Why do people doesn't seem to understand the Utility the Disc Priests?

[Mahourai]

Discipline is one of the most vital specs in Wrath progression raiding. The ability to bring increased effective HP to the whole raid is found nowhere else in Wrath, as PW:S blanketing with Holy is not viable due to their PW:S having a CD. The biggest problem with bringing Disc to a raid is not that people don't want one, but that people who build a progression raid comp already have one, and bringing two is very bad, unlike for example bringing two resto druids or resto shamans which is fine.

[lavazza]

And lastly your point about strafing is?

The point about strafing was to illustrate the kind of players that exist on a private server. Most of them are completely oblivious on how to avoid mechanics or cheese a fight. I'm safe to affirm that you haven't done any kind of progression when the content was originally released or relevant, otherwise, you wouldn't state that discipline priests are "mandatory". Discipline priests, while multiple guilds were still trying to obtain their Light of Dawn progression (without the raid debuff), were barely used for the whole raid, in fact, they only became so popular thanks to the Lich King encounter (Infest turned them into a "must" while doing Icecrown Citadel 25 Heroic). With all things considered, you're only able to state that a discipline priest is mandatory in a raid if you're playing with worthless players. I'm sure that you'll eventually understand that if you have a strong restoration shaman or a strong restoration druid you'll always see your raid properly covered in terms of hp/s and with a proper healing efficiency.

Edit: Rdudus are the best raid healers.

Restoration shamans outperform restoration druids if properly played. Restoration shamans have more viable solutions when it comes to deliver an urgent AoE heal and, if they're really good, they can snipe heals from almost every single class or spec. Keep in mind, I ain't even considering if they're best in slot or not since that's not required for this specific point.

[Beanlord]

The point about strafing was to illustrate the kind of players that exist on a private server. Most of them are completely oblivious on how to avoid mechanics or cheese a fight. I'm safe to affirm that you haven't done any kind of progression when the content was originally released or relevant, otherwise, you wouldn't state that discipline priests are "mandatory". Discipline priests, while multiple guilds were still trying to obtain their Light of Dawn progression (without the raid debuff), were barely used for the whole raid, in fact, they only became so popular thanks to the Lich King encounter (Infest turned them into a "must" while doing Icecrown Citadel 25 Heroic). With all things considered, you're only able to state that a discipline priest is mandatory in a raid if you're playing with worthless players. I'm sure that you'll eventually understand that if you have a strong restoration shaman or a strong restoration druid you'll always see your raid properly covered in terms of hp/s and with a proper healing efficiency.



Restoration shamans, actually, outperform restoration druids if properly played. Restoration shamans have more viable solutions when it comes to deliver an urgent AoE heal and, if they're really good, they can snipe heals from almost every single class or spec. Keep in mind, I ain't even considering if they're best in slot or not since that's not required for this specific point.

I like how you've avoided the topic of Frostbolt Volley ;). But anyway,

1. Find where I said discs are mandatory.
2. No, I've not done retail progression.
3. What does that have to do with a private server that has increased leveling rate, vote shop, coin shop and has been running for such a long time that there are guilds farming end-game instances like there's no tomorrow?
4. I even agreed with Mercy that on a progression style raid discs would be worse off than the other healers.

Can you please read a bit?

[lavazza]

2. No, I've not done retail progression.
3. What does that have to do with a private server that has increased leveling rate, vote shop, coin shop and has been running for such a long time that there are guilds farming end-game instances like there's no tomorrow?

After taking a brief look at your post history and at those points that I just quoted, I have no interest in discussing any sort of topic with you. Discussing a private server mentality ain't part of my interest or worth my time.

[Beanlord]

After taking a brief look at your post history and at those points that I just quoted, I have no interest in discussing any sort of topic with you. Discussing a private server mentality ain't part of my interest or worth my time.

Hi Pyro, I've so missed you on forums. I'm glad you're sticking to your tactic of simply ignoring any argument that contradicts yours. I'm glad you're going off the thread tho, as usual you contributed just about nothing to it. HAIL RETAIL MASTER RACE

[Selaya]

hi
pls tich how2avoid infest senpai
)

[lavazza]

Hi Pyro, I've so missed you on forums. I'm glad you're sticking to your tactic of simply ignoring any argument that contradicts yours. I'm glad you're going off the thread tho, as usual you contributed just about nothing to it. :DDDDDDD yes, HAIL RETAIL MASTER RACE.

