It's interesting to see you say this now, when I believe what you originally said was
Do you understand my confusion? You argue that minor things like 1 item, 1 profession or w/e won't affect your gameplay and they won't matter, but at the same time you're now telling me we should care about them? I'm happy to believe you have this figured out better in your head, but what you wrote in this thread is not clear at all, to say the least.
See I understand what you mean, but it really depends on the items we're talking about specifically. If a disco priest came to you arguing that dbw is an awesome trinket and it's his personal preference to play it, would you tell him that's it's ok, because he should go for whatever suits his personal needs?
Maybe some items are objectively better than others, and I'm more interested in arguing the principles rather than the specific case.
Also conversation = big fuss somehow ? You've said it twice now, and I still don't understand this false equivalence
You are right, the changes we're talking about would be minor. That was never my contention
Well I think that's part of the point in fact : how do we assess whether an item is indeed a 1% increase in situation A? For instance Iqui argues that the vdw10hc legs are BiS because of the 92 spirit he gains, but specifically on the 0% LoD fight as a disco priest. Compared to the Shadow T10, he loses 1 spell power and a bit of crit, but gains 92 spirit.
He justifies this, I assume, with the mana gain, yet later in his guide he mentions that he only used shadowfiend once when he could have used it twice.
That alones convinces me that he didn't really need the 92 extra spirit (let me refer you to Dundipro who argues a similar point in this very thread with more detail than I ever could). So his gains are inconsequential compared to the minor gain of 1 sp, 14 spell power and 2,6% crit of the other legs, and I'm not convinced you can argue otherwise by simply saying "it's a personal preference".
Yes, you won't always crit with your spells. But that's why we wouldn't compared one fight with setup A to one fight with setup B. We would try to compare 100 fights with setup A to100 fight with setup B, all other things being kept equal or as close to as possible. Then by doing averages we would find which setup provides slightly better results.
If it's 100 0% LoD with very similar raid setup, at which point is it still a personal preference which setup is better and not simply an objectively superior choice for LoD?
Yes of course RNG can apply, that's why if we were trying to be scientific with our statistical approach, we wouldn't just compare 2 fights but hundreds. I agree that RNG can **** you over on a particular fight (hell, what if you get grabbed by a valkyr 3 times? Surely that will reduce your hps). But typically speaking, enough repetition of an experience eliminates statistical improbabilities.
Of course it was a given that the difference between our setups would be small. But whether you personally notice it or not doesn't mean it's not there.
If instead of doing 17k dps I do 17.04k instead, while the difference is very tiny, it's still no question as to which dps is better objectively.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough about this, but let me just reaffirm that of course you need to compare situations that are comparable. I never said that one item is better than another in every possible situation you could find yourself into. You said that a choice between 2 items boils down to a personal preference whereas I argued that in a given situation, one item can be objectively better than another.
Again, there are some things that can be compared :
Blacksmith gives you 2 extra gem sockets (so for instance +40 armor penetration), whereas jewelcrafting gives you 3 unique gems (for a total of 42 armor pen I believe). In this case you can absolutely state that jewelcrafting is an objectively better profession than blacksmith, since 40<42
And there are things that cannot be compared so easily:
A passive 46 spell power enchantment on boots vs an engineering 100% movement speed increase for 5 seconds. Now it's performance vs utility, and it's anyone's guess which will be better in a given scenario.
The second case is where your subjectivity (aka personal preference) comes in. But in the first case, it's irrelevant.
Again, it depends on what's being compared. If I prefer ketchup to mustard because i find it tastier, it's a subjective statement (since it depends on my own personal experience) and cannot be proven wrong or right. But if a friend told me that he prefers to put cyanide on his sandwich rather than mustard, then I don't care that it's his personal preference : mustard is better objectively, since it doesn't kill you whereas cyanide will.
