1. For me, personally, I don't take improved lay, because I don't want to rely on a 11 min cd to keep the tank alive at any point for standards LoD farming comps
    so screw when rsham is grabbed by valks or god forbid other healers grabbed along with him and you need something extra to help keep the tank up

    Like said in the guide and I will say it again, your job as a healer is to keep people alive
    that is THE point of taking imp LoH, to keep them alive do you know how powerful that is on a tank with SR on him and healers grabbed? you are risking an insta gib on 0 buff even if your tank is perfect

    Like said in the guide and I will say it again, your job as a healer is to keep people alive, not padding any meter
    the hell does that have to do with imp LoH vs imp Conc?

    doesn't matter how you do it or with how much HPS you do
    on this we agree. too many people on warmane look at meters and think they have the best spec. like they forget RNG or that certain players such as tanks take prio on a fight such as lk so you dont go all willy nilly spamming heals at everyone

    I don't really understand what is the problem here.
    imp conc is just garbage useless talents wasted. thats the point. i dont get how you do not see that.

    I said that the amount that you get from the legs is still way to low in order to make a significant difference and that is not worth sacrificing that crit for it.
    it is a significant difference. you are playing with fire so to speak aka RNG. sometimes you might get lucky sometimes it can screw you. id rather have a smaller chance to get screwed and give up the small crit loss as its worth it.

    there is no RNG here, this comes with experience, knowing when to judge, without risking anything), which means roughly 5-6 judges per min.When you judge that often, you don't really give a dam if you miss 1 more judge than a person with legs would.
    THIS. this is completely absurd. Two things here:

    1st every LoD is different in terms of RNG (valk pick ups, people being *****s, bad defiles ect) im sorry but there is never a time where you have 5-6 free globals (maybe by phase 3 but by then its a kill unless your raid is super bad) unless you are relying on others to pick up your healing slack, while your busy judging away trying to hit something. where is there time to get 5-6 free judges? damage is constant (again minus move in on ledge possibly or phase 3 which again is lol since its a kill in 99% of guilds at that point). are you just relying on your other healers to pick up your slack or what exactly?
    My build focuses on relying less on others
    actually your build requires more relying on others rather than less idk how you cant see that. again this is like playing with fire to me idc if it hasent burned you yet or not bc even if u havent it means you are relying on your healers to basically do your job while you try to play the RNG game with ur judge buff or you ahve the best RNG ive ever seen. no thanks. to me thats just plain absurd.

    2nd how do you come up with "miss 1 more judge than a person with legs would" at? you jsut said you cast 5-6 per min. if they hit, which they have a much higher chance than you to do so, would be 1 judge a min.

    Again, I played at some point while I was gearing my 3rd hpally alt, with way more hit rating than just the legs would offer, and I still didn't notice a significate difference in how often my judge would miss.
    thats called RNG sometimes its in your favor other times its not. but you cant use that as a real argument. just bc you dint notice it (i wonder if you even actually tracked it or not somehow and compared it but i doubt it with your playstyle) thats like a shaman missing 10 haste rating which would cap LHW you wont notice it a lot but it still will be behind a GCD capped heal. granted, no one will ever probably run full cap hit on hpal but you can get a lot better chances with PSP that put it in a respectable range so you are not wasting 5-6 GCDs.

    So, no, the hit legs are simply not worth in my playstyle, even less in yours btw, since by your ideology you should judge only every 1 min or so, just to keep the haste buff up, I really don't see the value in having that hit if you are using judge that rarely, and if you are still worried that you would miss, common bro, in 1 min you could easily find a window to do more than 1 judge without risking someone's life or when you had to move and couldn't cast anyway. The are ways to play around not having hit, so therefor, I value the crit more, than the hit rating.
    read above. again, you are playing russian roulette with that playstyle.

    you are completely missing the "ideology" here like wiffing hard on it. The point is how rare you judge =more free globals. i cant find any good reason in 1min on LOD specially with phase 2 where i want to be spending globals casting a judge on lk instead of helping clear infest, stack val mace proc (if its active), precasting heals, or preparing for SR. this is even more true on 0 buff.