I actually do know Pyro since we used to be guild comrades and we're real life friends, but no, I'm not him. I'm completely sure that you're aware that he got banned, from these forums, for going against many of the policies and egos fed around here. If you're a honest believer that I'm Pyro, I would be glad to extend you an invitation to request a tracing in order to make sure that the results match. This isn't an argument if Retail is a master race, however, like Pyro used to remind most of you; You're discussing a topic or numbers, that were already crunched to exhaustion nine years ago. The belief that you're defending something new or relevant, is beyond any capable human being. My posts were quite on point, aligning with many of the points presented in previous posts, however, after taking in consideration the warning that I got from Pyro (since you've mentioned his name), I'm not willing to spend my time feeding a teenager. Have a great day and respect the thread!

[Sxcr3219]

You're discussing a topic or numbers, that were already crunched to exhaustion nine years ago. The belief that you're defending something new or relevant, is beyond any capable human being. My posts were quite on point, aligning with many of the points presented in previous posts, however, after taking in consideration the warning that I got from Pyro (since you've mentioned his name), I'm not willing to spend my time feeding a teenager. Have a great day and respect the thread!

Having seen a post linking frostbolt in a discussion of frostbolt volley suggests that they weren't crunched quiet to exhaustion. LOL
But damn Riko, you being the subject to be pre-warned about by the great Lord Pyro, I wish such an honor would come my way, but I doubt I would be "worthless" enough to be pre-warned about. I guess I'll go back and learn how to quote the correct spells and hopefully, one day I'll get such a mention too!

[DarkenedHue]

Discipline priests, while multiple guilds were still trying to obtain their Light of Dawn progression (without the raid debuff), were barely used for the whole raid, in fact, they only became so popular thanks to the Lich King encounter (Infest turned them into a "must" while doing Icecrown Citadel 25 Heroic).

You're discussing a topic or numbers, that were already crunched to exhaustion nine years ago.

^ LOL.

Please don't post utter rubbish if you have no idea what you're talking about. I get that you're part of some secluded circle-jerking corner of the community known for making up notoriously awful theories on how to play the game (amongst which some other gems include haste stacking on hunters), but I'm gonna give it a shot anyways.

LDW:
- Frostbolt volleys are essentially an analogue to infest in P2, not to mention the extremely welcome bubble-cushioning as a reprieve from the initial burst damage MC'd players. Lady 25hc on progression was a hectic, tactics-intense wipefest that absolutely demanded a Disc priest.

DBS:
- Disc priests immensely trivialize his Blood Power gains because Boiling Blood doesn't generate him any Blood Power if the damage is absorbed. A Disco Priest can almost completely eliminate his Blood Power gains from Boiling Blood between bubbles and forced Divine Aegis procs. Since I don't count on you being familiar with the encounter in any capacity, I'll point out that because of the design of Mark of the Fallen Champion (that DoT he casts at 100 Blood Power that generates him Blood Power), the further the longer the fight drags on, the exponentially harder it gets, because not only does he cast a fresh mark at 100 BP, but the more marks he puts out, the shorter the time until he puts out the next one too, because he's now gaining Blood Power quicker. That's why slowing his Blood Power gains at the start as much as possible is extremely critical. DBS was a hard gear-check where a Disc Priest was mandatory too.

PP:
Another extremely tight gear-check where a Disc had a significant niche. Know that Rapture talent? Know how the Mutated Abomination's resources worked? With a Disc Priest's rapture proccing on the Mutated Abomination it becomes much, much easier for the Abomination to cast more of its Regurgitated Ooze ability. P1 and P2, this allowed the Abomination to increase its dmg done to the boss, and on transition phases, it allowed the Abomination to re-cast a 2nd Regurgitated Ooze on the red and green oozes much more reliably. Now before you spew some garbage about Disc priests not being needed here if the Abom pilot knows what to do, I'd invite you to go research retail discussion on how to do the fight effectively a little more thoroughly.

Don't be the local private-server ***** who pulls steaming rubbish out of his arse and then froths in rage and declares everyone else "private server players trying to crunch numbers" when they tell you otherwise. We had that guy already and he had established a reputation for being unbelievably unintelligent, to the point people he thought of as being on good terms with him in-game cringed at the thought of being associated to him in any way. You don't need to carry on his torch.

[lavazza]

Don't be the local private-server ***** who pulls steaming rubbish out of his arse and then froths in rage and declares everyone else "private server players trying to crunch numbers" when they tell you otherwise. We had that guy already and he had established a reputation for being unbelievably unintelligent, to the point people he thought of as being on good terms with him in-game cringed at the thought of being associated to him in any way. You don't need to carry on his torch.