You highlighted that I made a comparison an then said "says a lot.... :D"
Glad to know you weren't insulting my intelligence but rather simply telling me I'm "just here to argue". I'm not sure most people would think that this is what you meant, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
On the comparison itself, as I explained, you made a post in which you argued that minor choices are absolutely a personal preference that "won't affect your gameplay" and "won't matter" because they are so minor. I argued that potions also have a very minor effect, so surely by your own metric they "won't affect my gameplay" and "won't matter" right? Why use them?
I argue to death why I made that comparison, you can refer to this very post to find out why
As for the "I'm just here to argue" : You said something that I didnt agree with, and so I decided to talk to you so we could have a debate about it. Yes I'm here to argue with you about something : why is that an issue? Why is that bad?
The point of a debate, or so I thought, is that (not even including the enjoyment humans can get from talking to eachother) we can maybe find a better understanding of a subject matter. Maybe we can learn and improve ourselves through this.
Besides, what exactly are you advocating for here? That no matter what someone says, even if you vehemently disagree with it, you should never address it and criticize it? I can't find it in me to be okay with that.
You argued that a guide should just be general guidelines, and when I argued that there was value in going in-depth, your reply to me was :
You established a false dichtomy, claiming that since I argue a guide doesn't have to just be general guidelines, that must mean I want "a sim for every fight, encounter and mechanic in the game". That is blatant twisting of my words, since all I advocated for from the beginning was that guides can be as in-depth as the author wants and they don't need to just be general guidelines.
By comparison you claim I twisted your words, and yet you can't be bothered to even show a quote. Surely you realize how unfair that is.
You're not insulting me, but I'm not even worthy of a response......
Again, all I want is a discussion about what you said. Why are we demonizing debates?
Well if you feel you didn't make your points well enough, to the point where they can be taken the wrong way, nothing prevents you from rephrasing them.
Btw are Nemmish, Dundipro, Mercy etc just "arguing for the sake of it" ? What is your metric for this exactly?
Because again, while I'm sorry you feel this way, this forum is a public space : whenever I post something here, I consider it normal that people would comment and criticize it. That's just a natural part of human exchange. I don't see why talking to eachother is a bad thing.
I'll ignore your "last reply " segment, since it's basically a repeat of your original post.
I thought I was arguing with you, but I guess it was with myself the whole time?
Unlike you however, I do care. That's why I posted something in the first place. I am very open to debates and arguments and discussion.
What I dislike is the general dismissive attitude some people seem to have , as in "I shan't bother to reply to you because you're not worth my time".
It's a real shame you feel the need to behave this way, but so be it I guess.
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Edited: September 28, 2020
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The Talent Tree is empty
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I might have missed a point here, but what is this arguement exactly about?
There is no talent tree linked to the guide, just a picture and explanation based on which you are free to call your own talent options.
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Wind of Northrend
This is just PURE GOLD. Try to read my original post and compare it with my last reply ONE MORE TIME please.
My whole second post was basically a repeat of my original post just with a bit more explaining, since you seem special.
Yet, somehow, you managed to miss the point both times, and to top it all, to underline the wrong things while trying to prove that I said something I never did. Gold...
You really have A LOT of free time dont you?
Let me try this way, just to see how far you are ready to go to be honest, because this right here is blowing my mind.
What I would like to know is HOW, does change in GLOVES (277ilvl) and LEGS (277ilvl), with another GLOVES and LEGS of same item level, where you GAIN (2.6 crit) over (13 spell power + 3.23% haste + 122 spirit), and/or change in profession when it comes to JC (48 sp) vs BS (46 sp) vs Enchanting (46 sp) vs Inscription (46 sp) vs Tailoring (295 sp proc), "affect your gameplay or performance"?
I can even generalise this question to every class and spec in the game to be honest, since the only difference between my DK with JC+BS and my DK with JC+Engi is the moment I use Nitro Boots and nothing else.
DPS for sure is close to exactly the same unless I get a major difference in DBW proc, or make a mistake when doing the rotation.