    The overall conclusion: This is my playstyle/ideology/build, w/e you want to call it
    honestly we have 200000 of those guides already on the forums, youtube, and twitch. you should really put that in the header of the guide name then. if not i would expect you to at least add in a lot of text explaining different reasons why this or that may be better (esp the PSP legs and RNG hit portion)

    So to put it short and simple, you clearly have different visions/opinions, which is fine. Both playstyles can clear every content/challenge out there.
    again ^ add that in then and explain it.

    My build focuses on relying less on others, so to say, and offers you solutions, to a higher variety of scenarios, in my opinion.
    i would like to know how you think that? specially without imp LoH and something like imp conc aura which is pointless. i know you have it on there in blue as optional but the problem is its really not. who in the world is pulling agro with imp RF on as a healer? sure maybe in a complete noob guild or a pug run and even then you can always cancel it. idk why you insist on gimping your healing. i think its safer to say this if i were you "My build relies more on RNG than yours" is more fitting rather than what you wrote.

    Perhaps I can improve on explaining some things better and leaving less room for wrong interpretations.
    i hope so. i really do. bc as of right now it is kind of a hot mess with the whole JoL thing as well. idk why people advocate that hpal does it i really dont. this is not 2-3 years ago. its been fixed for a long time now making it more beneficial for a ret/prot to keep it up.

    2020 has been the year of new metas for every class somehow even though nothings changed. Just weird things going on out there in the community with theorycrafting and the misinformation. although this guide has far less there are still changes that could be made to improve it, for yourself and others.
    Edited: October 11, 2020

  2. Basically these are the 2 types of talents you wanna use depends on the progress and raid needs:

    The first one are probably the best nowadays because of the fact how Devotion Aura can be improved even farther by Aura Mastery being the fact that protection paladin basically doesn't spec into Aura Mastery. On top of that the +6% healing bonus the talent provides eliminates the chance for the raid to lack the buff in case there is no Resto Druid and Protection Paladin:



    The second ones are more related to early progress while people are still not enough geared for LOD especially 0% and the need of using HoJ over HW is required:



    Chest enchant:
    The diff btw powerful stats and the mana enchant, is like +- 90 mana or so. It's not really a game breaker by any means, but sure it is viable indeed and significantly cheaper, since that can be a factor too for some players. I suppose I can add it as an alternative for the chest enchant and leaving the decision up the player.
    10 intellect:

    - 180 mana (Divine Intellect + GBOK)
    - 2SP
    - 0.07% crit = 3.2 crit raiting
    I found some formula which transfer crit into mp5s for holy paladin:

    (HLPM * 382 * 0.0002178 * 0.083333) + (HSPM * 237 * 0.0002178 * 0.083333) + (FoLPM * 92 * 0.0002178 * 0.083333) = the MP5 1 crit is worth to you for this fight

    => 0.6 mp5s


    The difference is 70 mana between these 2 enchants which for 10 mins fight translates into:

    - 0.6 mp5s (as a mana pool increasement)
    - 1.5 mp5s if Divine Plea is used on cd (in real scenario this shoudn't be a case!)
    - avg of 0.4 mp5s for Replenishment
    - avg 0.3 mp5s for Mana Tide Totem

    Total: 2.8 mp5s

    Comparasion -> 2 SP Vs 2.2 mp5s
    Conclustion: The stats difference is negligible to even be taken into consideration. In the end it's up to personal preference. Personally I also use +10 int.

    About Imp LOH vs Imp Conc Aura - No point to repeat myself cause this is not something which is about debating. I, Beanlord and other people already gave you argumets why. Just accept you are wrong. When It comes to Paladin you want to take every possible utillity which to help doing your job as most efficient as possible. Although LOH really has long cooldown it's still mostly viable for each attempt especially considering the time raid needs to return, buff and etc. There is always slack.

