Greetings, community of Warmane. Hopefully not only those I regard as an issue in this post read this, but people interested in the future of the game as well and mainly, it's Player Vs. Player aspect. Let me start with this. I very much enjoy PvP. In fact, to be able to partake in it, I donated for and geared a protection warrior and have been having a blast playing it ever since... Until I noticed a certain pattern. I made the toon to play with friends and they were interrested in playing on the horde for a while (we all originally being alliance) so I moved with them to join one of the PvP guilds there. Name in particular is not important, but its last word rhymes with "barn", which would be a fitting habbitat for said fellows as well, but that's just my hate speaking. It was then when I started noticing the pattern that had been escaping me to that point. Mostly, the premades they were doing and the ones I partook in together with them. Due to the lack of PvP from the horde side, the queues for battlegrounds were instantaneous and made it extremely easy to have not 5 but up to 15 of us join at the same time.
Now most people in that guild that partook in these guild battlegrounds were much like myself - owners of fully donated and ready to play characters and sometimes - not often, but some, we would match up against a team with a likewise powerlevel... Well... Twice. In the entirety of my four day stay in that guild, we fought a team with equal strength twice. Everything else was a one sided rush, resulting with a graveyard farm (now you might be starting to figure out the name of the guild I am talking about that rhymes with barn... but idc...) On my first day on the horde side, I made 946 kills, having played barely half of it, stomping over lower geared players who just didn't stand a chance the moment they were matched against us.
To me, that took a lot of the fun in the game out. I do understand that my criteria for fun might not mirror everybody's and that some people might legitimately enjoy being an absolute menace to everybody around them but the people in their own bubble, but from a global point of view, I think my observations have drawn correct conclusions, which are the following:
- PvP is ridiculously inbalanced as is. The fact that 15 of us, geared to the teeth, managed to match up against 15 randomly gathered players with gears of various qualities is enough evidence as is. Battlegrounds have became way more gear dependant than they should be and so much so that it came to a point where I saw a warrior talk trash down to a friend of mine for being too low geared in a battleground. Friend in question was 5,400~ gear score.
- The PvP scene, as is right now, is too favouring elitists and is borderline toxic to players who want to get into it without having to spend real life currencies to do so. I myself am part of the "donor" problem and didn't understand it until just recently. The fact that I can take down any sub-24,000HP person in a battleground pressing not more than 5 buttons in succession without having to worry about the same being done to me in return now strikes me as morally wrong, so much so I look to restrain from battlegrounds. At least past my daily win, plus-minus one or two with friends occasionally.
Fortunately, both of these issues have a solution. I very much understand that this is a private server and it runs on donations more than anything and that these donations go for gear, which is not a problem, in my opinion. People have the option to get into further content of the game faster - that is okay... However, a large amount of people can't or even want to aford that and want to play Wrath as a pasttime after work and whatnot (much like how I was prior to me donating) and I see a lot of people quitting the PvP scene because of the imbalance. The solution, however, is simple and is one that already exists written in the game code.
That solution is item levels. To enter a random heroic dungeon, the system checks your average item level and checks it with the minimal such required to enter each individual dungeon of the wrath content. This means that a code is in place that sums up all of your gear and divides it to the number of available equipment slots. It also does the same for each member of your party as it runs them all through the same check before allowing you to queue as a party leader.
My suggestion is. First and foremost, disable AV enabler. This addon is beyond cancerous and then, write a few lines of code. Get the average item level of the party by dividing the summed average item levels of the members and queue them against a team with item level equal, or similar to that. A difference of up to 20-25 shouldn't be as much of an issue. Make gear in battlegrounds unable to be changed with the exception of what is currently allowed to be replaced in arenas to prevent people from entering with one average item level and getting another once in. In addition, have an item level during the time of queue act as a break to that queue to prevent people from queueing with low tier items and then getting their original high gear.
I believe that the only rational solution to the PvP issue at the moment and that it will bring nothing but more interresting and engaging battlegrounds. Right now, the reality is as it follows. In most battlegrounds, you as an individual doesn't matter. You get one of two options: you either have a premade on your side (or are a part of one) and win, or you face one and ultimately lose. Gear dictates everything, making it bordeline impossible for some people to obtain that exact same gear. I do understand that my opinion doesn't ultimately matter, but would be glad if it could be taken in consideration, not just by staff but by players as well and get discussion on the topic going. I won't play battlegrounds (or at least not with passion more than to get my daily win) until the PvP scene remains the same as it is for being against the problem feels just as toxic as being a part of it.
Kindest regards,
- Berserkyd, The Ganker, The Toxic
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Banned
Player Vs. Player
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Member
This will never be in place, because most people would start qqing on the forums and stop donating eventually. The ones disapproving this are the same ones taking advantages of this.
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Banned
In that case, another thing that could be implemented is a rating, similar to MMR, much like arena MMR but for battlegrounds, each battleground in on a different rated ILvl scale giving you different amounts of that rating and in the end of a season, they could also translate into prizes in the form of hard or unobtainable items. That way, skill will be incentivized on a equal-geared playing field.