Oh, by the way, this, what you are doing does not seem like a big fuss off topic, on the top of it all, from your point of view?
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Fair enough, I read your original post again. You basically make 2 points in it :
1-a guide should only be a set of general guidelines, and not an extensive handbook of what to do in every situation.
2- Ppl make a big fuss over minor stuff when the truth is they don't matter : it's all subjective preference
I find these 2 points flawed since :
1- a guide can be in as much depth and detail as its author wants, as long as the points are clear and substantiated through evidence.
2- Discussion about a topic, no matter how minor, is not striclty a "big fuss" but can be a constructive and enlightning debate, and there are cases in which an minor element of your setup is not necessarily a subjective preference (cf the blacksmith vs jewelcrafting example)
Ok so in the spirit of fairness, let me look at your second post too:
1-You imply I'm moronic (or that I just debate for debate's sake) for making a comparison between 2 minor things, even though you said minor things wont affect your gameplay and don't matter
2- You imply I think guides can only be 400 pages long, even though all I argued for was that if an author wanted to go in-depth, he very much could
3- You tell me minor things are minor
4-You tell me RNG exists
And I countered this. You imply I missed the point somehow, but you don't actually attempt to tell me why : you just declare that I did. By this method, I can just claim you missed my point too : without evidence, your accusation is hollow.
Again, there is a difference between an effect being minor and the absence of effect : an increase of 1% healing affects your performance, since you performance got better by 1%. At no point did I ever imply that you would gain a million healing on your skada by swapping your legs.
What I argued is that there are cases in which chosing a setup over another will yield objectively better results (cf blacksmith vs jewelcrafting).
The difference is minor, but it's there. And you cannot simply reduce it to a subjective preference.
Well from my perspective : you said something I disagree with, and I replied to you because I thought we could have a civil conversation about it. Debates are not an inherently negative process : it's good to be challenged on your beliefs, since no one is born perfect. We can always learn and improve ourselves, and discussion is a good way to do so.
It's also bothersome to me whenever I see someone post something like what you said ("what you're arguing about doesn't matter since it's so tiny, so just do what feels best and that's it") : it always feels to me like someone trying to stop conversation and prevent people from thinking, when I feel like the process is very vertuous. I'm not saying that's what you meant with your message, but it certainly seemed that way on paper.
What you call "big fuss", I call criticism.
As for this being "off-topic" : I agree that it has little to do with this specific guide. But then again, I replied to a post that YOU made on this thread.
For the record I don't dislike you myself, I really don't know you. What I care about are the arguments.Edited: September 28, 2020
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Wind of Northrend
This guide is "in-depth" enough, you are just nit picking here and arguing for the sake of it (I dont get how your need to have a 2 essay pages long reply to me still did not prove this to you).
What is worse, you are actually nit picking my comments and things that are not related to the guide the slightest.
I still did not get an answer how does 2 less spell power, or a 295 spell power proc, or 13 less spell power, or 2.6% more crit affect your GAMEPLAY and performance?
What are you doing differently, what is being saved or killed by the change?
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This guide is honnestly irrelevant : you made what I assumed to be a general statement about all guides, not just this one.
So I replied by considering what guides in general should be, not just this one.
Yeah, by my own admission : we both agreed from the start that the changes we were discussing (1 spell power and 2.6% crit) were minor.
Our contention was that you seem to think minor changes don't matter and are just down to personal preference, whereas I think a minor improvement is not necessily a matter of personal pref but can instead be an objective improvement : it just depends on what we're comparing. Blacksmith is objectively better than herbalism, and no amount of subjectivity will change that.
Yes, I argue when I think I'm right and the person I'm debating is not. If they keep insisting that they're right, then I shall also keep arguing . I do this, you do this, a lot of people do this. And honnestly there's nothing wrong with that. Whether the subject matter is tiny or not has no infuence on this for me. But obviously it does for you.