    RS ring:
    For real ? RS ring ? I'm not exactly sure if you mean why I didn't put it as bis instead of the ring rep or why I didn't mentioned the RS ring instead of Coiled ring, for the people who want to play dual spec and have the ring rep for retri or prot, but in both cases, uhm, MP5?, no thanks. The only reason why I didn't rank Coiled ring as bis even above the ring rep, is because the ring rep has that spell power proc, which can be even more valuable if you have Val'anyr. I know it, RS ring has higher ilvl and thus slightly higher intel and haste, but you really underestimate the need of crit apparently. I know I did say intellect > haste > crit, but I also said that these are not really set in stone and that they mostly depend on your playstyle and many other factors. A thing that I didn't mentioned I guess, is that stats weights are actually very close, in my opinion, which means even if crit is the lowest in prio from these 3, in general, it doesn't mean that is not worth anything at all. I have all the items for a holy paladin, including the RS ring and since recently I started playing retri too, I will play with Coiled Ring as a replacement for the ring rep, because of crit. In other words, although haste and intellect are important, I don't think they are worth sacrificing crit with a completely useless stat MP5, just to have slightly more intel and haste. But if you think otherwise, well, you do you, I'm not really gonna argue any further about opinions.
    Ashen finger has 10 sec duration with 60 sec cd which makes the proc worth of 47 SP (at best!!!!) since the chance for proc is not 100%. According to logs the average uptime is around 11-13% of max 16.6%. Assuming that Holy Paladin is one of those healers who basically has to cast something in terms to do healing and basically the class who lacks hots and greatly suffer from moving makes this finger to look even worst. Most of the time the proc is wasted in terms of the need of moving, disable by boss mechanic or the proc goes into completely overheal.

    Because the debate here is whether finger proc is really worth I'll do direct comparasion between both fingers to match their intellect values to 93 by using 20 int gem in ashen finger and 12SP + 10 int in RS finger.

    Ashen Finger:

    - 101 SP
    - 59 haste
    - 32 mp5s

    RS Finger:

    - 135 SP
    - 65 haste
    - 36 mp5s

    Comparision: 34 SP + 6 haste + 4 mp5s Vs 47 SP (at best!)

    Conslustion: RS finger is basically better while full BiS. On the other side Ashen finger is much more easy to obtain which makes it perfect second option. About second finger there is no debate - Rapid Acsent.

    The hit rating point
    The thing is, that if you take things out of their context, without taking the bigger picture into consideration and how things work together, you will end up not understanding some reasoning for some parts of the puzzle. First of all, I didn't say that hit rating doesn't make you miss less often at all (mathematically speaking, it obviously does), I said that the amount that you get from the legs is still way to low in order to make a significant difference and that is not worth sacrificing that crit for it. In my playstyle, I judge as often as possible (OBIOUSLY, only when I have a window to do so, without putting the tank at risk, there is no RNG here, this comes with experience, knowing when to judge, without risking anything), which means roughly 5-6 judges per min. When you judge that often, you don't really give a dam if you miss 1 more judge than a person with legs would. Again, I played at some point while I was gearing my 3rd hpally alt, with way more hit rating than just the legs would offer, and I still didn't notice a significate difference in how often my judge would miss. So, no, the hit legs are simply not worth in my playstyle, even less in yours btw, since by your ideology you should judge only every 1 min or so, just to keep the haste buff up, I really don't see the value in having that hit if you are using judge that rarely, and if you are still worried that you would miss, common bro, in 1 min you could easily find a window to do more than 1 judge without risking someone's life or when you had to move and couldn't cast anyway. The are ways to play around not having hit, so therefor, I value the crit more, than the hit rating.
    I don't know why you cont to argue about this? I personally have seen you to use them many times. You could simple say and add into your guide that you swap them depends on the need thus over the discussion whether hit or crit pants are better 5 posts ago.

    Conclustion: When you make guide you should focus on different aspects of the gameplay toward your auditorium. Basically reading this guide I have a feeling that this is not a guide but some presentation of how YOU play the game... which doesn't mean it's always correct and with the most optimizing setup and gameplay. Just accept that you are wrong for some aspects. Have a nice day!


