1. But the carrot-on-a-stick should be your personal fun, your fulfillment in managing to complete something or grind until you get lucky and receive the item you wanted. If you measure yourself by what other people have done or already have in a game, you're pretty much ruling yourself out of playing anything after release. If anything, you should take pride that you got something "the right way," not be bothered by the ones who took a shortcut for whatever personal reason they have.

    Also, the only instinct I'm condemning here is the one to be envious of people who aren't even competing in the same way as you, if at all. Even more so when there's no actual "prize" waiting whoever does whatever first, how someone else got their gear really shouldn't matter for people interested in the actual achievement. You know, achieve it for yourself, not for others?
    Totally agree! And that is why we should not make that achievement buyable in the shop, and let it only be achieved by working for it!

  2. Totally agree! And that is why we should not make that achievement buyable in the shop, and let it only be achieved by working for it!
    Eh, then you don't totally agree. If you did, you would care about you and your friends accomplishing things, not about how someone else did it.

  3. Obnoxious is speaking the truth. Why do any one of you care if others buy gear? Clearly you're just salty that you have to raid and do all sorts of hard stuff for it, that's the only reason I can think of lol. Sorry that I don't care about raiding (due to people on this server being terrible with loot council and just in general) and I'd rather guarantee the item for myself than rely on some group of people I barely know, who doesn't care about me at all, to gear me up SOMEDAY eventually, once everyone else has their gear first

  4. Eh, then you don't totally agree. If you did, you would care about you and your friends accomplishing things, not about how someone else did it.
    I somewhat agree with the concept, but it doesn't really play out this way. In my guild, for example, we are currently progressing through Black Temple. A few people already have some Illidan items, although we haven't defeated the Illidari Council yet. As the items are marginal and only a few people have them, I don't feel like we are cheating (at least not extensively) and I can still enjoy the content (although it still bothers me).

    This would immediately change if 3-4 people in the raid were suddenly rocking SWP gear. For me, personally, it would diminish the accomplishment and could potentially drive me away from the game. I can't force my ideals on every single guild member. We do not have that luxury in a private server with limited players.

    I understand your point in not measuring ourselves with people who don't want to, but it is way more complex than that, as the game forces you to interact with others. For this reason, anything that is completely end-game, imho, has no place in the shop. The shop should function like a catch up mechanism, it shouldn't give you access to the very best stuff.

    There is no point in saying we are only jealous. The shop clearly poses problems for players who do not want to abuse it. I understand the obvious need for it, but at the same time, the well-being of the server should be taken into account. There is a reason most private TBC servers have never allowed SWP items in the shop.

    Sorry that I don't care about raiding
    If you don't raid, your only concern should be PvP. In PvP, an even playground is more than fair. Warglaives (because they help too much) and brutal shoulders/weapons (for prestige) are the only things that you could possibly mind.

  5. I somewhat agree with the concept, but it doesn't really play out this way. In my guild, for example, we are currently progressing through Black Temple. A few people already have some Illidan items, although we haven't defeated the Illidari Council yet. As the items are marginal and only a few people have them, I don't feel like we are cheating (at least not extensively) and I can still enjoy the content (although it still bothers me).

    This would immediately change if 3-4 people in the raid were suddenly rocking SWP gear. For me, personally, it would diminish the accomplishment and could potentially drive me away from the game. I can't force my ideals on every single guild member. We do not have that luxury in a private server with limited players.

    I understand your point in not measuring ourselves with people who don't want to, but it is way more complex than that, as the game forces you to interact with others. For this reason, anything that is completely end-game, imho, has no place in the shop. The shop should function like a catch up mechanism, it shouldn't give you access to the very best stuff.
    That's a matter of your guild having rules of no one with that sort of gear joining official gearing raids, for example. There are certainly other measures that could be taken within a guild. If that would make you not have enough people to raid (and I don't think it does in general, can't say about your specific guild), it says more about people not sharing your mindset than of it being a problem that it's available, doesn't it?

    There is no point in saying we are only jealous. The shop clearly poses problems for players who do not want to abuse it.
    The very fact you call it "abusing" proves the validity of that point, though.

  6. That's a matter of your guild having rules of no one with that sort of gear joining official gearing raids, for example. There are certainly other measures that could be taken within a guild. If that would make you not have enough people to raid (and I don't think it does in general, can't say about your specific guild), it says more about people not sharing your mindset than of it being a problem that it's available, doesn't it?


    The very fact you call it "abusing" proves the validity of that point, though.
    I am so tired of people trying to teach other how to think, instead of being able to face the obvious. There is really no reasoning with you as representative of getting T6 tokens in the store.

    But lets try it again; if I hear on an extreme frequency that raiders are complaning about this, and calling it demotivating, and whatever... Should they all be teached to think like you? Cause if so I'll just make a discord post about it and let the guild know that thoughts of there members about it should be revised, since they are related to primitive mental issues.

  7. I am so tired of people trying to teach other how to think, instead of being able to face the obvious.
    That's funny, considering you are essentially saying people who would rather use coins to get equipped instead of grinding are "thinking wrong" and shouldn't have that option, that them thinking differently "demotivates" you, that they should instead think the way you do and not want items available for exchange with coins.