Remember : we're all gonna die someday. In comparison of that, everything else (politics, science, school, you job, games, girls, etc) is truly unimportant.
But we can still gain something by talking about it I think.
A wise woman once told me I should never apologize for being too long ;)
But jokes aside, I'd rather make sure I tackled the points my opponents made in their entirety rather than hitting a particular word count. Feel free to disagree on this, that's how I like to do things.
Again, sorry for repeating myself but : I replied to a post YOU made on THIS thread. If I counter your points, then all I'm doing is related to your post. If you didn''t want this conversation to be unrelated to the forum thread it's under, then you should have started a different forum thread, and I'd have been more than happy to talk to you there.
I'll concede to half of your point here.
Assuming by gameplay you just refer to player choices during a specific fight, then yeah +13 spell power won't change the way you play.
I'm not even sure there would be much difference between the gameplay of a 6k disco vs a 6k5 one.
I re-read all my posts and yes, I said that minor changes affect your gameplay (in fact I think I used that word interchangeably with performance) : that was a mistake on my part. My apologies.
As for the performance though, I'll just refer you to the blacksmith vs jewelcrafting comparison. Yes +2 spell power is barely noticeable. But it is absolutely a better choice objectively to gain 2 spell power rather than not. And by comparing 1000 fights with bs vs 1000 fights with jwc and taking averages, all other things being equal, we'd get slightly higher heals with the second setup.
Minor improvement for sure, but objective improvement of your performance.
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Your general idea for a guide is completely different than my idea of a guide.
Mine has enough "in-depth" talk to explain why the talent build, bis list and many other things that are in it.
Just like this one does. Just like the one I made for example has.
What I hate is people coming to my guide asking if talent A is better than talent B or item A or profession B at any point of gearing stage or bis list.
This is why I made my first comment here, so hopefully people focus on the core of the class rather than on that last 1% which wont matter.
But If I knew I would get you here, I would not comment in the first place...
I never said anything about a random gnarly guide, or a youtube guide, my first comment was directed at people complaining about 1 item and 1 profession in this guide.
It was just one of many assumptions you made just to argue for the sake of it.
You cant be right when you are arguing imaginary things someone never said.
And no, no one will gain anything from this.
The joke is abysmal.
And you are doing that here, hitting the wrong particular words and making an argument out of nothing and completely missing my points.
Just like underlining:
"it wont affect your gameplay or performance"
and chasing that like a dog chases a car, where my whole point was that you should know how to PLAY first:
"it wont affect your gameplay or performance if you know the big guns, major talents and the rotation/priority"
since A LOT of people spend more time trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to itemisation rather than learning how to play first, after which gear changes at bis wont matter almost at all.
My initial reply was simple and to a point which I will now explain since you still cant get it:
"So, guide is simply, a foundation of a house if you will.
After that you build your own house with the bricks you buy yourself (bricks being items, professions, many other personal choices from 0 gs to 6.5k gs, that would end up being good or bad based on what you learned from the guide, from which you will grow as a player).
Focus more on the core of a class and what makes it good overall rather that couple changes in items or profession.
If you think that last item, last talent choice, or different profession will be better for your personal needs, go for it, there is no need to go in the comment section and ask for approval from someone who made the guide, just do it and see how it goes since it will make you grow as a player."
What if I had every other profession on my chars and the last one I was missing was Blacksmithing and I wanted to be able to make that belt buckle for myself.
Would I care about 2 spell power that wont affect my performance, gameplay or save/kill anyone?
No.
This is another point I tryed to make which you refuse to understand.
There are MANY other factors that are more valuable than the 2 spell power increase for people for someone to say JC is ABSOLUTE best and should be taken if you want to be a PRO PLEYUR!
No.
No one cares about 2 spell power and it wont affect anything.
Yes, 2 > 0, but it still wont affect anything.
I will repeat my question since I THINK I AM RIGHT, and YOU ARE WRONG, so I WONT ACCEPT HALF CONCEDE since I AM 100% RIGHT!