  3. Imp conc aura vs imp loh point:
    Uhm, I'm not sure what is the problem here exactly, because I'm pretty sure I've marked both of these with the blue color in the talent section, meaning that they are purely situational. In the talent section, I explained every talent in details, so that the player can judge for himself and make the decision all by himself when he should consider changing talents and it in what situation. For me, personally, I don't take improved lay, because I don't want to rely on a 11 min cd to keep the tank alive at any point, for standards LoD farming comps, but if someone else wants to do so, go for it. Like said in the guide and I will say it again, your job as a healer is to keep people alive, not padding any meter, it doesn't matter how you do it or with how much HPS you do it, it is not something you can really quantify that easily. I think I already mentioned somewhere :D, that if you want improved lay, you should actually take 2 points out from imp conc aura, sooooooooo, again, I don't really understand what is the problem here.
    The problem is that imp. loh isn't really "situational" compared to imp conc. aura. The aura, as I've explained in my original feedback, will provide 2 specs with an extremely tiny dps improvement. You as a hpal have a responsibility to keep the raid, primarily the tanks, alive. To that end, imp. loh is much better suited and should always be taken.

    RS ring:
    For real ? RS ring ? I'm not exactly sure if you mean why I didn't put it as bis instead of the ring rep or why I didn't mentioned the RS ring instead of Coiled ring, for the people who want to play dual spec and have the ring rep for retri or prot, but in both cases, uhm, MP5?, no thanks. The only reason why I didn't rank Coiled ring as bis even above the ring rep, is because the ring rep has that spell power proc, which can be even more valuable if you have Val'anyr. I know it, RS ring has higher ilvl and thus slightly higher intel and haste, but you really underestimate the need of crit apparently. I know I did say intellect > haste > crit, but I also said that these are not really set in stone and that they mostly depend on your playstyle and many other factors. A thing that I didn't mentioned I guess, is that stats weights are actually very close, in my opinion, which means even if crit is the lowest in prio from these 3, in general, it doesn't mean that is not worth anything at all. I have all the items for a holy paladin, including the RS ring and since recently I started playing retri too, I will play with Coiled Ring as a replacement for the ring rep, because of crit.
    If that's your choice sure, I personally do not care how you in particular decide to play, but this is a guide for both new and veteran players it seems. And you stating things like

    ...useless stat MP5
    is rather disappointing. Mp5 is not useless. Mp5 isn't spirit and therefore gives you regen in combat. A lot of people like to argue the point that such small amounts of mp5 don't influence your healing. That point is egregiously wrong. Replenishment is de facto mp5, meteorite trinket gives you mp5, illumination talent can be broken down to mp5 and is done in the long-lasting hpal guide from EJ and also posted on our forums.

    The hit rating point
    The thing is, that if you take things out of their context, without taking the bigger picture into consideration and how things work together, you will end up not understanding some reasoning for some parts of the puzzle. First of all, I didn't say that hit rating doesn't make you miss less often at all (mathematically speaking, it obviously does)
    I did not take anything out of context, as stated in the original feedback I replied to things in the guide as I saw them while reading from the top to the bottom and you did say exactly that about hit rating, right here,

    "Why are the Corrupted Silverplate Leggings better than Plaguebringer's Stained Pants? Many people believe that the hit rating from the Plaguebringer's Pants is mandatory or let's say useful, that it helps your Judgement of Light to miss less often. Not true. Even with that 104 hit rating that you get, your judgement is still gonna miss almost as often as without it.".

    This is factually wrong.

    I said that the amount that you get from the legs is still way to low in order to make a significant difference and that is not worth sacrificing that crit for it.
    That is your opinion. I don't contest your choice of using them personally, I contest the notion that the hit rating doesn't decrease your chance to miss.

    In my playstyle, I judge as often as possible (OBIOUSLY, only when I have a window to do so, without putting the tank at risk, there is no RNG here, this comes with experience, knowing when to judge, without risking anything), which means roughly 5-6 judges per min. When you judge that often, you don't really give a dam if you miss 1 more judge than a person with legs would.
    This is objectively an inferior way of playing hpal as compared to letting another paladin jol instead of you. Is this a confusing concept?

    Again, I played at some point while I was gearing my 3rd hpally alt, with way more hit rating than just the legs would offer, and I still didn't notice a significate difference in how often my judge would miss.
    Anecdotes. Hit rating will reduce the chance you miss, period.