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Forum Veteran
bg's by item level will not happen. its been suggested and denied numerous times.
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Banned
Whether it will be by item level or by a separate rating system eventually separating the people winning with higher gear than the ones losing with lower one and pairing identical ratings against each-other, in my opinion, a change has to occur. A full pve shadow priest with just a pvp trinket on should under no logical circumstance get 52 - 0 in a battleground but lo and behold, they are surrounded by four healers keeping them alive, all of course, best in slot while low geared players die to a single mind sear. And when a new player, even semi-geared one. (232-ish) dies to that, they won't say: "boy I wanna be like this" but rather: "screw this donor ****, I am out" and never step in a battleground again. Case in point, myself. Not because I am low though, but rather, feel bad for pressing myself onto such lows and find no entertainment in battlegrounds requiring barely any effort.
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Forum Veteran
more fair match ups in bg's would be lovely, the whole either getting stomped or watching others get stomped kept me from doing much pvp. i'm just not sure how they could do it that would help keep it balanced while also not making que times significantly longer.
even without bis donors we'd still have an issue, with a server thats been out for over 2 years there's bound plenty of bis/near bis players that never donated or donated very little.
i believe the reason was somewhere along the lines of "random bg's are just that, random."
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Member
Then that's just plain ******ed i'm afraid. If even Blizzard itself had to modify such aspects from patch to patch then it means the system was all but fine.
The fact that a private server is bound to a given patch doesnt mean that they can not do the same changes that blizzard did after/before said patch.
Anyway, as someone suggested, crossfaction would fix PvP @Frostwolf server at this moment it's just an afk-fest (and how can you blame?). How would that conflict with the random BGs being "random"? Or how would implementing a minimium ilvl for queue do?
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Member
I don't see the randomness in queueing up as a synced 15 man premade.
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Banned
I think a good and viable solution would be to just make the battleground queue system match premades vs premades. I don't see why this isn't done already, it's very frustrating to be in either side of the teams getting dominated. It seems every single bg is one team being dominated, nothing else. It's very dependant on healers. Maybe disallow people to change specs in bg?
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Field Medic Moderator
It's like people don't realize that farming battlegrounds is one of the gearing processes within the game. Do you honestly think taking that away is something the staff would do? Go play on Blackrock if it bothers you so much. That's what it's there for.
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Banned
It absolutely is one of the gearing processes of the game and that's why I am posing this issue. The people I regard as issues (myself included) aren't in the battleground to obtain better gear - we are already best in slot in every slot, or at worst, semi-best in slot with just one item we are still gathering coins to buy... We don't care about new gear - we go to stomp and that's ruins the player experience for anybody less geared than ourselves.
Yesterday, I played two battlegrounds with my 5,000 Gear score druid. The first was a win - complete stomp and me being or not being there didn't make a difference. The enemy team was low geared and our team was a guild premade. The second battleground was a loss with similar, but reversed, team compositions.
As for playing on Blackrock, my friends are on Icecrown, I like PvE on Icecrown and don't see a reason to do so, just because some people have decided that they have to:
- Farm 100,000 kills in a matter of 3 months.
- Sell their accounts.
- Profit.
I do understand that the server greatly profits from people doing that, but in time these people will get bored and there won't be new players coming into the pvp scene anymore because of how it is like.
What I am suggesting isn't taking away the gearing aspect of PvP but rather make it accessible and enjoyable to everybody by amtching people with similar power-levels against each other, creating interresting, skill testing (and improving) battlegrounds.Edited: May 3, 2018
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Banned
If there are BGs by item level then how do u wanna stop ppl from taking advantage of it?
Think of a fully enchanted and gemed ret paly who keeps his ilvl intentionally low to be matched up with lowies that he can farm.
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Banned
Gems and enchants are easily accessible even for lower geared people. If he keeps his item level low intentionally, he will enter the battleground with that intem level and will match versus people on a likewise power level. Now whether these people are enchanted or not is their own issue and is something they can worn on.
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Forum Veteran
This is a very good idea but it will never happen because there simply aren't enough players online to make it work.
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Forum Veteran
This, Because this addon not only makes bg's a gank fest but leaves half of them empty when they deny the queue, and it then takes several minutes to refill, in which time the enemy team already roflstomped the *3-5* poor souls on the other side.
This is a problem which has scaled more out of proportions since more people stopped enjoy bg's and don't queue more then absolute necessary while the other faction who compleately own the bg scene complains about too long queue times.
"They will never change this and that"
They will if they se it's an ongoin problem in which people keep complaining about, It dosen't matter if you personally as a member of the Warmane team don't like what your reading, if people keep ignoring your rules you gotta have to do something other then ban or silence them.
If people continue posting these topics without giving a care of what any Mod / Dev / GM has to say, don't you have to do something about it?
Yes and Warmane does exactly that, numerous times have I seen things that will "NEVER change or NEVER will we implement it" then all of the sudden it's heavily supported, I wonder why.
Feedback?Edited: May 3, 2018