"I still did not get an answer how does 2 less spell power, or a 295 spell power proc, or 13 less spell power, or 2.6% more crit affect your GAMEPLAY and performance?
What are you doing differently, what is being saved or killed by the change?"
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Why are you talking about your guide? I never even referenced it.
Again, this guide is irrelevant. You made a broad statement about all guides, so I countered considering all guides.
Here is the bottom line : some talents are objectively better than others, and whether you personally accept that or not is unimportant.
If a disco priest told you he played with reflective shield because he likes it, would you tell him that it's ok and he should just take whatever talents feel right?
Some talents come down to personal preference, and others can be objectively compared. You keep confusing the 2.
Again, this is a 10 year old expansion that people have played and theorized over endlessly : everyone pretty much agrees on 95% of things you need to take as a setup to be a disco priest. The only remaining things, that is to say the only things that people will argue about now, are very minor things.
You're assuming people are talking about about the 1% and ignoring the core of the class, where the reality is everyone agrees on the core already and doesn't question it, since it's been proven to be optimal already.
As for the "wont matter" thing, yep you still think minor things don't matter and I do.
Instead of just repeating myself, lemme just say that if you say something inaccurate and I point out it's inaccurate, you telling me "it's minor so who cares" is not a defense. I don't care that it's tiny, you still said something inaccurate.
I don't know why you say something on a public place and expect no one to answer you.
Yeah I think you're retconning. Your oginal post related not to this guide specifically, but to all guides. Proof:
That's why you never say 'this guide" or "Nemmish's guide". Instead you say "Guides", "You don't know much about healers" and "this is a general truth, regardless of what class you play".
So no, I did not make that up : this is something you said, and I can quote you on it.
And even then you still haven't proved why talking about minor stuff is bad. You seem convinced by it, but you never explain why. So in the absence of the explanation, excuse me for not changing my behavior
That is why I make sure to quote everything you say and argue point by point. I made a mistake with the "affect your gameplay" thing, but everything else I said was on point as to why you were inaccurate with your claims.
But you are correct on one thing : it's easy to win an argument when you invent points your opponent never made.
Proving a point to be wrong, correct or a slight mix of both helps us find better foundations for our knowledge. By opposition, systematically ignoring criticism of ppl's claims by calling them "nit picks" : no gain will ever come from that from of censorship.
You said inacurate things, and I corrected you. You can call this a joke if it makes you feel better.
Aside from the "affect your gameplay" thing, I don't think I said anything inaccurate.
"Hitting the wrong particular words" : what?
"Making an argument out of nothing" : you force me to repeat myself, but you made statements that I disagreed with and I gave my reasons. Why is that "out of nothing".
"Missing my points" : Suuuuuure. Why not, at this point. Just throw that in there. It would be nice if you would show evidence of that, but I've given up on ever seeing you do that.
See here's the thing, if you tell me that 2+2 = 5, and that is why we should all be good people : I will criticize you not for the conclusion or the overall message, I will criticize the 2+2=5.
I don't care that all you meant was that you should learn to play first, you said minor things won't affect your performance, which is wrong.
And in response, you said I nit pick, I argue for argument's sake, I'm special, I'm a joke, I'm a dog chasing cars etcc : none of these responses adress the core of the issue, which is that that original statement you made is wrong.
Well we're making a lot of assumptions aren't we?
As I said, this game had been theorized over to death. 98% of the guide will be accepted as truth by this point. The only discussions to be had are about minor elements.
That does not mean a LOT of people ignore how to play first. Saying that is ridiculous.
Yeah so you repeat your points . A guide should just be general guidelines, don't talk about talents in the comments etc.
I've adressed this already.
It's fine if you want to make a blacksmith instead of a jewelcrafter, since anyone is free to do anything for any reason.
But blacksmith is an objectively inferior profession to jewelcrafting if your goal is to increase your dmg/heals.