    So, no, the hit legs are simply not worth in my playstyle, even less in yours btw, since by your ideology you should judge only every 1 min or so, just to keep the haste buff up, I really don't see the value in having that hit if you are using judge that rarely
    What do you mean? I am judging therefore I have a chance to miss, ergo the hit rating is still valuable. I am both letting others judge over me, thus saving gcds to heal and having a lower chance to miss when I judge once a minute. It's a win-win.

    and if you are still worried that you would miss, common bro, in 1 min you could easily find a window to do more than 1 judge without risking someone's life or when you had to move and couldn't cast anyway. The are ways to play around not having hit, so therefor, I value the crit more, than the hit rating.
    Just because you can judge 6 times a minute, doesn't mean you should.

    The overall conclusion: This is my playstyle/ideology/build, w/e you want to call it, regarding holy paladins. I've been perfecting and using it for many years, so I'm fully confident in what I said above, as I've done everything a healer would push himself to do.
    Saying you're fully confident in what you wrote above is not good. There are factual mistakes in the guide as I have already outlined. There is a factual mistake in this reply even (mp5 being touted as useless). These things are not something you should stand behind.

    So to put it short and simple, you clearly have different visions/opinions, which is fine. Both playstyles can clear every content/challenge out there. My build focuses on relying less on others, so to say, and offers you solutions, to a higher variety of scenarios, in my opinion.
    The specs you outlined give one less minor cd for tanks and lack 6% free DR. The gearing choices give you a bigger chance to miss judgements and the playstyle explanation tells you to judge far more often than you actually need to in a real raid scenario. Maybe it's just me, but I doubt this is a "solution to a higher variety of scenarios".

    At best, I can consider adding another playstyle, the one you are describing, in the "Playstyle" section, but regarding my playstyle, I don't see anything wrong with it, sorry.
    It's not a playstyle thing that I'm critiquing your guide on. I'm making points about whether something is true, false or straight up better/worse. There's no playstyle discussion.


    Good guide bro, keep going ^^
    Sure is a lot better than yours with absurd 1900 haste setups.
    Edited: October 11, 2020

  4. ahahahhaha you speak too much but i dont lose from trash hpriest on lod with hpal ;p

  5. ahahahhaha you speak too much but i dont lose from trash hpriest on lod with hpal ;p
    Because recouns have to do with facts or healing effectiveness. Imagine living a life thinking meters are the most imporant thing.

    Edit:
    Spoiler: Show

    But in case anyone's curious, it was a disc priest (::: (funny how you can't tell the difference between holy and disc) and here's the vid,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q3x...hannel=shaos14


    Bethrezen is the name.

    Oh and just so nobody thinks of using the clip for some "hypocrisy" about jol on my part. Back then jol healing proced absorbs on target, hence why both me and zitek were alternating it.
    Edited: October 11, 2020

  6. @Beanlord

    I'm not sure if it is because of my poor choice of words or is it on your end, but anyhow, what I meant to say in the guide about hit rating from the pants and what I also tried further to clarify in the previous comments, is that it doesn't offer you that many more, not missed judgements, in other to be worth sacrificing that crit for it. I haven't done the math for it, to calculate how more judgements you would successful hit if you have the pants, I'm just saying from my experience that It didn't feel like that many, thus, not a worthy trade. For example, lets say that without the hit pants, you will successful hit 85/100 judgements on avg., for me, while I was playing with the hit pants, it felt like 90/100 successful hits on avg. AT BEST, that is a very optimistic number. As I hope you're not gonna deny the fact that even with the hit pants, you're still going to miss sometimes. - Is my point regarding the hit rating from pants clear now ? I will rephrase that part in the guide, to avoid further confusion, if that was the problem.

    1. Also, I still don't understand why you would want the hit pants when playing according to your playstyle, which is judging approx. 1min, just to keep the haste buff up. If someone else is keeping the JoL up for you and you're going to judge that rarely, why the hell you would sacrifice crit to take 104 hit rating for.
    If you ask me, you are either overestimating how much that 104 hit will do for you or you are probably underestimating how useful crit is. Here is a SS of how much Illumination can do if you have decent crit values, Link - This was on a Halion 25HC kill.