Hi Chestbrah,

I also remember you. I remember watching you on the late days of Aeternum and Epic, exploiting the well known bugs that professions had. Not to mention your famous "trinket dance", same dance that you called "legal" while in mid combat. I guess that I'm forced to carry the same torch as him under that field. We'll never forget those glorious moments, I'm sure. Especially, when former guild members like Sabrina, openly admited to both of us that you did exploit such mechanics because you hated to be beaten by other hunters in the guild. Oh, did I forget to mention that I was in Epic to see this happen?
I can't stop but notice that you took the time to present me your theory about discipline priests, so I'll take the time to remind you that I'm not forced to agree with you under any term. That's what makes the game so diverse in the first place. Now, thanks to that, I'm forced to ask: You're claiming that what I've mentioned is "utter rubish", however, can you provide me your retail experience in terms of progression? Since you're on it, can you also take the time to provide me the top tier guilds running instances with a Discipline Priest while in progression up to Lich King (not including the Lich King encounter, obviously)?

I remember spending multiple hours reading Pyro's posts. It's funny, because it was always this same group of people trying to defend their "innovation" in terms of theories, which, makes me wonder, why I'm not surprised to see all of you here when I jump on the boat that goes against this little "niche of experts". Regarding your concern of people cringing when they hear about Pyro, I can't stop but be amused (I'm sure you'll like to know that so does he) thanks to the fact that even after him being gone from the server for almost four months now, you're still on a witch hunt when it comes to him as a person and a player. I'm sorry but that sounds a little bit sad and, in all due honesty, it seems like you need professional help. As for people cringing about him, I'm certain that you can imagine that he's probably not even thinking about that. After all, I'm the one buying the round of beers. ;)

[Mahourai]

DBS:
- Disc priests immensely trivialize his Blood Power gains because Boiling Blood doesn't generate him any Blood Power if the damage is absorbed.

This is a bug exploit if it works here. Blood power generation being prevented through shields (of any kind, not just PW:S) was patched out.

Patch 3.3.2 (2010-01-02): Deathbringer Saurfang will no longer gain blood power from Mark of the Fallen Champion. In addition, mitigation abilities such as Power Word: Shield will no longer prevent blood power generation.

Now if you just mean retail progression, this only worked on normal, as Heroic Deathbringer Saurfang was not enabled until the same patch that removed the shields preventing blood power gains.

[lavazza]

This is a bug exploit if it works here. Blood power generation being prevented through shields (of any kind, not just PW:S) was patched out.

Patch 3.3.2 (2010-01-02): Deathbringer Saurfang will no longer gain blood power from Mark of the Fallen Champion. In addition, mitigation abilities such as Power Word: Shield will no longer prevent blood power generation.

I appreciate that you've noticed that. I refused to bring it up, otherwise, I would be carrying someone's torch.

[Mahourai]

World first comps were often very weird. Paragon brought 0 Mages or Warlocks to the world first Sindragosa Heroic, and 0 Mage to the first Lich King. Does this mean Warlock and Mage were terrible in progression? Of course not.

Also, Paragon's healing priests had Disc specs for progression on more than just Lich King. You can see them using one on Sindragosa as well, for example. Juggernaut (a world top 30 guild in ICC) used Disc during progression. So did For The Horde, the #2 guild on WoW Progress. I don't care to just go down the list and find videos where Penance is used but obviously Disc was not a worthless progression spec on fights besides Lich King.

EDIT:

Also, PW:S got an extra contribution from the Icecrown buff on retail, not sure how accurately this is documented. You'll remember this if you logged on in the first few hours of the Cataclysm prepatch that changed absorption to be correctly reported on buffs. This means that once the ICC buff starts being turned on, Disc is way more powerful than it should be.

[lavazza]

World first comps were often very weird.

Being that the principal reason why I've wrote this:

Discipline priests, while multiple guilds were still trying to obtain their Light of Dawn progression (without the raid debuff), were barely used for the whole raid, in fact, they only became so popular thanks to the Lich King encounter (Infest turned them into a "must" while doing Icecrown Citadel 25 Heroic).

I've never stated that they weren't used under any term. They were used in specific fights, however, holy priests were way more popular until the release of the Lich King encounter thanks to the Body & Soul ability. In fact, if you check videos from Tankspot, you'll notice that almost every single priest healer is playing holy instead of discipline. Discipline priests were played by a small niche of the community while compared to holy priests, statistically proven with the non-existence of Lich King.

[Mahourai]

Your initial assertion that Disc was "barely used" is at odds with plenty of high level raiding guilds running Disc, even before H LK was a factor.

Paragon and For The Horde used Disc on encounters prior to LK. So did Ensidia, ranked #3. I can't find documentation on the Taiwan/Korean guilds that come after, so I'll move past that. Premonition used one, rank #9. So did Adept, rank #10. Not sure about Blood Legion as their pre-LK videos are very ****ty. Deus Vox used one, rank #12. Method (#13) uses a Holy priest as a POV player for videos but has a Disc priest also in kills such as H Putricide. Refuge (#14) uses one. One could go on.