And yeah 17k dps < 17.04k . You keep telling me this difference doesn't exist, while I argue it exists and is simply minuscule.
Ants exist, whether they're small or not. Picking jewelcrafting over blacksmith will increase your dps, even if it's small.
YES that's exactly what I think : the only important choice is your profession, rest is entirely irrelevant. That's why I play with no talents and no gear....
Please re-introduce some nuance to this.
What can I say at this point except "well I care".
Nothing you do in your life affects the galaxy, so why talk about it right?
2>0 is an objective increase, albeit minor. you keep telling me it doesn't exist, which is baffling.
I've literally adressed this in my previous point. Whether you read it or not is your problem, not mine.
That's rich, since I consider 9/10th of your points to be erroneous, malformed or nonsensical.
I read something somewhere once :
But hey, I didn't say that.
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Wind of Northrend
I also never referenced a lot of things you think I did, but yet here we are...
I took my guide for an example mainly because there is no better way to show your point than to take something as solid as that, and if how I made my own guide does not show how I feel other guides should look like, I dont know what does.
"Here is the bottom line : some talents are objectively better than others, and whether you personally accept that or not is unimportant."
Let me take a perfect example from Unholy DK talent tree for the "1%" discussion.
Last talent can be put in "Unholy Blight" talent that will give you an ~0.9% overall damage increase in a fight that has no target swaps.
Last talent can be put in "Subversion" talent that increases your critical strike chance on Scourge Strike, your highest damage output ability, by 3%.
One can argue that 3% can tip the tides when it comes to damage on fights where you switch targets especially, and that those 3% can result in more lucky crits while all procs are active and/or when you need to burst the target down, resulting in higher and more useful damage than "Unholy Blight" gives.
The issue is that Critical Strike is an RNG fiesta, meaning, those 3% might happen when you have all the trinket procs up, or it might happen when you have nothing. 3% might happen when you need to burst the target down, or it might happen when you need to chill with the dps so you dont push the boss in the next phase.
"Unholy Blight" on the other hand will almost always be a non RNG damage increase from 0.5 (constant swap) - 0.9% (single target) of overall damage just as long as you are doing the rotation right and not trying to make it look bad.
All of this still does not change that "Unholy Blight" will be a constant "1%" damage increase, while "Subversion" will be a "1%+" damage increase when you get lucky.
This is why when comparing an RNG stat to a static stat you CAN NOT say that "option A is objectively better than option B ALWAYS", since in 3% of the times it wont be. You can say that it has a greater potential in some situations, but your safe bet will always be "Unholy Blight".
You can also go for "Morbidity" or actually leave that 1 talent point unspent, and kill the targets and bosses you face with exact same speed, as if you spent that point in "Unholy Blight". There is no situation in the game where choice between "Unholy Blight" "Subversion" "Morbidity" "No talent" will matter or make a difference, so you just go for whatever you feel like going and not make a big, 2 pages long discussion about how you managed to break the meta and how your option is "objectively better". Even if it is better 100% of the times (which is not), it still wont matter and is not worth the time spent on a discussion.
By the way, the link between this example and the discussion before I made my first comment can be found here:
13 spell power, 3.2% haste and 122 spirit = "Unholy Blight"
2.6% crit = "Subversion"
I also never argued on which profession was better when it comes to Jewelcrafting vs Blacksmithing since there is a clear 2>0 difference.
When it comes to Tailoring vs JC/BS you cant make it as simple as that mainly because you cant make the Tailoring enchant proc when you need it the most.
It is ANOTHER RNG proc that can end up being awesome, or end up being wasted in a situation which everyone would survive without any heals to begin with.
If the cloak Enchant from Tailoring was an ACTIVE enchant like Engineering Gloves Haste one is for example, it would be the best by far.
If I was NOT referring to this guide the slightest I would NOT start it with:
"I don't know much about healers..."