    2. I think you are clearly over-exaggerating in regards to using judge as often as possible, "because of that GCD, your tank can die". I've already clarify this part, as It was probably not obvious with my initial choice of words, but you're never going to prioritize using judge over stabilizing your tank or anyone else, when they are taking huge loads of damage, that not healing them for 1 sec, would result in them being dead. It is clear as daylight that in that scenario, you're going to wait for a better window to use judge. I'm not really sure why you try to make it like these windows that I was talking about, when you can safely judge without risking anything, they don't appear at all, are we playing on different servers or what ? There are plenty of times through-out the fights when there is little dmg going on to safely judge, or when you need to move because of a mechanic (which you cannot cast anyway, even if you want to, like a defile on you), a scenario in which you can move and cast judge at the same time, I don't see any problems in doing so. There many windows through-out a fight when you can use judge, seeing these windows just comes with experience.
    For sure, depending on many factors, sometimes you won't be able to judge that often. Personally, when I play with lower skilled players, which means they tend to do more mistakes when it comes to taking unnecessary damage, I very rarely judge more than 3 times per min, 4 at best, if I'm lucky. The ratio of have many judges you can do through-out the fight, obviously depends on many factors.

    Can I have an answer regarding points 1 and 2 please ?

    EDIT: Same thing regarding MP5, I know it's not useless, mathematically speaking if you want, but the same thing I said about hit, goes for MP5 as well, is just not worth sacrificing other and better stats for it, and therefor I called it "useless". Excuse me for not phrasing my ideas according to the way you wanted.
    Edited: October 11, 2020

  7. I personally have seen you to use them many times.
    Excuse me ? Where did this came from ? When have you ever seen me playing with the hit pants exactly, since we know each other :)) ?

    Image - These are the hit pants from my main, I've got them some years ago when nobody needed them. As you can see I didn't even bother gemming and enchanting them.

    Feel free to ask anyone in my guild or my friends, If they saw me playing with these pants.

    Although we don't get along with each other, I still expected better of you, than throwing vague lies at me.
    Edited: October 11, 2020

  8. Can I have an answer regarding points 1 and 2 please ?
    Of course.

    As I hope you're not gonna deny the fact that even with the hit pants, you're still going to miss sometimes. - Is my point regarding the hit rating from pants clear now ? I will rephrase that part in the guide, to avoid further confusion, if that was the problem.
    Why would I deny it? You're only hit capped as dranei wearing those pants, for the other races you are not. Currently that point in the guide is clearly misleading.

    1. Also, I still don't understand why you would want the hit pants when playing according to your playstyle, which is judging approx. 1min, just to keep the haste buff up. If someone else is keeping the JoL up for you and you're going to judge that rarely, why the hell you would sacrifice crit to take 104 hit rating for.
    If you ask me, you are either overestimating how much that 104 hit will do for you or you are probably underestimating how useful crit is. Here is a SS of how much Illumination can do if you have decent crit values, Link - This was on a Halion 25HC kill.
    I mentioned in my last reply that you still benefit from the hit even if you judge once a minute. The hit isn't wasted. Along with it you gain more int, haste and sp. The 4 stats combined outweight the crit.

    2. I think you are clearly over-exaggerating in regards to using judge as often as possible, "because of that GCD, your tank can die".
    I'm not overexagerating it as I didn't even state that once in the entire discussion. What I said was, and I hope I won't have to repeat it anymore, that judging once a minute as opposed to more than once a minute will give you more globals to use for healing instead of casting judgements and putting yourself in a 1.5s GCD. It should be very easy to comprehend why the approach where you don't judge more than once is better than the one where you do.