    But lets try it again; if I hear on an extreme frequency that raiders are complaning about this, and calling it demotivating, and whatever... Should they all be teached to think like you? Cause if so I'll just make a discord post about it and let the guild know that thoughts of there members about it should be revised, since they are related to primitive mental issues.
    They can think however they like, including by being "demotivated" because others don't think and don't play the way they do. None of it is going to change the fact the server was advertised even before opening to be going to eventually have a coin shop in the same model of Icecrown's.

  8. That's funny, considering you are essentially saying people who would rather use coins to get equipped instead of grinding are "thinking wrong" and shouldn't have that option, that them thinking differently "demotivates" you, that they should instead think the way you do and not want items available for exchange with coins.


    They can think however they like, including by being "demotivated" because others don't think and don't play the way they do. None of it is going to change the fact the server was advertised even before opening to be going to eventually have a coin shop in the same model of Icecrown's.
    Nice to know the forum moderator of Warmane doesn't care people playing on Warmane getting demotivated.

  9. Nice to know the forum moderator of Warmane doesn't care people playing on Warmane getting demotivated.
    The motivation or "demotivation" comes from you. It's not my role or my job to care if people wanting different things than what you do - things that are in line with the design of the server nonetheless - "demotivate" you simply because they exist and don't care to be restricted the same way you do, despite in no way forcing you to do the same - even more so when the "care" you expect is being told things will change to be the way you want.

  10. That's a matter of your guild having rules of no one with that sort of gear joining official gearing raids, for example. There are certainly other measures that could be taken within a guild. If that would make you not have enough people to raid (and I don't think it does in general, can't say about your specific guild), it says more about people not sharing your mindset than of it being a problem that it's available, doesn't it?
    As I mentioned, there is a spectrum of ideas. While most people in my guild are okay with buying items from previously farmed content, some would prefer everything to be purchasable and others would prefer nothing to be purchasable.
    Our guild is also not international, further restricting the available pool of players. To put it shortly, we do not have a choice. We have to go with what Warmane leaves us with.

    My point is, and was, that interaction in an online game leads to the impossibility of ignoring the people that would and will use the shop to its full extent. An argument such as "we warned you this was going to happen" has its validity, but your answers implying we should just not care, as if we were talking about a singleplayer game, do not make any sense.

    Having a shop is a necessary and accepted evil, nothing more. Even if you disagree with this, you must accept that this is what a good portion of the community believes. And again, this does not come from jealousy, but from more complex interactions which is silly to downplay.

    Coming back to the single statement that is not opinionated (can't find a proper English word for what I mean, which is "just your opinion but not necessarily an absolute truth"), "the server was advertised even before opening to be going to eventually have a coin shop in the same model of Icecrown", that is also only partially true.

    While the "original plan" was to add all SWP items to the shop, this statement was actually put into question, and I quote:

    "If you're asking if after some time, will Sunwell gear be available in the shop - Yes, that was part of the original plan. However, whether we go forward with it remains to be seen."

    As such statement doesn't imply certainty, I'm obviously going to give my feedback on what I personally believe would be positive or negative for the server and I don't see why you should downplay my feedback with "solutions" to problems that clearly do not have solutions.

  11. I was going to actually post a longer reply, but you know what? This got sillier than being bothered by what other players have. Keep holding on to that quote and waiting for the server direction to be changed.

  12. I was going to actually post a longer reply, but you know what? This got sillier than being bothered by what other players have. Keep holding on to that quote and waiting for the server direction to be changed.
    I'm not "waiting for the server direction to be changed", I'm merely giving feedback, given that there is not a 100% chance for the server direction to be what you're saying (unless you have privileged information, which you didn't say so far) and asking you not to downplay said feedback with your personal opinion as the core logic for the argument. That's something I'd accept from a random user giving his own opinion, not from a moderator.

  13. In Warmanes original schedule they probably would have added the end game gear a loooong time ago.
    They still hold it back which makes me hope that maybe they realised that a new concept is needed for TBC.
    If they don't change the concept and hold on their initial plan then I predict that this server will turn into another Neltharion or Frostwolf.
    Edited: March 7, 2019

  14. In Warmanes original schedule they probably would have added the end game gear a loooong time ago.
    They still hold it back which makes me hope that maybe they realised that a new concept is needed for TBC.
    Not really, just check the pve ladder. For swp there is only an handfull of guilds killing twins/muru/kj. Their previous policy was "Ok guys there was enough drop from this Boss so we can release the items on the shop" but here (and now) it doesnt really apply well because :
    1. Guilds that killed swp bosses (that appear on the pve ladder) all stopped raiding.
    2. There is just 1 guild doing 6/6 sometimes and some random guilds going for 2/6.
    So the point here is just that we havent yet get to the treshold of X item from boss Y dropped a lot of time so its not rare anymore.

  15. Not really, just check the pve ladder. For swp there is only an handfull of guilds killing twins/muru/kj. Their previous policy was "Ok guys there was enough drop from this Boss so we can release the items on the shop" but here (and now) it doesnt really apply well because :
    1. Guilds that killed swp bosses (that appear on the pve ladder) all stopped raiding.
    2. There is just 1 guild doing 6/6 sometimes and some random guilds going for 2/6.
    So the point here is just that we havent yet get to the treshold of X item from boss Y dropped a lot of time so its not rare anymore.
    That would explain why SWP gear is hold back.
    However, it doesn't explain why Brutal gladiator and T6 pieces from BT are also hold back for such a long time.

    I for one still have the hope that Warmane is elaborating a new concept for TBC.

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