I would say this:
"GUIDES should be just that, GUIDES."
In EVERY GUIDE ON THESE FORUMS that had any kind of discussion in it (Warlock, Ret, Rogue come first to mind for example, and I am not there with my "GENERALISED how should guides look like comment").
I also made my comment after a "big" discussion over Gloves+Legs choice and as someone else said something about Tailoring.
Someone with a working head and common sense might think, before jumping to conclusions, that I just might refer to those things.
So no, I am not retconning anything, I am just spinning in circles trying to explain what I initially said to both you and myself, since when you argue someone of your calibre, you dont even know what you think anymore, even less what you said.
With this I will end it here, since I have no intention to drag myself and try to explain my own first comment to you for the god knows what time.
As I read something somewhere:
"I've literally addressed this in my previous point. Whether you read it or not is your problem, not mine."
But I am glad you said this:
"I'm not even sure there would be much difference between the gameplay of a 6k disco vs a 6k5 one."
P.S. "I'll concede to half of your point here." you concede completely or not at all,
and we keep "arguing" to infinity and beyond, this is what you said not me.
+ Was a point AS A WHOLE not for you to butcher it like you did (and many others) as an answer to your:
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Gnimo i think you are confusing impossible events with unlikely events.
2sp definitely can make a difference although it is very unlikely.
Let me give you an example for that:
As a BiS priest, your shield is going to be able to absorb about 13706 damage on average (including Divine Aegis).
If u get +2sp then it's going to be able to absorb about 13710 damage on average (including Divine Aegis).
Let's say someone has 25000 hp and you give them a shield.
If they get damage between 38707-38709, then that +2sp made a difference.
If you dont have that +2sp they die, if u do they live.
Is is very unlikely to get that much damage exactly? Yes
Is is possible to get that much damage exactly? Absolutely
The same logic can be applied to the "13 spell power, 3.2% haste and 122 spirit" vs "2.6% crit" debate, because we already know your shield is going to absorb more on average if you choose the "2.6% crit" option.
And you can apply this logic to the Tailoring vs JC/BS debate too.
Yes it can happen that you will lack some flat sp and you won't have the proc on you so for that reason someone dies.
But don't forget that with the same logic it can happen that you will have the proc on you so you will have more sp at that moment compared to if you had JC/BS and for that reason you save someone.
So sometimes it's going to be better and sometimes it's going to be worse.
The question is: Which is going to happen more often? Is it going to be better or worse more often?
This question can be answered by taking the average value of the proc. It is equivalent to about +73 flat sp which is more than what any profession can provide. Therefore it is going to be better more times than any other profession, rather than worse.
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Wind of Northrend
One can argue that 0.01% chance of something happening is closer to impossible than to unlikely event.
I raided everything from WotLK retail progression, to Warmane bad progression, good progression guilds, 30% and 0% LoD farm kills, and I never saw anyone survive on 1% HP (or less lul).
If you find me a log in which that 2 spell power increase changed anything, I will yield.
If you want to argue that anything is possible, so is getting struck by lightning, but yet we all go outside at one point when its raining.
Also, when we were doing the Warmane speed tournament, with 30% buff and 284 meta items, and with 0% buff and 277 meta items, both times we chose to have Engineering on every raid member (every guild that participated did if I remember well), so saying that 2, 46 or X amount of spell power makes a difference is not true since extra mobility boost in clutch situations is farm more important.
Lack of spell power (once you reach 6k+ GS especially) wont result in a wipe, or in someone getting killed.
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Member
Question- what's your opinion on using Talisman of Resurgence and the one from Mimiron: Pandora’s Plea) ?
so picking up intellect over spell power for less powerful shields so they pop immediately for infest?
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Field Medic Moderator
They're good starting trinkets for the gearing process, but they aren't ones I'd bother with on Lich King. Shields not popping shouldn't be an issue.
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Member
Edit bump: 2021.07.20. Added extra information on the calculation of haste.
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