    I've already clarify this part, as It was probably not obvious with my initial choice of words, but you're never going to prioritize using judge over stabilizing your tank or anyone else, when they are taking huge loads of damage, that not healing them for 1 sec, would result in them being dead. It is clear as daylight that in that scenario, you're going to wait for a better window to use judge. I'm not really sure why you try to make it like these windows that I was talking about, when you can safely judge without risking anything, they don't appear at all, are we playing on different servers or what ? There are plenty of times through-out the fights when there is little dmg going on to safely judge, or when you need to move because of a mechanic (which you cannot cast anyway, even if you want to, like a defile on you), a scenario in which you can move and cast judge at the same time, I don't see any problems in doing so. There many windows through-out a fight when you can use judge, seeing these windows just comes with experience.
    For sure, depending on many factors, sometimes you won't be able to judge that often. Personally, when I play with lower skilled players, which means they tend to do more mistakes when it comes to taking unnecessary damage, I very rarely judge more than 3 times per min, 4 at best, if I'm lucky. The ratio of have many judges you can do through-out the fight, obviously depends on many factors.
    When to judge is an entirely different topic. It's not what I was telling you at all. I'm trying to highlight how you can play more optimally via saving gcds, not what you're talking about here.

    EDIT: Same thing regarding MP5, I know it's not useless, mathematically speaking if you want, but the same thing I said about hit, goes for MP5 as well, is just not worth sacrificing other and better stats for it, and therefor I called it "useless". Excuse me for not phrasing my ideas according to the way you wanted.
    Teamstars already broke down the ring compared to your first choice of AV. It's better than AV and if you already consider AV > crit haste ring....

  9. I mentioned in my last reply that you still benefit from the hit even if you judge once a minute. The hit isn't wasted. Along with it you gain more int, haste and sp. The 4 stats combined outweight the crit.
    Telling me, for I dunno for many times now, that hit is not entirely useless, was not what I was asking. What I was asking, is how exactly do you think missing with your judgements less often, particularly for your playstyle (which involves judgeing only to refresh the haste buff), outweighs having more crit, which means a flat increases in other areas. This has to do with the JoL point as well, mostly because you believe that within a f**ing minute, there are no clear windows when you can safely judge (these situation are EXTREMLY rare, when you really can't safely judge for an entire minute, as it depends on so many factors, it will take me 10 pages in Word to describe everything). For the 99% cases, you will see that there are windows to safely judge more writhing a minute. Again, this comes with experience as you need to learn many patterns of damage taken.

    Optimal you say? Okay... I guess having a high chance to get 4% of your mana back every time you have a clear window to judge, is not optimal at all. Who need's mana after all? Clearly not healers... - It's not like more mana = more healing or something, that is complete non sense I guess. - Better save the GCD to do 1 more holy light or something, that would result in an overheal anyway.

  10. Excuse me ? Where did this came from ? When have you ever seen me playing with the hit pants exactly, since we know each other :)) ?

    Image - These are the hit pants from my main, I've got them some years ago when nobody needed them. As you can see I didn't even bother gemming and enchanting them.

    Feel free to ask anyone in my guild or my friends, If they saw me playing with these pants.

    Although we don't get along with each other, I still expected better of you, than throwing vague lies at me.
    Actually we got along each other. I still remember when I came to help you to do your first bane 0% solo heal...sadly you didn't this day. Or we can ask Reginal about that. The time when you still did play with CTS as some kind of haste holy pala and still refused to accept some advises. And believe me this was not so long in the past. I'm pretty sure you did use hit legs on this day but I could be mistaken.
    Anyway in the end there are much more things to fix in your guide than some pants.

  11. Actually we got along each other. I still remember when I came to help you to do your first bane 0% solo heal...sadly you didn't this day. Or we can ask Reginal about that. The time when you still did play with CTS as some kind of haste holy pala and still refused to accept some advises. And believe me this was not so long in the past. I'm pretty sure you did use hit legs on this day but I could be mistaken.
    Anyway in the end there are much more things to fix in your guide than some pants.
    Oh yeah, I remember how "very useful" you where that day, which afterwards led me to think that Reginal purely asked you to come, merely because was pitting you for being alone or maybe he just wanted you to stop spamming messaging him, more than his girlfriend :D. On the other hand, we also we needed to fill the the last spot with someone anyway and since I didn't knew what kind of a person you are at that point, I said why not.

    CTS ? Rly ? Your skill with creating fictional stories is impressive. I've never used CTS more than just VDW, in fact, I was always advising people no to play haste build.

