. On Lordaeron with 4500ish you'd get into TOC 10 NM. On Icecrown they demand 5k+ minimum even though the content is easier as it doesn't have the custom boost from Lordaeron.
    Considering you can get 239 hardmode uldar gear for free on icecrown and after 5 days of dailies you can buy a piece of crafted TOC / BOE icc gear + the fact you can farm your BIS ring with icc rep farm 5k is literally nothing on icecrown lol. You can farm ilvl213 - 232 gear to fill every other slot just by doing FOS/POS/HOR farms. One or two pieces of t10 should even do the trick. My druid is literally geared out like that with t10 shoulders sitting at 5.2k gs, with no boe icc or TOC epics.

  10. I've been having an interesting conversation with my guildmates about that century old "retripala vs arp" debate. You see, I've always thought arp does affect these list of abilities:

    1. Auto attacks
    2. Crusader Strike
    3. Divine Storm
    4. Seal of Vengeance/Corruption 5-stack procs.

    Instant disclaimer - I'm not an arp for retri preacher or something (although I do think it's totally ok for retris to roll for the DBW if there's no one in the raid who has it on his bis list). I just like to discuss game mechanics, that's all. And I've been told that arp actually does NOT affect ANY retri ability except auto attacks. I've been told the reason for the that is Crusader Strike and Divine Storm deal only a set percentage of weapon damage. And weapon damage doesn't have anything to do with the bosses armor (yet it still can be increased with the damage increasing abilities like Avenging Wrath). As for vengeance/corruption procs it deals holy damage, not a physical one (yet I'm still pretty sure the damage itself is calculated as a physical one, then is simply converted to a holy one, so it's not affected by spell power at all).

    I decided to just test it out and created a pala on Blackrock, and simply spammed crusader strike on a dummy without arp gems (3% arp) and with gems (21% arp), no buffs, no procs, no talents. And indeed I haven't noticed any difference in damage.

    So what do you guys say - are retri weapon abilities indeed affected by arp or not? And if they are, why haven't I experienced any change in damage?

  11. Why with T10 4P bonus you give preference to Crusade Strike, and not to Hammer of Wrath??

  12. Why with T10 4P bonus you give preference to Crusade Strike, and not to Hammer of Wrath??
    I assume because HoW doesn't proc seal effects(at least it doesn't proc command),while CS does proc them,thus making CS better in tandem with the increased seal damage from the 4pc bonus.

  13. hello there, i have a 6,2+ str ret on lord named konkwistador & recently i dropped dv hc which apparently always did an average of ~350 dps less than wfs hc. this surprised me since everyone always says dv hc > wfs hc which somehow doesn't work for me. could anyone elaborate? i did tests with bok + wild + feral 5% crit

  14. Hi, I would like to ask here, because this thread is more alive then pvp one so, please, which trinkets are good for ret pvp human besides the bis ones like DV HC / WFS / even PotNL I saw somewhere...I play mainly PvE both Holy as MS in guild Lod runs (even in arenas 2s) and ret for pugs raid mostly. Because of holy 2v2 I get to 1800+, so i started to buy some pvp eq for my ret, so when i do quests, i don't get one shotted. I acquire pretty okaish pvp ret gear but I'm kinda stucked at trinkets. Currently I'm using Wrathstone, which is like mini WFS, and Tiny Abom HC. My question is , what trinkets from point shop are better then tiny Abom HC in terms of burst? I saw some interesting one like Pyrite infuser, which would keep my hit rating with rep ring and polar bear HC wrist at nicely 190 which is like 5.9% and nicen1250 AP proc even tho only for 10s.
    Other interesting for me was:
    1.dark matter
    2.Bandit's Insignia (idk how high chance to proc that arcane DMG tho)
    3.Vanquished Clutches of Yogg-Saron which gives almost 3% flat Crit, but I have no idea what does That tentacle effect.
    I'm certain that pyrite infuser / dark matter would be best choice, but idk which one should I pick. If i go for dark matter, I would have to go one more hit ring, probably Band of the Bone Colossus HC as I use this in my pve set also, because I don't have apocalypse boots yet.
    Any advice, help, opinion is appreciated.

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