    "Still refused to accept some advises" - ha ? As far I see remember, we didn't even spoke with each other until the "drama" with Thats Hurt vs Afterlight happened. In addition, every time we spoke with each other after that point, it was never involving theory crafting debates or any sort of advise for any side :)
    Edited: October 11, 2020

  12. Oh yeah, I remember how "very useful" you where that day, which afterwards led me to think that Reginal purely asked you to come, merely because was pitting you for being alone or maybe he just wanted you to stop spamming messaging him, more than his girlfriend :D. On the other hand, we also we needed to fill the the last spot with someone anyway and since I didn't knew what kind of a person you are at that point, I said why not.

    CTS ? Rly ? Your skill with creating fictional stories is impressive. I've never used CTS more than just VDW, in fact, I was always advising people no to play haste build.

    "Still refused to accept some advises" - ha ? As far I see remember, we didn't even spoke with each other until the "drama" with Thats Hurt vs Afterlight happened. In addition, every time we spoke with each other after that point, it was never involving theory crafting debates or any sort of advise for any side :)
    Yea I was. Basically I did everything I had to do from dispelling necrotic to even casting Holy Lights to support you. Just your raid mates didnt know what is left and what is right. About your jjoke with Reginal we can make online discussion right now to see who is gf to who? Your way to be funny and show the puberity inside you is probably the way to hide some complex of not being "world first" guy. Did I already mention that you are refusing to learn? Hm... I think I did.
    If you want to convert this threat into memories better don't cause you will feel really pain by your own failures and quotes. Let's stop here. Shall we? You have guide for fixing!
    Edited: October 11, 2020

  13. Fun fact: CTS procs from Consecration making it quite useful on fights like LoD and especially ruby. Procing it on the living embers means you're gaining 861 spellpower from a global exactly when the raid starts taking the most damage (embers slapping people + inferno slapping the tank). It also has 73 more passive stats (almost 4 gems) over meteorite and it's pretty much the same value on the stats (if you're playing meteorite you're most likely gemming some haste). I don't see any reason why you would bash somebody playing CTS, you don't have to play some wacky 2k haste build to do so. I'm not saying it's better than meteorite but I don't see anything wrong with it. And regarding the mana regain loss by not having meteorite, this is the next issue I want to address:

    Everybody's talking about hit and judgement while nobody pointed out that hit is also a mana regain stat. More hit = more white hits = better mana management. In a proper raid setup with Judgements of the Pure + Light's Grace up your holy light's cast time at 1.3k haste is around 1.1 seconds. Boss swing timers are generally over 1.5 seconds and there's several mechanics with cast times (halion breath on 2 seconds, LK spawning ghouls on several second, infest casts etc). A lot of these mechanics also happen when everybody's topped up and there's no other instance of damage (for example infest casts in p2, LK isn't hitting the tank and there's no other mechanic that damages the raid // breaths in outside realm ruby when there's no adds alive - there's no other source of damage when the boss isn't attacking). Are you going to mindlessly overheal the tank or are you going to do one or two melee hits to regain some mana and time your next healing spell to land at the end of the cast? If you play 0 hit, don't auto attack and eat all the innervates you're doing something wrong.

  14. Telling me, for I dunno for many times now, that hit is not entirely useless, was not what I was asking. What I was asking, is how exactly do you think missing with your judgements less often, particularly for your playstyle (which involves judgeing only to refresh the haste buff), outweighs having more crit, which means a flat increases in other areas.
    I already explained it. Fest 25hc pants give you more int, haste and sp passively. The hit is an added bonus for when you judgement. It also influences auto-attacks that you can do between casts and NOT put yourself in a 1.5s gcd. I honestly don't know if this is hard for you or my English is poor.

    This has to do with the JoL point as well, mostly because you believe that within a f**ing minute, there are no clear windows when you can safely judge
    Again, I never stated this in all my posts. I don't know why you continue to bring this up.

    Optimal you say? Okay... I guess having a high chance to get 4% of your mana back every time you have a clear window to judge, is not optimal at all. Who need's mana after all? Clearly not healers... - It's not like more mana = more healing or something, that is complete non sense I guess. - Better save the GCD to do 1 more holy light or something, that would result in an overheal anyway.
    Yeah, it is optimal since in all those cases, as I've mentioned above, you can auto instead of judgement in those windows.

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